Point Blank: Is there a God, why and why not?

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


Sometimes I wonder if I 'get it' also. For the past 43 years I've been wondering that. Maybe more clearly, there is no 'god' in the terms that humans have been taught. It is as alien to us as we are to an amoeba, maybe more so. I'm not going to say that I understand 'it', what 'it' is, or even what motivates 'it'. There's no definition in human terms other than where 'it' resides, 'it' is everything.

The answer is a simple one yet it eludes peoples minds because of the complexity we assume goes with the subject the answer to is there a physical omnipotent entity who created the world is no there is no physical God but there is God there is Allah, God exists within the confides of a persons mind to help make that person better, to give them hope, in reality there is nothing but ourselves we must push ourselves to reach that deity status pushing humanity forward in the first place, the evidence for this lies generally within the works of Friedrich Nietzsche now i know these works are not pure fact but they give a good argument and this is the three sages of morality
1) Pre-Moral - Human Sacrifice to appease Gods, sacrifice belongings (Goats, cattle etc.)

2) Moral Stage - The Sacrifice of our instincts for God ergo becoming feminine becoming fixated on the next life rather then the one set in front of you.

3) Extra-Moral Stage The sacrifice of God for Atheism this is when humanity is able to push itself futher when it has broken the chains of religious opression and broken through the angst of existentialism to find for himself his truth the truth of why he is here.

We can also consider Wittgensteins Anti-Realist Theorem of that God exists within the language of the commun ity for example within Christian Communities God exists and the language they use validates his existence within that community however in a scientific community the language is very different and has a reputation of being very atheistic.

My point is that instead of worrying enjoy the greatest philosophical quote to date "S**t Happens" live life to the full and if your wrong well you only have to suffer an eternity.

God exists within minds not within our "reality" and we should not attempt to take this God from these people for they are sole propiotors to how they mould their God for even though their according to Christian teaching each imagination of God will be different each interpretation of the bible do not rid the world of religion merely let those people be content with their God and the same message a applies vice versa allow us without a God who believe in ourselves and one life have a good time and life life to the full instead of the bombardment of shouts that i will burn in hell everytime i walk down the main street.

A great man once said
Everybody
Love
Everybody
That man was Will Ferell
let us leave on this note


Beausant91

reply to post by infinite


I am sorry to inform you,the qu'ran is not the inpired word of God.
The qu'ran IS the inpired word of a man!

Originally posted by reasonable
There is a God and he is a gracious, kind and just God. He even gives you a choice for your eternal soul.. to kneel before him or burn in hellfire for eternity. Only a just and gracious Lord would give us such a choice. Praise the Lord.

I love your sarcasm. Sarcasm is truly a fantastic thing hehe.
star for you.

Why does there have to be a supreme god to have 'angels' and 'devil/satan'?
Angel= good force
Devil/satan= bad force


If you take away the labels, you take away the need for a supreme god.

And for the record, I don't believe in a supreme god.





[edit on 21-9-2009 by virraszto]

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by infinite

 

I am sorry to inform you,the qu'ran is not the inpired word of God.
The qu'ran IS the inpired word of a man!

Then as is the Bible and Torah they are all three Abrahamic religions and if as a wonderful greek gentleman once his name escapes me at this time however said "Man is the measure all things" ergo Man is God qu'ran is the inspired work of God and Man beautiful, but we all know that all the holy books in the world are the words of men written by men under the belief that they were doing it for God or Allah so the Qu'ran is actually inspired by God but written by man.

reply to post by infinite


Logic isn't your forte!

Buddhism as a way of living isn't that bad, I will agree with that.

Here is some logic. If there is conscious awareness, then there must have been conscious awareness before. Why do animals attack humans? Do they recognize our love for each other? Do you think they believe we have conscious awareness? Or are animals just aware of all this and they are simple evil and do not care?

Oh, wait, no.... we kill animals for food and we don't recognize their conscious awareness. (Yes, I do eat meat). It is easier to not recognize their conscious awareness in order for us to be able to kill and eat them!

If you think even for a second that there isn't something bigger than us with a conscious awareness, you are sorely misguided and VERY lonely.

I dare you to prove a "spirit body" (as the soul is simply our flesh and blood) without proving the existence of God.

Who said that quote that a person without a soul casts no shadow? Well, duh.

And what acting force in this universe would hold together a "spirit body" free of physical form!

Prove these things, or come up with a logical theory! I will not rest until you have earned that badge of "Subject matter expert"!

how about analyzing my thoguhts.

Spirituality without god is an easy concept. When you you know(me personally thanks to entering the knowledge through my pineal gland,the crown chakra)

i mentioned the word god being a puzzle picture,and each piece that forms the picture is everyone of us,including animals. btw,animals kill us and we them becasue we get many valuable life lessons from it. This life on Earth is supposed ot be this way at this point in time. The phyisical matter isn't us, so it is all a learning ground. No such thing as evil.
All the negativity and hatred and venom in the world is part of the learning experience.We grow from it.To be challenged and overcome it.

The answer to the question is no.

because it's a personal God...and that can be anything.

It's just as valid as the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Well in my personal veiw. God is causality and reality is an infinite fractal.
That space is indeed heaven and planets are for the production of sentient life... its supposed to be hell, learning sometimes is. soooo god exists but not in the wish granting genie type, unless an alien decides to do something for you. You might call it a god. Im sure it happens. right?

Anywhoo.... All of this of course is taking the most sunny optimistic look i can have. Space may be barren with no life that hasnt already, or is in the process of eradicating itself and i am alone and destined to be forgotten.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
You are God. So, yes, there is.

Now you may be asking yourself, "If I'm God, then why don't I feel like God?"

Well, it's because God created this huge Universe and life so that he/she could play small roles (you, me, a cat, etc.) to "feel" what not being a God is like. After we die, all our experiences are returned to the source and lessons are learned, compassion gained.

When you are God, you get bored with controlling everything. So you become the controlled to switch it up.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Bingo!
We have another winner.
Congratulations on reaching the next step in human evolution. Or rather,for gaining back that tidbit of knowledge.
I don't feel so alone anymore hehe,although I never have been(since we're all ONE) but then again I am and forever will be only ALONE(one).

So I both am and am not alone. I am keeping myself company at all times it seems.

Originally posted by hardamber
The existance of pure evil convinced me when I lived in a house where witch craft had been practised. I was a nominal christian at best then. I would wake up paralyzed in the night and eventually got to where I would "know" when the evil was present. It was so hateful it was terrifying. I have never been hated like that in my life. I told my pastor about my problems and he didn't believe a house could be possessed, so I was left on my own. It's a long story, but it all came to a head one evening when "it" manifested in my kitchen like a cloud at head level. It is so hard to explain how I knew it was there. I stopped what I was doing and pointed directly at it and commanded it in Jesus name to leave. Poof! It was gone. How can the name of Jesus have any authori8ty over something like that? The thing wasn't done with me. It came back twice and I had to deal with it each time.

Fast forward a couple years after that and my faith was growing deeper and richer. I was doing house hold chores and just having a pleasant time and opened myself up to loving God with my whole heart. I was CRAVING the presense of Jesus and it was like I wasn't in the room anymore....I was with him. I have never felt such love in my life. When I came back to myself, I felt brand spanking new. I walked around for weeks just loving everyone to the fullest and for the first time I was comfortable in my own skin. I instantly developed a dislike for christian radio and christian books. I felt like they were merely a replacement for a relationship with an awesome God. Scripture became absolutely alive and I became aware of so much pride in the christians in my life. at the same time, I had the Holy Spirit working on my attitude towards others when they fall short. The whole thing was so humbling and life giving to me.

I wish everyone could have this experience and I believe it is possible. I think back to the time before this happened and it was like I was not totally alive.

I just know that I know we were created and we are loved by our creator Father more than you can ever imagine and he has a purpose for everyone of us.

Hey, withcraft is NOT pure Evil. There are about as many forms of withcraft as there are religions, and most of withcraft practitioners are actually working to PROTECT and HEAL people and places from bad influences rather than creating these. Even as a partial follower of black withcraft, I can testify from my own personal experience that even black withcraft can be used for the common good as much as wicca or "white" wizardry, or even christian priesthood as far as I'm concerned, are. It is like using violence to resolve conflicts rather than diplomacy, none is morally worse than the other (although violence gets to look quite ugly and scary sometimes), it's all a question of which of the two is the most approriate and decent given the situation.

The problem is not with withcraft, but with this sick, hypocrite and empty notion of "Good and Evil". Even christianity isn't supposed to be endorsing this dichotomy of principles. There are surely destructive and creative forces that exist, just as light and darkness, pain and joy, wellness and misery... but these are the strains that make life, and between these, there's just stuff that people do... some of this stuff is fair, some are less fair, and some are straight down terrible. Voodooism, druidism and chamanism are all practices devoted to achieving a constructive relation with Nature and the "unseen forces" of life, only the wicked among these do very freaky and harmful things, but these people are nothing else than just sickos.



[edit on 21/9/09 by Echtelion]

reply to post by Valeri


You are not the next phase of human evolution. I'm sorry to burst your bubble. One of the foundations for the the next phase would have to be modesty, which you appear to not have.

You actually sound desperate and lost. You talk as though you've assumed some amount of power over your own life. I suspect you have even less control over your own life than the average person so you've convinced yourself that you've "arrived" or are on the verge. It makes you feel better.

Delusions of grandeur. Yes.

Originally posted by ineverknew
Like everyone else out there, I'm looking for answers to my cosmic questions, and God is one of them. A lot of posts here at this great website seem to ask such things as "How literally do you take the Bible," etc. What I want to know is, do you believe there is a God, if you do, why, and if you don't, why not?

Now my definition of God is an entity that is omnipotent and omnipresent. Now, I don't mind if you think God is dead, but back it up. Feel free to explore the question of "what is God," but try to tell me...is there a God?

All relgion is a core of truth, floating in a sea of perversions.

The question is not of the creator's existence, but who you are and why your here.

reply to post by Valeri

Congratulations on reaching the next step in human evolution.

What the hell is this even supposed to mean anyhow? Evolution affects populations, not individuals. Perhaps you mean "the next step in human Lamarckism"? I don't know, and I don't care how you accomplish your ego stroking. But please don't bring evolution into it. There's enough silly misconceptions as it is without more contributions, however minute.



---------------------------------------

As for my personal belief?: I believe in a God or Gods, who are first movers (creator/s). I understand that this belief is personal and subjective, not based on evidence - and therefore cannot be argued defensibly. Yet aside from that basic precept of belief, I hold no other strong preconception of such a force, and everything positively claimed about such a being must be backed up by evidence demonstrable in the creation itself. I cherish the human ability to reason, and I feel that science and the naturalistic study of the creation/universe has done more to reveal to us our origins, know our place, and promote the better natures of mankind than all of man's collective myths and scriptures ever have.


On a secondary note, I can prove that religion promoted Gods do exist, but that those Gods (be it Allah, Vishnu, or Yahweh) are merely man-made Memes which mingle in our societies both on a personal level (the individual concepts of god) as well as the cultural level. Certain information attached to that meme can influence and shape our behaviors if one believes in that Meme's described characteristics and desires as part of their reality. If the Meme is said to favor those believers who give to charity, then occasionally some of those believers will go out of their way to help the needy more often than they normally would in order to garner favor.

So it can be said that god is within us, and greater than us. Can affect real change in our lives outside of and beyond our own initiatives, yet only appear to work through the hands of man. How god can be both omnipotent, and yet victim to even man's most common personality flaws.

But such a being is not God despite having all of those qualities. It is only a meme. A collection of information scraps that constantly changes as it flits about the tepid seas of culture and thought. In the end, it is the most powerful of beings over mankind - yet shares it's power with countless other memes - from American Idol, to Dr. Phil, to Aristotle and Captain Picard.


Ideas, memes, can ultimately I suppose be reduced down to their basest configurations of energy in a single point in time and space - thus escaping the traditional "god" definition of being dependent upon reality, rather than outside of it. Yet, the poser remains, how does one explain the power and emotion evoked by looking at Rembrandt in terms of the arrangements of atoms in the painting?

reply to post by undo


That start trek vid was a very clever response, i won't be responding to this thread, this topic has been done over and over in recent weeks and needs a rest.

reply to post by Lasheic


Well I wasn't going to post in this thread but then I read your post and gave it a star for obvious reasons.

reply to post by ineverknew


Because

Be cause

I am
This is
You are

Because there is, that's why.

reply to post by Saurus

Must there have been something first? The universe is expanding into pre-existing space...

As I understand it, the universe is just expanding. There's nothing it's expanding into that we can evidently detect.

I dunno, I just wanted to touch on this because it's an idea I had trouble grasping for awhile since I tend to think rather linearly. How can the universe continually be expanding into nothing? How can it have no real edge? And I struggle with the idea of "nothingness" beyond our universe. What are the borders of that non-existence? How would such non-existence, create existence?

Now I don't want to appear as through I'm necessarily supportive of the "God running a simulation" hypothesis, but I do think that it's an interesting mental toy to juggle in lack of other evidence.

Consider your desktop PC running a program that is rendering a spinning 3D cube 8x8x8 inches. The cube clearly has length, height, and width, and is spinning merrily on a slight tilt. Now turn off your monitor. Does that cube still exist in our reality? How can we say it had any dimensions at all, aside from those represented by streams of electrons through transistors in a CPU. The cube doesn't exist in this reality, merely the string of 1's and 0's being processed, and a representation of it displayed upon the screen - just that, a representation. Now say the inside of the cube contained a universe that eventually came to harbor life. Would the life-form in that cube know it was nothing but 1's and 0's in a simulation? If the edges of the cube represented the edges of the universe, how would the life form rationalize the concept of the absolute non-existence of anything which lay beyond the cube's bounds. What if the cube were expanding in size in relation to the universe inside of it. How could such a virtual mind in the cube understand the concept of expansion into nothingness?

And what of the origin of the cube? Where did it come from? What caused it to spring from nothingness? Would the being in the cube be able to answer these question from within the cube?

Ever considered what Pac-Man's world looked like from his perspective? How you could travel in a straight line (roughly) for eternity, and only end up right about where you began when you finished... and not having traveled a sphere?

Again, I'm not trying to promote the idea by any means, just playing with it. There's no real evidence that I am aware of suggesting such is true in regards to our reality. Yet, we do at least have somewhat of an anecdote example in the building of our own simulations which can help conceptualize the more abstract and unusual concepts we're not normally used to thinking in terms of.

From Romans 1:20 NIV Version of the Bible:

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

It appears the evidence for God is found in His creation. His signature is in everything. His design is in everything. He is the master artist.

Observe and test the design in all, and you will have your proof. His design is self evident in everything.

If you cannot see it, you are sufferring from a delusion and you are in denial.

Additionally, you are without excuse for not believing.

[edit on 21/9/09 by John Matrix]