Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

Originally posted by acidhead

.... at this moment in time there is no proof of the existance of god for me to go in that direction , if god shows himself (which im sure he wont ) i will have proof of his existance...

AH, That's why we call it faith. But that's OK, you have a lot in common with Thomas. He came to believe.

Sometimes I wonder if it makes any sense to make posts like the ones I made earlier in this thread... Because if you read them and think rationally, you would conclude that there must be something conscious existing that precedes all matter forming in the universe....

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by acidhead
god made man in his own image , read the story book

I know what's in the story book, you read the posts that I've made in this thread...

damn thats alot of reading , will do it another time and get back to you as im having a beer

Originally posted by CommonSense

Originally posted by acidhead

.... at this moment in time there is no proof of the existance of god for me to go in that direction , if god shows himself (which im sure he wont ) i will have proof of his existance...

AH, That's why we call it faith. But that's OK, you have a lot in common with Thomas. He came to believe.

you think i can be converted ha ha (evil laugh)

even if i was shown god existed , i wouldnt go to church , read the bible or anything remotely like that as im not that type of person. sorry

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by acidhead]

[edited by a moron who forgot what he was typing]

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by acidhead]

AH,
Never say never! Ya just never know when He's going to call!

even if i was shown god existed , i wouldnt go to church , read the bible or anything remotely like that as im not that type of person. sorry

That type of person?
So you think all Christians fit into your little "this type of person" box?
I am afraid that there are a lot of "types" of Christians, and that the one "type" you met in your life probably created your flawed context.
It's at least hopefull to know you have no clue what you're talking about.
I hope God does show Himself to you, because it will make you break your promise.

I think many "atheists" profess not to believe simply to attempt to avoid the responsibility that goes with believing.

Originally posted by acidhead

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by acidhead
god made man in his own image , read the story book

I know what's in the story book, you read the posts that I've made in this thread...

damn thats alot of reading , will do it another time and get back to you as im having a beer

Originally posted by CommonSense

Originally posted by acidhead

.... at this moment in time there is no proof of the existance of god for me to go in that direction , if god shows himself (which im sure he wont ) i will have proof of his existance...

AH, That's why we call it faith. But that's OK, you have a lot in common with Thomas. He came to believe.

you think i can be converted ha ha (evil laugh)

even if i was shown god existed , i wouldnt go to church , read the bible or anything remotely like that as im not that type of person. sorry

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by acidhead]

Dude, I believe in God and I don't go to church. My personal belief is that the mainstream Christians' only goal is to control the people, because they fear that the people, if left alone, won't be able to control themselves. This may seem to many people to be a VERY blasphemous thing to say, but if you think about it, and I mean THINK about it, you'll come to the same conclusion. What do all Christian denominations say? "Go. Preach the word of Christ to the masses." Well, I dunno about you, but I think that ALL have already heard, even those tribes off in the middle of BF Africa. So my current idea is that now that all have heard, why not try to get back to the main course that was laid out before us, learning. I envision this existence as a Boot Camp of sorts for the next realm, where the training here will be put into use. Just a thought.

One of the reasons that I mentioned all of that is because I don't think that the Bible is the ONLY means for us to get to know God. As a matter of fact, I think that reading it once, and then moving on with your life is just as profitable, since then you'll have a background association with who God is and what he wants you to do. That will, in turn, help you to realise what you're seeing.

Now, as you might have surmised by this point, I'm no mainstream Christian "Bible thumper". I have seen and heard all that they proclaim, and frankly, I understand where they are coming from, but at the same time, I find it interesting that they find it necessary to come save my already-been-saved soul. Just because I haven't become a member of their church, they think it's their obligation to get me. Kinda reminds me of a swap meet or something like that. "You should come with us!! NOO!! You should come with us!!" So you see, if you saw me, your first impression of me would be that I'm not a very religious person, and maybe that's true, but I'll lay you a wager that I pray to God more than most. I find that talking to him is MUCH more profitable than sitting here just reading about him.

ANYWAY, back to the train of thought. Trying to prove God's existence by using physical, scientific evidence is not going to work because he surpasses that... he IS that. And I don't know if I've mentioned this already, or if someone else did, but God having to be matter to create matter is completely false. God could just as easily be free-flowing energy that has no beginning or end. Just another thought.

Anyway, I'm done for now. Please opine, because all this took way too long to write, just to get no reply to, lol. Peace

Originally posted by AlterEgo
I think many "atheists" profess not to believe simply to attempt to avoid the responsibility that goes with believing.

"Better to have believed and lost than never to have believed at all.

Ya, I thought that was funny too.

you people who do believe just dont get it much do you?

we dont believe in god because our minds find it highly improbable that he exists. god is like father xmas , a fable , a fantasy etc , sorry if that upsets you but in my head thats what its like. no amount of telling me im going to hell , no amount of saying i can be converted etc will work - if u want me to beleive in god then give me a labotomy or something and remove the part of my brain that gives me logical reasoning

TB,

Thanks for your post. But with regard to your following statement,

"......the Bible is the ONLY means for us to get to know God. As a matter of fact, I think that reading it once, and then moving on with your life is just as profitable, since then you'll have a background association with who God is and what he wants you to do."

What I've found is that every time I read the Bible I get something different, unique and applicable to my life at that moment. I guess my only point is, sometime pick it up and read a little of it. See if it strikes you different than the first time.
CS

I find it much easier to belive in God than aliens. In my mind a world without God is a world without any purpose. I refuse to believe taht there is no God. I can find it feezible for aliens to exist but they were created by God just like us. FOr people that believe that aliens created us, well i just dont see how that is possible. I find it hard how a lot of people belive in lower spirits and spirit guides and all that stuff but cant belive in a God that created our souls.

Originally posted by CommonSense
TB,

Thanks for your post. But with regard to your following statement,

"......the Bible is the ONLY means for us to get to know God. As a matter of fact, I think that reading it once, and then moving on with your life is just as profitable, since then you'll have a background association with who God is and what he wants you to do."

What I've found is that every time I read the Bible I get something different, unique and applicable to my life at that moment. I guess my only point is, sometime pick it up and read a little of it. See if it strikes you different than the first time.
CS

Well naturally, but what I was meaning was that the basics are in that book, ONLY the basics. We have to learn over time just how to USE those basics to help us get to where we're going. And yes, I know that reading over time can bring new knowledge, because new advancements make it easier to see, so I see your point. But my experience has taught me that just relying on that book isn't going to get me anything but knowledge, and a closer relationship with God, but that doesn't help anyone but me. I want to help the world to become a better place. And to do that, I have to have REAL WORLD experience to get the gist of what was meant by what he said, see what I mean?

And acidhead, I'm not trying to convert you. You've heard about God prolly more than I have cause you don't believe, and have come to a different conclusion. That's fine. All that I ask is that you keep an open mind to such things, and not to be so close-minded as to immediately shut the possibility out of your head that a God may or may not exist. It's a shame that these mainstream Christians are pushing everyone away by using scare tactics, or just by sheerly pissing them off, but don't let that sway you from considering the possibility.

A closed mind is good for one thing, stagnation. Believe me, I was there once. Not a pretty picture. Anyway, I'm gone. Y'all have a good one. Peace.

Originally posted by Maveric
I find it much easier to belive in God than aliens. In my mind a world without God is a world without any purpose. I refuse to believe taht there is no God. I can find it feezible for aliens to exist but they were created by God just like us. FOr people that believe that aliens created us, well i just dont see how that is possible. I find it hard how a lot of people belive in lower spirits and spirit guides and all that stuff but cant belive in a God that created our souls.

Dude, there is a boatload of evidence to suggest that we were planted here by aliens, and yes, I suppose the pun was intended, heh. Just because that might be true does not change anything, however.

Originally posted by TheBorg
Dude, there is a boatload of evidence to suggest that we were planted here by aliens

Don't take other cultures religious artifacts and creation myths out of context. There's no evidence that we were "planted" anywhere.

Originally posted by Preest

Originally posted by TheBorg
Dude, there is a boatload of evidence to suggest that we were planted here by aliens

Don't take other cultures religious artifacts and creation myths out of context. There's no evidence that we were "planted" anywhere.

I'm not. Think about it for a minute. How did all of the different kinds of people come to be? Recently, there was a Chinese settlement found on the Yanghtzie River(spelling?), and they said that this site was a "hub of civilization" for the Chinese people. What bothers me is that if you take that, and piece it together with all of the other hubs, you begin to see a disturbing trend appearing. How could so many cultures be created separately on a tiny rock in the middle of nowhere? It just doesn't make any sense to me, I'm sorry.

The old artifacts do nothing but support my theory that either we came from elsewhere, or someone was here before us, and these things were left as a sign to us to get the heck off this rock before we become like them. Just a thought. And to tell me not to use ancient artifacts to support my hypotheses is kinda like asking you to not use math to show that 2+2=4. Just not plausable. Culture, I understand is easily fixed, but ancient artifacts aren't. There have been golden planes found in South America dating back to well before the time of Christ, or so my history teaches. As always, lemme know what you think.

Ask yourself - how did religion (the Jesus kind) come about, who initiated it and what are the benefits of having 2/3 of the worlds population under its spell?? Cui Bono? All fits in with a grand conspiracy for world domination.

Jesus might have existed but he was more than likely just an ordinary dude that wore a sheet and didn't shave. And why do I use that analogy?......because those are the pictures that hang on the walls of the barbershops and the homeless shelters. Are these not correct?

Who wrote your textbook and when? Do not assume to interpret the words contained within the 'good book' in a literal sense but rather as a set of clues to direct you to the real gods - those that genetically engineered us eons ago who came from the stars and who will be returning in due time!

Don't worry - I didn't overdose but only tripping on life and the knowledge that I am free from the shackles that the 'church' throws around its subjects!

Plenty of research to back up this viewpoint - google for Zacharia Sitchin and Eric Von Daniken. My opinions are just that......my opinions.

Acidhead - I just poured some mushroom tea for two - one cup's for you my friend!

You seemed to focus on Jesus. What about your belief in God?

Well, I'm back - and I had a lovely time, thanks for asking - and ready to catch up on all this.

So, in order:

Jakko, your reply neatly illustrated the impasse we've come to. You will always be able to defend your point of view, to refute any arguments which are arrayed against you, as long as you continue to pick and choose the evidence you judge "acceptable". It's okay, you're following in a great tradition of close-minded exclusionism, and I don't expect you to change. Everything you disagree with - or anything which contains an inherent contradiction which weakens your position - has either been "taken out of context" or "isn't real Christianity". I realise now that no argument I can make will make you move your position one inch, so I'll leave it to the other readers of this thread to judge the integrity, accuracy and general success of your posts. I hope you'll one day address the many pertinent questions which have been set out in this thread and others, but that will require you to accept that your position is neither rational nor logical. I don't believe the lack of evidence diminishes the validity of faith, jakko. Accept the contradictions, the inconsistencies and utter nonsense, admit them with a wry smile, and go on believing. But don't pretend the contradictions don't exist - you're merely inviting ridicule.

Okay, who's next?

Borg, I cannot contest the evidence of your personal beliefs and experiences, but I must disagree with your conclusions. I don't think they mesh science and religion at all, because they are argued from a position that accepts God as a given. I believe I have experienced the universe in the manner you suggest in your challenge, and I don't see the presence of God. In fact, the more I learn and experience, the less I believe in him. The universe is so complicated, capricious and surprising, that it doesn't suggest a creator to me - chaos is the fundamental state of nature! As I've said before, if God is responsible for the universe in which we live, then he shouldn't be worshipped, he should be condemned as a cynical, dangerously-unstable sadist.

However, I do agree with your statement that the ultimate truth can only be glimpsed by experiencing the world around us, and coming to our own judgements... but can you honestly look out of your window right now, look at your neighbourhood and your town, your country and the world at large, and tell me you see the hand of God? I'm fundamentally an optimist and a humanist, and as I look around me I see the beauty and splendour of our achievements, or our understanding and wisdom.

And finally:

Originally posted by AlterEgo
I think many "atheists" profess not to believe simply to attempt to avoid the responsibility that goes with believing.

The responsibility that goes with believing? Which responsibility would that be, Ego? The responsibility to avoid thinking about issues of ethics or morality because all your answers are conveniently laid out? The responsibility to ignore all the mysteries and complexities of science and philosophy because all your answers have been inscribed in pamphlets two millenia ago? The responsibility to ignore the evils that are done in the world by men because they are ultimately the responsibility of a big scary creature, and anyway, it's all a part of God's ineffable plan? The responsibility to lazily condemn those who believe differently to you?

Once again - believe if you will, cherish your faith and express it in any manner you see fit. But do not pretend that religion is the tough choice. Do not pretend that it's "harder" being a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew than it is being an atheist. The reason religions are so popular - - is that they make life easier. They offer simple platitudes and easy guidance and a semblance of insight that answers all the great mysteries of life and the universe.

Tough responsibility, Ego.

Is that all you can come up with StrangeLands?
I explained quite a lot in my last post, and I was looking forward to a reply that has some content, not some pathetic excuse for "ok I give up" you wrote down.
What's the matter? You can't prove me wrong? Can't prove yourself right?
Try to make a slightly better comeback than just the "you're wrong and I am not telling you why" posts.