Why was Jesus a carpenter?

Hi BadMedia--

I suppose it would be like everyone in Eastern Europe always referring to Donald Trump as Vladmir Yigred all the time just because say some of his investors happen to be Russian.

I suspect when referring to Donald Trump people should refer to, well, Donald Trump and try to make it sound as close to that name as possible.

Now...why on earth would someone with a name like R. Yehoshu bar Yosef want to be called JEEEEZUZZZZ which sounds even silly in English? I mean the Greek form of this poor man's name is ugly enough (Iesous) do we always have to mangle people's names when talking to an American and or English speaking public?

People in the west who worship foreign middle eastern gods should be fine with hearing original names of their gods without a translation (e.g. using silly periphrastics such as e.g. 'THE LORD' for the post Exilic Hebrew clan god 'Yahweh' etal.)

Clear as Lodo?





[edit on 23-9-2009 by Sigismundus]

The answer is simple, because his father was. Notice before Jesus is baptized very little is said about him in the Gospels.

That's because his full time ministry had not started yet. Although I don't know this for sure nobody does, but in theory he could have been working as a carpenter saving his money until then. Then he used all that saved money up in the next three years when he didn't work because he was too busy traveling and preaching, teaching and healing people.

But nothing much is said about Jesus prior to his baptism because nothing spectacular was happening.

Imagine
Joseph 3:10
"And Jesus built a beautiful table with 4 chairs out of precious and unique wood from the torrent valley for a family in Jerusalem, and it was well pleasing to them, so they paid him 3 silver talents for it."

[edit on 24-9-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Sigismundus


All I can say is it wouldn't matter to me. I don't feel a name is important, nor do I feel it is what someone calls that person that makes them.

I'd be more upset with people who mislead others on what I meant, rather than what they called me. And the most important thing would be if they understood and followed the truth etc.

Nearly every thread about Jesus and God I've come across, there is at least one post saying in effect, "Jesus/God/Bible is fiction so it doesn't matter". The original poster is making the assumption that Jesus A.) existed and B.) was a carpenter. If a respondent is posting, the only way to answer this question is by ALSO making the same assumptions. Otherwise, you should start your own thread since it's off topic.

On to the topic. Remember it was Mary who was selected due to her purity and dedication, not because of Joseph's occupation. If Joe were a grain harvester, there's the possibility that the thread would be called, "Why was Jesus a grain harvester?" and we'd be discussing the allegorical meanings of his profession.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
But nothing much is said about Jesus prior to his baptism because nothing spectacular was happening.

I think the book of Luke gave us great insight into what he was like growing up:

"Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." - Luke 2:41-52

To me, this is indeed spectacular. I don't know many teens who remained in obedience to their parents, growing in wisdom and in favor of God. For some reason a lot of people (believers and non-believers) seem to think he popped out of the air in his early thirties.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Imagine
Joseph 3:10
"And Jesus built a beautiful table with 4 chairs out of precious and unique wood from the torrent valley for a family in Jerusalem, and it was well pleasing to them, so they paid him 3 silver talents for it."

Hehe. The sermons would go on for an extra half-hour. I'm sure that'd go over well with the grumbling, "he's still up there talking?" Sunday morning crowd.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by saint4God]

Hi Saint4G-d--

You have a mis-translation of the 3rd canonical council approved greek gospel ('according to Luke', whoever he was, his gospel circulated without a title, and we do not even know who Theophilos was !)

You wrote: 'don't you know that I must be in my father's house' when the Greek text of the 3rd gospel states:

'But he said to them: Do you not know that I must be concerned about by father's business?'

If this Yeshua really was born in 12 BCE (when the foundations of the 2nd temple of Herod were being laid cf: 46 years this temple has been in the building and you can rebuild it in 3 days? but he spake of the temple of his body' mentioned in the 4th gospel) then the 2nd temple of Herod was still in its earlier stages of construction--say around 1 CE...

Thus 'do you not know that I should be about by father's buisness' could well indicate that his father (Yosef bar Heli or Yoseft Bar Yakkov, depending on whether you believe the 1st or 3rd council approved canonical gospel's warped genealogies) was a construction builder of some sort - which could be construed as meaning sometning like 'Why shouldn't I be learning my father's trade first hand here as the temple is being raised up ?'

Which of course also ties into the Messianic belief that the Messiah would build the temple of YHWH (cf: Zechariah 6:9 'Behold the Man ! Who is the Nazir--even the Branch [of David]--he shall re-Build the Temple of YHWH')

So again these midrashic legendary hagaddic stories about R. Yehoshua have the idea of 'building' or 'carpenter' wizzing around them...

(cf: 'the Stone which the Builders have Rejected hath become the Chief CornerStone...' the phrase that the Dead Sea Scroll copyists applied to their own Teacher of Righteousness in BC 153 and whom the earliest Christians in 1st Century Palestine attributed to THEIR teacher)-- again the link with Building something (another Messianic link passage)

Curiously, the Babylonian Talmud has an anti "Yeshua' passage: 'and40 years before the destruciton of the temple they hanged Yeshua on the tree for blasphemy and for practicing sorcery and for leading Israel astray and for worshipping a Brick Idol..' There is no mention of Yehoshua bar Yosef carrying around a brick, but the earliest church may have had a tradition about 'the stone which the builders rejected' being used by him as a symbol ('upon this Stone I shall build by Yahad', found addressed to Shimeon bar Yonah, ha Kepha ('Simon Peter') in the 1st canonical gospel ('of Matthew' whoever he was)...so more connexions to 'carpenter' and to 'buidling a Yahad' ('community', 'church') continue to be found in the gospel material without having to look very far....

[edit on 24-9-2009 by Sigismundus]

Originally posted by Sigismundus
Hi Saint4G-d--

You have a mis-translation...

Not mistranslated.

"More than 100 scholars from six English-speaking countries, as well as editors and English stylists, worked on the NIV. The scholars represented more than 20 denominations.

NIV translators work from more than 5,000 complete or partial manuscripts and papyri.

It took 10 years to complete the NIV translation. The process started in 1968 and finished in 1978. This does not include more than 10 years of planning before 1968.

The system for editing each book is one of the distinctive features of the NIV. The procedure was as follows:

Initial Translation Team
Intermediate Editorial Committee
General Editorial Committee
Stylist and Critics
Executive Committee (or Committee on Bible Translation)
Final Stylistic Review
Executive Committee's Final Reading

The NIV was created and is maintained with the mandate to accurately and faithfully translate the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic biblical texts into clearly understandable English." - www.biblica.com...

Who said Jesus was a carpenter??

Let me guess: the translators hired by King James?


The Greek word is Tekton, as in plates tectonics and as Wikipedia says:

Plate tectonics (from the Greek τέκτων; tektōn, meaning "builder" or "mason")

So he was no carpenter he was indeed a mason, like Joseph.


Still thinking about the freemasons? Well obviously they called themselves like that in reverence to the historical Jesus since they were in the same trade.

reply to post by townio


Wait did you just equate the Freemasons to historical Jesus?

reply to post by saint4God


Saint4God you should create a thread specifically on validating the legitimacy of the NIV translations. If you are so confident.

Also you said:

The scholars represented more than 20 denominations.

I do recall Wikipedia (perhaps another source) saying there is near 30,000 Christian denominations worldwide! So 20 denominations supporting the KIV hardly says anything towards impartiality

reply to post by silver tongue devil


No but since they were in the same trade they must have had a similar knowledge in what they were building, and that wasn't no barn or stable. And in the end they ended fighting against the same thing. I think Philip K Dick said it best: "The Empire never dies." I think there is some irony, otherwise if it's not intended then God must have an interesting sense of humor.

Hi Saint 4 G-d--

From your silly listing of sources you do not understand, it is quite clear that you yourself are untrained in the original languages involved (otherwise why on earth would you try and use the NIV in English ?) and obviously you are not able to read the various Koine Greek text MSS of the 3rd council approved canoncial gospel ('Luke' whoever he was), nor do you show any evidence at all of being able to understand Hebrew or Galilean Aramaic. Tsk Tsk Tsk....

'Shouldn't I be about my father's business' is the correct way to translate the following Koine Greek into modern American English :

και ειπεν προς αυτους τι οτι εζητειτε με ουκ ηδειτε οτι εν τοις του πατρος μου δει ειναι με

'and he said to them, why are you (all) looking for me? Do you not know that I should be concerned about my father's affairs?'

You can loosen that up if you want to something like ('Why would you be looking for me, when you know I should be here overseeing my father's interests?' etc. )

So, what ancient Greek text are you trying to refer to here in your bad translation of the above, exactly? Can you let me know the title, name, date, provenance and location of your source MS?

I'll admit I have not read most of the replies, but Jesus was most likely a carpenter because his father Joseph was, and you generally learned the business of your father, especially when you were the first (and possibly only) son. Also, carpentry is a respectable profession, and probably was more so 2000 years ago. (as opposed to some other professions that statements in the Bible indicate were not so respectable, like pig farmer or a person who gave out loans)

Originally posted by silver tongue devil
Saint4God you should create a thread specifically on validating the legitimacy of the NIV translations. If you are so confident.

Already been on that thread (and discussed many, many times), though I didn't create it.

Originally posted by silver tongue devil
I do recall Wikipedia (perhaps another source) saying there is near 30,000 Christian denominations worldwide!

Speaking of trusting sources, perhaps you'd missed the most recent fallacies of Wikipedia? It is after all, an editable 'encyclopedia': www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by silver tongue devil
So 20 denominations supporting the KIV hardly says anything towards impartiality

Of the 5 demonimations I'd been a part of, they have all equally agreed that this is the best translation. In talking to those in denominations I was not a part of, most of them agree it is as well. There's no dispute among believers about the NIV's accuracy, only preference of adjectives or sentence structure.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by infobrazil


He learned the trade from his father Joseph. Many young men learn from there fathers a trade, and carpentry was one of them.

Originally posted by Sigismundus
From your silly listing of sources you do not understand, it is quite clear that you yourself are untrained...

Tsk Tsk Tsk....

Why on earth would I bother trying to have a serious conversation with someone who is so condescendingly assuming themselves 'elite' or egotistically 'intellectually gifted'? I'm sorry you feel this way. Perhaps when the helium seeps through the balloon we can discuss someday. Until then I haven't the inclination for a discussion that is all air.

Alchemst7 and DragonsDemesne, I like your answers. It does not have to be complicated as many of us may suspect.


[edit on 26-9-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by infobrazil


Now if you look at the Aramaic word for carpenter, naggar, you will see that this word doesn|t just mean carpenter, but also teacher. And in the first chapter of the gospel of John, strangers greet Jesju with Rabbi this and Rabbi that. Jesju was a Rabbuni, a carpenter or builder of the mind, not a traditrional craftsman. If he was a builder he was probably not a carpenter, but rather a stone mason, simply since the houses of back then and there were almost with no exception made out of bricks and masonry.

Gday,

Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
I'll admit I have not read most of the replies, but Jesus was most likely a carpenter ...

Yup, you haven't read them.

Jesus was NOT a carpenter.


K.

reply to post by saint4God


Yes I am familiar with that scriptural account, let me be more specific then, comparatively nothing spectacular happened during Jesus early years.

There were no mass healings or miracles profound sayings or the like.

I do not want to minimize Jesus youth, but the bible says very little about Jesus after the temple incident until his baptism. That's basically 12 to 29.
Jesus would have been practicing his trade during those years.

If something really important happened it would have been put in the bible.

Edit:

Here is the Greek I don't know what you guys are talking about, but it is very black and white

strongsnumbers.com...Greek And English for Carpenter

[edit on 27-9-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

The native language of Jesju and the original language of the Gospel was Aramaic (kind of a Hebrew dialect or "sister" language), allthough nothing but a few fragments can be found today, probably since the gospel was seen as heresy by the Jewish elite and the Romans felt threatened, and both denominations persecuted the early Christians.

The Aramaic word for carpenter is often found in Rabbinical literature and Talmudian scriptures, and is transliterated into naggar in English. In the Talmoud naggar is often used to discribe a scholar or teacher, not a woodworker or a traditional builder. Comparing this with how Jesju is discribed as a rabbuni, prophet and scribe in the Gospel, using the linear and literal meaning of naggar to mean carpenter seems illogical and naive.

And according to the same rabbinical literature and the Talmud, we learn that in order to being allowed to use the title Rabbi, you should be married and have children (compare with John 1 and 2).

There is also myths and literature explaining how Jesju was married to the Magdala and that they had several children. Among them were Sarah his firstborn daughter and Jacob, his firstborn son. And it is explained how Jesju went northwards and not into the clouds when he left his disciples. The ascension is not found in the oldest MSes, but was probably added by early Catholic priests to suit the Roman demands for godliness, around the time when the Nicean summit was held. Other things we know is that the Tetragrammathon was replaced by Lord in relation to Jesju in the original Gospel, and that Mary Magdalena was the leader among the wives and females in Jesju's circles, in power of being his spouse.