Do You Have the Right to Flip Off a Cop? (Yes You Do!)

reply to post by captaintyinknots


The constitution takes priority over state laws. So yes you could.

It's protected as free speech.

Now, you can't call him a pig.

However, you can say. I think you are a pig. That's a thought, which you can't be prosecuted on a thought. They can't fine you for "thinking" something now can they?

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

The constitution takes priority over state laws. So yes you could.

It's protected as free speech.

Now, you can't call him a pig.

However, you can say. I think you are a pig. That's a thought, which you can't be prosecuted on a thought. They can't fine you for "thinking" something now can they?

~Keeper

It's not free speech. Its free expression. And while I dont agree with it, flipping off or swearing at a cop can be considered a threat.

Fighting words are not covered by free speech laws, and neither is harrassment.

You are absolutely right in your last statement though. Anything you say to a cop that is prefaced by "in my opinion...." or something of the like is fully legal.

Very interesting, I didn't know that we could flip off cops.
However, I will not be testing this out anytime soon, as cops give me the willies.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


cool great find!

I disagree. I was arrested and conviceted of "disorderly conduct" in Ohio for calling a cop a @#&%*$! liar. Just a fine but still a crime.

Originally posted by Quantazero
I disagree. I was arrested and conviceted of "disorderly conduct" in Ohio for calling a cop a @#&%*$! liar. Just a fine but still a crime.

In Illinois, the law you describe is not "Disorderly Conduct"...it's a non-written law called "Failure to yield to the opinion of an Officer" and it's punishable on-scene (Usually, with a 10-count of Officers and a Tazer or six.).

Yeah...been there.

Cuhail

reply to post by Chadwickus


The law is the law.
It has to be articulated and made knowable for the citizenry.
If it is not articulated, then it's not illegal.

I use profanity every day as a means of stress release..... sometimes cussing myself out too!

But watch who you cuss out or flip the finger at.....they me be a nutjob that's carrying a weapon and about to go berserk.

Dying over a parking spot will be hard for your loved one's to swallow.

Best to keep your windows rolled up, air conditioning on, wear a smile, and move along.

Oh! And give your loved one's a big hug when you see them.

Have a nice day.

So, this thread is arguing for the right to have bad manners, ruin someone else's day, because we can? Seems a little offbeat, rude, and lacks the kind of social graces we would expect of our citizenry. I, for one, suggest you keep your finger to yourself.

Last I heard, a provoking gesture can get you into a fight, and the person starting to beat you has just cause. Am I wrong on this?

There are better ways to get even. Personally, I just turn it over to God. "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. I will repay." and "Cast your bread on the waters and it will return to you again."

If you want it to happen to you, do it to someone else. Best idea: stop the bad karma at that point. Self-control. Peace on earth. Take a deep breath, let it out. Calm down. Maintain an even strain. Be cool, real cool.

Don't sweat the small stuff...it's all small stuff...

And all those self-control maxims...

Love thy neighbor and you won't need all those laws.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Jim Scott]

Actually, the Constitution applies to the U.S. Federal Government, and states that authorities not expressly given to the federal government by the Constitution itself are reserved for the states and their citizens. The Federal government cannot establish religion, restrict your X amendment right, etc., but a state can unless doing so is in violation of that state's constitution.

The state of Colorado could, if the residents approved, change their state's constitution and make their entire economic system in to a dictatorship with a communal / socialistic economic system with fixed pricing and the like, and there's little any other state or the Feds could do about it since the Constitution requires every state to recognize the laws of another state, and having been voted on and approved by the citizens of that state... well... that's the end of it... well, except for the Fed having jurisdiction over interstate commerce might make Colorado rethink their economic system but if Colorado felt itself self-sufficient and did not require out-of-state goods and services... not much the Fed could do either.

Conversely, the US Constitution cannot force any state to have the same laws as any other state. That's not to say that the Fed can't "pressure" a state to behave in X way under threat of loosing "federal" funding though.

So, remind yourselves to "think" and remember there may not even be a box to think outside of.

Do you realize that sometimes deadly road rage starts out with gestures and attitude?

You don't know but what this cop intervening could have diverted a bad situation or one that would have escalated.

People in this country have become very beligerent toward authority and as a result, I think a lot of good people have left the police force and the caliber of law enforcement people has been compromised.

Undisciplined children grow up to be unruly adults.

I agree the guy should have been cited. I also think there should be a required educational program to help these people get a grip on reality. Why did the perp think the guy behind him should have been a mind reader? How was the guy in the other car supposed to understand what the perp was trying to do? And why should the car behind the perp endanger himself and his other passengers by trying to back-up and comply with an illegal maneuver to pacify some driver who is not astute enough to plan his parking?

It's not so much the gesture itself. It's the state of mind and the attitude that is implied by using said gesture.

My brother called a black state trooper a racial slur and all he got was a facefull of pepper spray....( at the time) Later in court he was told by the judge to apologize to the officer. I think he got off easy. If it had happened somewhere else and in front of other cops, things may have been much different. Although, he did call for back up and four more squad cars showed up. Family gatherings can be awkward at times.

reply to post by Quantazero


Not necessarily a crime. 'Disorderly conduct' 'failure to obey a lawful order' etc. are charges that cops can pin on anyone at any time. Regardless if they actually broke the law. They get away with it only because the corrupt system supports them and most people aren't willing to pursue justice.

Maybe to enforce this idea we should start a 'flip a cop' international day. Everyone everywhere should just go on a flipping rampage. It wouldn't take long for them and citizens alike to realize that it's freedom of expression.

well, if it isnt illegal it should be, after all we ask them to enforce the
law - so, this is their Job and I think they should not have to suffer
BS jestures and language. but then that would mean he would be
doing his job enforcing the law and not collecting taxes and generating Revenue. there is a difference one is boring and the other corrupts.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Anti-Evil]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


very informative and very cool...thanks

ive had words with police officers before...usullay it is the rookies who are straight outta the academy and are a little badge heavy...or the ones who think "they" are the law...

other than that i see no reason to use the bird with a cop...but great info to have!

Originally posted by abecedarian
Actually, the Constitution applies to the U.S. Federal Government, and states that authorities not expressly given to the federal government by the Constitution itself are reserved for the states and their citizens. The Federal government cannot establish religion, restrict your X amendment right, etc., but a state can unless doing so is in violation of that state's constitution.

Actually, there are limits to State power listed in the Constitution as well. And every state must abide by them.

Article IV

Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

Section 2. The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

So a ruling in California can be entered for consideration in a case as precedence in a similar case and situation in New York. Likewise US Supreme Court rulings. Section 2 is very important to consider should a state decide to make something illegal such as homosexuality or green socks for that matter.

One interesting thing is the subject of gay marriage. Full faith and credit in Section 1 would make it legal in all states if were legal in one state (as is now the case), but under Section two, if several states have it on the books as illegal (as is also the case) it could be argued that the citizens of each state should be "protected" by the legal immunity clause from having to recognize a gay marriage.

But for something a bit lighter, the few states that have indoor smoking bans are unconstitutionally excluding a small segment of the population from a freedom in several states. Entrepreneurs are unable to make the choice as to if their business shall be a non-smoking establishment. In the case of bars, restaurants, pool halls and bowling alleys; not being able to cater to smoking cliental could cause a loss of property (their business investment) without due process by a jury of their peers.

The "Law Enforcement" community would be wise to remember, assuming it crossed their minds, that the world they police is the world their progeny will inherit.

Enforce that which you would want to enforce you.

Force?
Let's think about that word for a moment.....or two.

Is it necessary?
For what purpose?
To what End?

The End.....if you do so.

You see the problem is, yes you do technically have this right, but many people who become cops are people who would retaliate in some way if you did this to them anyway. And if someone like that is in a position of power like a cop, you are prolly gonna get your sh** f**ked up.

reply to post by deloneninja


Most likely one wouldn't see it coming.
I have all the time in the world.
I'm patient too.

What would you say to one of Nero's 'soldiers'?
Take me as I am?
Heil Nero?

Remember the lesson of the spider.
Let's just hope he doesn't get caught in his own web.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by Perseus Apex]

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Do you have the right? Yes!

Is it the smartest thing to do? NO!!!

Yep that's the key thing...

I have the right to dress up as the sugarplum fairy and drink baby shams in the hardest of hard men's south London pubs - I could even do pretty little twirls and say 'every one look at me I'm a pretty little dancer'...

I have that right, and no one has the right to punch my pretty little face in But can anyone see me leaving the pub looking the same as I went in??

I suppose if that's the ONLY thing they have booked you for... But you know cops, every brake light and anything else they can think of on your car will be checked, they will push your attitude until you really put your foot in it, they will find something.