Racism is for Ignorant Fools, not ATS.

I always operate under the assumption that racism, sexism, and social economic class status is always at play underneath the surface.

I don't know from a personal standpoint of what it truly feels like to say be a wealth Chinese woman. I know China's culture and Eastern Philosophy is different than what I have been primarily exposed to, I know from a physiological standpoint being a woman is different than a man.

I don’t really know how any of those factors might affect said person’s judgments, actions or perspectives, I imagine they do to some extent but I don’t know what extent because I am not a wealthy Chinese woman. So all I can do is imagine how those factors might give said person a different individual perspective, cultural and racial perspective and economic perspective, as well as national perspective.

Historically it’s been proven through religion and science to a lesser degree that we fear that which we are uncertain of. Psychologically it’s been proven that most fears are imagined and seldom manifest as people imagine them to be.

I truly believe eliminating racism requires eliminating the fear of the unknown. On Star Trek people boldly go where no person has gone before but that’s Hollywood. In real life most people are slaves to their fears.

I believe everyone and I do mean everyone is racist to some extent but only to the extent that their fears and imaginations get the best of them. Some people have a very broad comfort zone and not much or hardly anything causes them fear or to be intimidated or paranoid. Some people have a very narrow comfort zone; they become almost paralyzed by imagined outcomes when forced outside of their comfort zones based on the imagined fear of what might happen to them outside of their narrow zone of control and security.

As a business person who lives in a multi-cultural metropolis I do business and associate on friendly terms with anyone and everyone. That’s not so hard to do when all you are focused on is the color green as in the green of their money.

I am big enough and honest enough to admit I sometimes I have racist thoughts, if only and most always through stereotyping people of common cultural mindsets, national perspectives, sexual orientations, and religious persuasions if only so I can more appropriately respond and identify with them. Who taught me the virtues of this type of profiling? Only a little company called General Motors. Why? To better separate the green from all the other hues.

No offence to anyone, but I doubt anyone amongst us can claim to not be racist in some fashion at some times.

It should never cloud debate, the debate of common issues, the debate of common fears, or goals. Yet the very best way for it too, is to be dishonest with oneself and imagine that you are anyone else is not so afflicted or inclined from time to time, when fear and uncertainty, confusion and temptation get the best of them, to try to make sense in that fashion something they have failed to in any other fashion.
I love all my children and I have a bunch, but I do not love them all equally. I do try to be equally honest with everyone though, and the only thing that eliminates fear, is better information, and I don’t think any of us can have better information when any of us labor under false assumptions, even in regards to ourselves.

reply to post by SLAYER69


HAhaha, that was great ! I feel that way completely, but maybe its because of the various alien races I have encountered in my lifetime.

Some people know that bigotry and racism is simply fear, generation, geographic fear.

When looking at it from a much larger prospective, yes we are ALL the Human Race.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by RRconservative
Hating Mr. Obama's policies is not racist, and hoping he fails for the sake of the country is also not racist.

The opening post made it clear that ATS staff is intelligent enough to discern such differences.

However, racism disguised as political criticism is on the rise, and will not be tolerated.

How can you discern racism disguised as political criticism?

That's extremely subjective and that allows for political bias to dictate posts on a message board that allows the exchange of information.

As a young, black conservative, I'm trying to figure out how you or anyone will discern these things.

Was a movie about Bush being assassinated a threat to the President disguised as free speech?

How do you discern these things? I think all of this is overblown and I'm glad Obama stays away from race and acts like the President of the United States and not the "black" President of the United States.

I am a black male. I just call it like I see it, if it comes off as racist I am sorry

In today’s world it can be hard to define racism. It seems that it is never racist if a black man commits an offence against a white man, but if reversed the white man will face hate crime laws. Until we have equal justice in these areas one could assume that racism is a state sponsored affair. Maybe it is for idiots but most all practice it in some form or another. I have never met a black man who didn’t bash white folks if that’s what the conversation called for. In high school it was perfectly acceptable socially if a black student assaulted a white student, or if he wanted to steal something it was ok so long as the victim was white. This is no joke! I think there is lots more hate on the black side!

I had lots of white friends in school that I referred to as cracker this and cracker that. There was no malice in it, and was a friendly gesture that transcended the race boundaries. Its not by limiting speech that we will end racism, but by ending hate and inequalities like that above.

Also I think that each is entitled to his or hers beliefs and should be allowed to express those beliefs. The point is that there is a huge difference between a hate monger (white supremacist/Nazi/Black Panther) and a white or black person who uses racial slurs in his day to day conversations.

I once answered a post here on ATS that asked about crime. I can’t remember what it was about, but I replied “For the same reason Jamaica has the highest murder rate in the world” My post was removed because it was deemed to be racist. This was highly offensive as I only meant the gang activity. Don’t label me a racist, I may call you a cracker but it’s not racist, it’s just part of my vocabulary.



[edit on 18-9-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Azuredrake
... I call them a racial slur.....them's fighting words.

Because it gets back to my above post. You are not the racist for using names and other degrading comments. You would use them to refer to anyone in that situation. They are the racist for taking a particular slur and calling you racist for it. Think about it, when was the last time you heard a Caucasion American say the "N" word without actually saying the term the "N" word?? Only the African Americans say that word! And on that front when was the last time you heard a Caucasion American refer to our community as an "Anglo American", yet we constantly hear "African American". We are either American or not. There is no in between!

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
How can you discern racism disguised as political criticism?

This is not necessarily directed at you, but intended to be a general statement...

In my long experience with social content communities (dating back to BBSs of the 1980's) the only people who seem to be confused about "what is a racist remark" are indeed racists doing one of two things...
1. pretending ignorance/confusion on the subject.
2. attempting to inject claims of racism where there is none.

reply to post by pluckynoonez

It would be easier to watch if somebody had put proper sound on it. Even with my sound maxed it is hard to hear, and sounds crappy to boot. I will wait for the DVD at the library.

While its a good initiative, personally I think you wont solve racism by not talking about it.

Its better to counter arguments with facts. Its pretty easy too since racists dont really have any arguments.

ATS may not be the forum for such discussions though and I respect that.



[edit on 18-9-2009 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Voxel
No one on the staff seemed to care very much. You saw little action other than a few random warnings against the people who were obviously calling for genocide and other big no-no's.

I call total BS on this statement.

We did make efforts to stem the tide of hatred:

Political Baiting and Sniping on ATS

also:

The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS

Use the search titles feature with the word "hatred" to find MANY more discussions about it.


The problem is not with the management of this site it's with the membership and the overwhelming number and instances of this kind of behaviour being posted on the boards.

EVERYONE needs to realise that the staff of ATS can't do this alone.

A community effort is needed to clean up our home.
.

Does this include racism against alien races? I've always been suspicious of those darn reptilians.

Seriously though, it's great to see this. There is no place for racism in intellectual dialogue.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I would have to agree with you to a point. Yes, let them participate in and offer ideas to discussions, if they can keep their racist beliefs to themselves. I do not believe that they should be allowed to spew racist hatred anywhere.

By allowing them to participate in civilized discussions they may actually be groomed toward seeing the futility of their beliefs. I have no problem exchanging ideas with a racist, as long as the race of people is not brought into the discussion.

Unless of course we are talking about different races and how the diversity of cultures and knowledge actually strengthens us. What is to be gained by spouting racial hatred? Nothing.

Racism is very well tolerated on this forum. Just so long as the race being bashed is white and that's a fact. I can substantiate this with hundreds of posts where a commenter posts a diatribe that is clearly against "the idiot redneck neo cons from the Deep South." I love the hypocrisy here.

Oh and for the record, my grandmothers were 'mixed race'. My paternal grandmother was Choctaw and Black, my maternal grandmother was Cherokee, Irish, and Mexican. So, save the thinly veiled references to me being a bigot. My distaste for Obama and 'progressives' has nothing to do with race.

I find it ironic the way folks on here single out whites and deny that they do so. "Oh not me, I am far too evolved." Yet, time and again people get caught in the trap of assuming they "know" everything about a person just because of his or her view on a particular issue. Case in point, I am a redneck livin' in the hills, but I am supportive of gay marriage! I don't see anything wrong with it, it's just a damned piece of paper.

See, and I guarantee someone who has read only the first lines of this post will turn it over to a moderator to be deleted or censored! There should be no such thing as 'hate speech' in a truly free society.

Why not have an open forum for racists. Would love to debate them on the issue.

Might even change a mind or two.

Originally posted by Cuhail

It's going to be tough, Skep. Some people are raised to think this way.
Others, like you and I realize that hating certain types of people is much harder than being annoyed by all of the people! LOL
Good Luck ATS with this silly, stupid issue!

Cuhail

And some people just do it to get a rise out of another member or members.
Good luck to the staff in sorting all of this out in the future threads. Im sure you guys already get a ton of U2U's/Complaints over these types of threads and im sure some of the complaints are trivial.
Ive seen first hand how some members will jump on the "your a racist" label at when they see these words in the same sentence. "Israel Evil" or "Obama Evil/Sucks/Socialist/anything else thats negative"
"

i was grown and meant to hate gypsieas and muslims,but i just dont care,if theyr "good""inteligent""polite" people who wont stab you in the back they are my brothers as well ^^ sure racism is pretty stupid,whats the difference between a black man, ajapanese man,muslim,jew..etc.
the REAL PROBLEM is REVERSE RACISM!
1 when a gypsie tryes to rob you,armed assault
2 why jews get all the high paying jobs and think only for money?
3 why armenias are like jews and they all gather together and the girls always breed with theyr kind,but theyr man can take our bulgarian women?the turkish also do this!
actualy here in bulgaria its pretty stupid,a black man comes and gets an awesome job as a dance teacher,we kinda worship different people then us...
and when we go into a different country they treat us immigrants like crap!
i dont think im racist,i think racism is stupid WITHOUT a reason,but sometimes things like armenians do get on my nervs
and without a doubt aggresive racism without reason dosnt have a place in ats,but its a tough issue.
for the topic my best friend is a black man,and his the greatest friend i ever had

[edit on 18-9-2009 by Stillalive]

Is this thread - and the point that SO is trying to make in his OP, about politics?

No.

Its about racism. Its about trying to paint people out as being inferior, or trying to provoke a reaction about an issue, solely because of a person, or a group of peoples skin colour.

There is a huge difference between that and politcs, and anyone who claims to be intelligent enough to understand politics, most certainly is intelligent enough to understand the other.

Of all places...a Forum whose motto is "Deny Ignorance" should afford no shelter to racism or bigotry.

Generalizing Millions of people based on the color of their skin is an intellectual weakness, a spiritual disease and a moral cancer...an inability to escape baser emotions ....a desperate need to find their own relative self-worth through the denegration of others en-masse.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
How can you discern racism disguised as political criticism?

This is not necessarily directed at you, but intended to be a general statement...

In my long experience with social content communities (dating back to BBSs of the 1980's) the only people who seem to be confused about "what is a racist remark" are indeed racists doing one of two things...
1. pretending ignorance/confusion on the subject.
2. attempting to inject claims of racism where there is none.

I understand what your saying, but it's not that black and white.

A liberal will see things differently than a conservative.

For instance, Joe Wilson said you lie to the President and somehow we have Congressmen talking about racism and klu klux klan riding through the country side.

Like Michael Steele said, that's just silly.

Obama hasn't cried racism because people don't like his policies but Dowd and Jimmy Carter are trying to use Obama's race as a crutch.

Obama doesn't do that and as a black man who has seen racism up close and personal, I agree with him.

Like I said, this is overblown. We are not drinking out of seperate water fountains or using seperate bathrooms.

Racism exists but you can't single out a few racist kooks and say that's the sum of political opposition to Obama.

That's reducing his Presidency to race and as a black man I find that offensive.

Originally posted by Stillalive
...
the REAL PROBLEM is REVERSE RACISM!
...:

Why do we always call this stupid stuff "Reverse Racism" ? That is a huge Joke. It's not reverse racism, it's just racism. Not only that but racism rarely spawns publicly from white people, it ALWAYS begins when black people accuse the rest of us as being racist. This is NOT REVERSE RACISM, it is SIMPLY RACISM!

If for no other reason then the society we live and are raised in, I believe racism or sexism, or any ism exists in everyone under the skin. It might not be hatred, or slander, but as a human, we make judgements and calculations based on many things, and race, gender, nationality, etc all factor in to our subconscious thinking.
It's when people make decisions, take action or speak based on those racist thoughts that it moves into the realm of ignorance. One might have thoughts that come into their head when they meet or see a person of another race, but their better judgement and kindness come into play when they act according to empathy and respect.
I agree completely and whole heartedly with the OP that acting on racist thoughts is enabling ignorance. It's when you use your head and act out of the respect, love and empathy for your brothers and sisters that you truly deny it.