The Origins of Masonry ( nothing to do with building, or is it)

Many people automatically hear Masonic Lodge and think NWO, if your one of them this isn't for you.
So what of the real origins of the most well known of the ' secret societies'. How, if it all, is it linked with among others Hermeticism, Alchemy, and above all some of the greatest minds ever. That Da Vinci was part of an underground society has been much talked about recently but is the Alchemy of Da Vinci's time linked to the Rosicrucian order that Jean Cocteau was purported to be Grand Master of. They're works seem to show remarkable similarities. Are the Rosicrucians linked to the Masons as we know them? What is the connection between the Masons and John the Baptist? If there is one we can use this theme to trace the roots of the Lodges back to at least the birth of Christianity through The Priory of Sion and indeed the ultimate tale of the search for knowledge The Holy Grail. Modern Masons may do things differently, why wouldn't they, they are different beings, but it is, I feel, impossible to shake off the past completely nor is it desirable. To that end hidden in modern rituals there must be some link to the original concept of freemasonry long before it was called such. I am a long way from having an answer but am enjoying the journey enormously.
Your thoughts on the origin please.
Not on how many evil Presidents can you fit into pentagram or any other ol playground bowlocks.

I have to run so forgive me for being brief, im sure others will elaborate though.

Although difficult to trace, many claim the supposed roots of freemasonry can be traced back to the Egyptian, Cretan, Jewish, Greek, and Mithraic mysteries. A good book to read regarding this is Freemasonry and its Ancient Mystic Rites by C.W. Leadbeater.

The Ancient Mystical Order of Rosae Crocis (AMORC) claims that Da Vinci was a Rosicrucian and his work is filled with symbolism and metaphysical teachings which do illude to he having studied something of a higher order. The validity of this claim I do not personally endorse nor discredit, in my mind it is simply an interesting possibility.

The AMORC, R+C, Rose Cross Order and many other organizations that claim and use the term Rosicrucian are seperate entities from Freemasonry. An interesting note is that within masonry there is a degree called Knight Rose-Croix.

The origin of the fraternity has been debated for centuries both by Masonic and profane historians. We are unlikely to establish a definite answer, but I can sum up what I�ve discovered through my own research, which began before I became a Mason.
The oldest known Masonic documents are known as the York (or �Gothic�) Constitutions, and are dated from the beginning of the High Middle Ages. The oldest of these, called the Regius Poem, alludes to a Masonic Convention held in York, England circa 880 A.D., presided over by King Athelstan who, according to the document, �loov�d well masones an� masonery.� Whether this meeting actually occured or is a product of the unknown author�s imagination is up for debate, but we know that the York Constitutions were adopted by the official stonemason guild in the early 1300�s.
We also know that in the 17th century, the Lodges in England began �accepting� members who were not professional stonemasons. Included in this group was the antiquarian, Oxford scholar, and possible Rosicrucian Elias Ashmole. We know from his library collection that Ashmole was interested in alchemy, Hermeticism, and the occult in general, but whether or not he had a major hand in transforming the Fraternity to what it is today is also up for debate. His diaries only mention his attending Masonic functions twice, although he of course could have been more active and just didn�t write about it.
It would seem that the major transformation in Freemasonry occured in the 18th century, and this is why the Fraternity became the beacon for the Age of Enlightenment. Europe was waking up from the slumber of the dark ages, and men of intellect who no longer trusted the Church and traditional religion began to seek a place to congregate with others of like minds, where they could discuss the new philosophies and sciences that were emerging. At this time, Masonic Lodges boomed in membership, and practically all the great thinkers, scientists, and artists of the day became Freemasons. It is almost certain that at this time the rituals of the fraternity were re-written. Originally, they consisted only of instruction in stonemasonry, but the new rituals instructed initiates into the ideals of the Enlightenment. For example, the Working Tools were (and are) still presented to the Candidate during his initiation, but they began to take on the characteristics of symbols of enlightenment thought. The Level, a tool used by the stonemason to make sure his blocks are even, became a symbol of the equality of men. The trowel, used to spread mortar by the stonemason, was given to the Freemason for the purpose of �spreading brotherly love throughout the entire Brotherhood of Man�, and so on.
In 1717, four London Lodges met together and formed the first Grand Lodge, electing Most Worshipful Brother Anthony Sayer, a London lawyer, the first Grand Master. This Grand Lodge began chartering Lodges in France and in the American colonies, and the Fraternity spread throughout the western hemisphere.
After the Revolution, each individual state in the USA established its own Grand Lodge. Today in the US, there are 51 Grand Lodges, including one for the District of Columbia. Eventually, additional degrees were composed in France, which adopted Hermetic, alchemical, and Kabbalistic symbolism. It is possible that these were added to the various continental Masonic system by Brethren who had been Rosicrucians. Today, the Masonic Rosicrucian Society is a group of Brethren dedicated to researching Masonic history, philosophy, and symbolism. Our website is www.yorkrite.com...

Fiat Lvx.

Searching for The Holy Grail, is like running after a point of light in the night that keeps circling, as you keep thinking you're getting closer to it.

Na. Cease in the search for The Holy Grail! It's as invisible as the Garden of Eden.

Now what you could be searching for in the meantime folks, is, hello...yourself! First start by noticing your dirty garments. Then find a way to get them clean. There, now maybe you're a little less agitated and more comfortable with yourself.

Then! Look inside. Actually keep a vigilant eye on what's going on inside. Work it baby! And then guess what? The Holy Grail will be available for your viewing pleasure.

I don't really get the facination with masons. They are not evil and they don't run the world etc. It's just a stupid little club. I mean if it was a secret why would the meeting places have sybols on them? When I was working in a design office for a few weeks, a few guys there were masons. They got the mick taken out of them by the non-members sayings it was just a club with a funny handshake.

Anyway just my $0.02.

Ash

A couple of years ago....I was asked IF I wanted to join a local free mason group in a small town.

I asked folks WHY would I want to do this? and the basic answer was... for COMUNITY?HUMANITY......and attempting to FEEL more connected to the other members of the town............and the pot luck dinners were FUN!

Well, I passed. it SEAMED to me to just be yet ANOTHER form of other people trying to govern me.

Noone told me any esoteric secerts.....or alluded to me gaining any NEW knowledge that would TRULY help me in my living a good life..........like I said I passed.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess

Oh but RiverGoddess, you've mistaken the whole reason for joining! You must SEARCH for the truth, for knowledge. No one is going to hand it to you on a silver platter. That is why we are here at ATS, looking for our own selves that knowledge we so desire.

I hope that helps you to understand why you saw nothing magical happen when you were around.

Thanks so far,
so if we are looking at a purely historical lineage the oldest known use for the order, of whatever its title of the time, is that of the stonemasons , the knowledge of sacred geometry was important to the builders of Solomans Temple to say the least and although designed by the greatest minds of the time, somebody had to build it. And so this precious knowledge and more importantly its relevance is imparted to our stonemasons. Indeed many Cathedrals and various buildings at the time of the Templars were built with this in mind.
So what is the link between the shape of a building and the ideology of its inhabitants?
According to Baron Von Hund however the True history of the Freemasonary has nothing at all to do with stone work and as such he created his Strict Templar Observance otherwise known as The Brethren Of John The Baptist. There he is again. Can a Mason confirm for me if there is any truth in the existence of an oath to the two Johns? Or the existence of John related line markings on the floor representing the staff of John.

And as for you wonderful Samara, I think you may have a greater interest in inner space than outer and quite rightly.
Who is that enigmatic lady in the Museum.
Surely it isn't that powerful.

The Rite of Strict Observance is an oddity in Masonic history. Some scholars have claimed that the Rite was Jacobite in nature, and that its �Unknown Superior� was Prince Charles Edward Stuart, the �Young Pretender�. Today, this theory has been mostly discredited, and the Rite seems to have been based on Michael Andrew Ramsay�s infamous �Chivalric Oration�, claiming that Masonry was founded by Crusaders. Today, this Rite exists in a re-organized form, called Knights Beneficent of the Holy City, and employs Templar symbolism.
As for the Saints John, there is no oath taken to them in Freemasonry. In the USA, Lodges are dedicated to them, while in England, Lodges are dedicated to King Solomon.

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

Let's say you have learned all that wonderful knowledge that you have so well stored up neatly in your mind. Now turn it inside out, and look at it abstractly.

You talk about John the Baptist. O.k. He got his head lopped off just like Nicholas Berg. Well, J.B. is a martyr. And N.B. looks like a martyr too. So is he?

All of those masonic clubs who are following under the footsteps of J.B....well, I thought the whole point of it was because of Jesus Christ, The Son of God. Hahaha! Perhaps you are missing a Stone?

And as for you smartie-pants Smudge, I have interests where ever. Especially in advancements. And a joke or two does not cause them to fall behind.

What enigmatic lady in a museum?

Thank you very much for your most knowledgable replies, I have more than enough to be looking into for now. I am looking ultimately for a link if one exists between the adoration / worship of women and the secret societies of the dark / middle ages.
Many times the Cult of the Magdalene is associated with older Godess worship. Somewhere in the middle of this I came across links between the area most associated with Magdalene as Isis Cults, the Languedoc, and found many links to John The Baptist. This in turn has led me to The Templars and Masons.
Now however my head is spinning and I'm way off track. Its time to sit back take stock, draw some flow charts and see where I am.
I'll be Back

But before I go... The Mona Lisa, the lady in the Museum.
Who is She

You are funny :

The Origins of Masonry ( nothing to do with building, or is it)

But masonry origins are something to do with building.

First freemasons was the cathedral builders.

I dont have time or will to explain you this here and now. Do a boolean search with masonry and origins on ATS and you will find all the answers of all your questions.

The official line is that modern masonry came about in England with the formation of London lodges in the UK in the early 1700s. But I think that it is pretty obvious that it existed in Scotland at least 50 or 60 years before the stated time - the Lodge of Scoon in Edinburgh was recording minutes before the lodges in London were even formed.
It seems that the English version of events were created in response to the Civil War and that the Jacobean roots of masonry (or at least of modern masonry) could not be acknowledged due to the conflict. The Duke of Sussex seems to be responsible for re-writing a lot of the history in my opinion.

In my ritual book, there is an introduction to masonry that states that it began when the "world was very young". Knowledge was confined to a few and these few were normally teachers who travelled the continent. It states that these teachers were the operative masons who were the architects for the cathedrals and churches which sprang up in the Middle ages. although it gives no references, it claims that the early bodies of masons formed "loges" and that these comprised of EAs, FCs and MMs as our lodges are today.

My personal belief is that this probably is the way that things came about. The architects were the normally the most educated people and they would have been literate and probably would have been preaching whilst building religious sites. The question remains as to the earlier origins (if there are any) and the philosophy which arises when studying freemasonry. I believe this to be rooted in Greek philosophy and the geometry genius of people like Pythagorus and Archimedes.
I don't believe that there necessarily is a manufactured tie in, but that the work of these people and the nature of their studies meant that freemasonry naturally took up the reigns where they left off. There was a massive gap when their science and philosophy was supressed and dogma took over a lot of thinking - I believe that freemasonry filled that gap.

The Masonic lodge seems to have less purpose than one would expect. My father and grandfather are both master masons, and although both of them have a tendency to be well informed, opinionated, and paranoid on a great many subjects, I tend to doubt that they are privy to the secrets of the universe.

Masons could possibly be the Christian heirs Kabbalists. The Kabbbalah, according to one of several traditions, was imparted by God to Enoch, the first stone mason and the founder of several sciences. The Kabbalah is supposedly a witchcraft-like aspect of judaism whereby one can practice divination, magic, etc. by manipulating the principles which govern everything. I could be way off base here, but I'm telling you what I've read.

They could be an empty reflection of Kabbalists, or they could actually carry on that tradition. If they actually were ever the guardians of the secrets, it follows this path. Men were warned of the great flood since Adam. The 7th patriarch, Enoch, was the founder of much of human knowledge. Knowing the flood would come, he preserved his knowledge on two pillars, one of brick and one of stone. (By the way, enoch, whose name means very wise, probably was the actual flood survivor, as most cultures agree that the flood survivor was named wise). These Pillars were placed not far from a series of underground vaults containing great secrets. The lowest level containing the name of God. This is relevant to an Egyptian influence on Judaism, whereby knowing the name of a God gives one power over that God. The pillars were later hidden inside the huge brass or bronze columns of Solomon's temple. After the destruction of the temple they are lost to history, but perhaps were recovered and guarded by some secret order.

Another point: If the founders of masonic tradition were in fact aware of the true nature of God, it might explain why the order today is not too strictly religious- requiring only the belief in a god of some sort. To explain this point I would have to go deep into integralism and an arguement to debunk certain aspects of several major religions, but the point would essentially be that all relgions are human additions to a very simple original thiesm, which is very likely true.

Questions comments and snide remarks welcome, but if you really need to fire a shot across my bow, you should email me so i wont miss it.

OOhhh I'm glad I didn't leave when I said I was.
Mr Leveller Sir, can you give me any info about the text which contains the " ...the world was very young. " Can non Members read such texts.
I believe that there could be a link there to the travelling Troubadours who as unlikely as it seems were believed to be the only source at one time for the continuation of knowledge of all things myths etc. but most importantly Love. Including tales of Eros an anagram of Rose, one of the symbols of the Rosicrucians.
Rose Croix. And a Medievil symbol used in architecture on various cathedrals. And indeed a symbol of this country as is the red cross. Too many parallels my brain aches.
I think the stories surrounding Solomans Temple the floods and the continuation of knowledge are metaphors for the truth as opposed to actual accounts. The floods could well represent the suppression of an order where only one or a few are spared but the knowledge hidden in architecture survives. We see this all through history most notably with the extermination of the Cathars. Where to this day people are looking for their knowledge hidden somewhere around montsegur.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Smudge]

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Smudge]

Originally posted by Smudge
I am looking ultimately for a link if one exists between the adoration / worship of women and the secret societies of the dark / middle ages.
Many times the Cult of the Magdalene is associated with older Godess worship. Somewhere in the middle of this I came across links between the area most associated with Magdalene as Isis Cults, the Languedoc, and found many links to John The Baptist. This in turn has led me to The Templars and Masons.
Now however my head is spinning and I'm way off track. Its time to sit back take stock, draw some flow charts and see where I am.
I'll be Back

I am a former member of an occult society called Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.), which bases its body of divinity around the exaltation of the Feminine Divine Principle, viewed in Her several aspects as Nuit, Isis, and Babalon.
The O.T.O. was originally founded in Germany in 1899 as sort of a graduate school for Masons of the Oriental Rite of Memphis and Egyptian Rite of Mitzraim. Eventually, the prerequisite of Masonic membership was dropped, and women were admitted on an equal level with men.
In 1912, Frater Perdurabo (Aleister Crowley) was named International Grand Master and Frater Superior, taking the sacramental name Baphomet X�, as well as To Mega Therion 9�=2� A.�.A.�.. Crowley re-wrote the Order�s degree rituals to fall in line with the Thelemic religious current, and composed a Gnostic Mass to be celebrated by the Order�s religious institution, the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica (Gnostic Catholic Church). The purpose of the Church is to facilitate the recognition of the Feminine Divine Principle, represented here as the ancient Egyptian sky goddess Nuit.
Crowley�s Gnostic Mass can be read here: www.sacred-texts.com...

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

Thank you very much for your trouble.
It makes interesting reading. How common is this ideology amongst other Masonic groups, are they basically variations of this theme or are they drastically different.
And if the question isn't too personal why did you leave?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I am a former member of an occult society called Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.), which bases its body of divinity around the exaltation of the Feminine Divine Principle, viewed in Her several aspects as Nuit, Isis, and Babalon.
[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

ML,

why a former member?