"Where were these people during the Bush Presidency?"

I keep hearing this over and over.
Obama protesters are only doing it because they are racists.
Any criticism of Obamas policies or agenda is attributed to racism.
Any little insult directed at Obama is because of racism.

These people must have short memories. Either that or they really weren't paying attention.

Just some examples of many:

Where was all the outrage for these? ---Kill Bush Signs

Republican Convention - NYC

Anti War Protests

Bush = Nazi

"Thousands protest Bush Policy"


Anybody who really wants to be honest with themselves could find many many instances of people protesting Bush and his policies. Part of the problem was that the media downplayed many of these protests. Hundreds of thousands were called 'thousands'. Large protests were barely mentioned on the MSM and many times only as a side comment and called rallies like there were 20 people there. Signs saying to kill Bush were laughed at and forgotten rather than plastered all over with false outrage.

Let me ask you this, Obama supporters. Why do you support him. What is different between him and Bush? Big government, big spending, continuing war, bowing to corporations, empty promises, etc.....

And, you do realize that without many many millions of white americans voting for Obama, he would have never won. But now that those people find that he is just more of the same and are fed up, they are now racists?

PLEASE, stop with the racism defense. Truthfully, it makes you look ignorant. Obama is no different than any other politician in Washington. Get over the fact that Obama, the savior of America, is no better than all the rest. Realizing that is not racism, it's just a conclusion based on observation.

pretty smart planning by TPTB to put a black man in office so you cant say anything bad about his policies without being racist huh.

the only thing better would be a holocaust survivor as president.

reply to post by niteboy82


Man, you totally missed the point.

My comment was directed to those who cry racism to any criticism of Obama. Not war protesters, not those critical of the government.

Links to war protesters was to show that people actually did protest Bush policy, as an answer to those who say where were the protests during the Bush years.

I saw the title of this thread and I thought for sure it was asking where were the Tea Party protesters during the Bush years. Oh well, my bad.

reply to post by niteboy82


I do not understand your post. Are you agreeing with him or not?

I must be getting a little info overload this week.

Anyway S&F, the argument, where were you when................is a blatant Straw Man argument and really pisses be off.

What must a politician learn before working in DC
Lie, Obfuscate, Deny, Avoid, Ignore
Do you have any others?

Originally posted by Primordial
reply to post by niteboy82

 

Man, you totally missed the point.

My comment was directed to those who cry racism to any criticism of Obama. Not war protesters, not those critical of the government.

It's a distraction.

While there are certainly people who dislike Obama because of race, the vast majority simply dislike his policies.

By dragging race into every debate, supporters hope to make their opponents afraid to comment on his policies because racism is the 21st century's ultimate taboo.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people who can argue in support of Obama without playing the race card. Unfortunately those people aren't in any of the mainstream media outlets.

reply to post by Primordial


People have short memories

Yeah, I protested the same crap during the Bush years. Back then I was a "left wing nut", "un-American", and a "terrorist sympathizer".

Now, I protest the exact same crap, because Obama is just a younger version of G.W. Bush. But instead of the above, I am now called a "right wing militant", a "a radical religious nutcase", and an "angry white racist".

It's all very interesting to see the whole country go through a role reversal. But it's sad at the same time.....................

I'm not left wing, I'm not right wing, I am definitely an American, I do not sympathize with terrorists, I am not militant, I have never been to church in my entire life, and I don't give a crap about race.........................

Unless of course...... I speak out against the injustices of the current Regime, then I am all of those things.....at the same time, and everyone will be afraid of speaking out, because they don't want to be a "right wing militant", a "a radical religious nutcase", an "angry white racist", a "left wing nut", "un-American", and a "terrorist sympathizer".

Funny thing is... people that used to speak out with me, now speak out in favor of the things they used to protest. Odd indeed........


[edit on 16-9-2009 by aravoth]

Originally posted by turbokid
pretty smart planning by TPTB to put a black man in office so you cant say anything bad about his policies without being racist huh.

the only thing better would be a holocaust survivor as president.

where were the policy disputes..let's see if we can see them in these 9/12 pictures:

www.life.com...

hhhmm...i'm trying to find one among the "obama as the joker" signs

Originally posted by aravoth
Yeah, I protested the same crap during the Bush years. Back then I was a "left wing nut", "un-American", and a "terrorist sympathizer".

Now, I protest the exact same crap, because Obama is just a younger version of G.W. Bush. But instead of the above, I am now called a "right wing militant", a "a radical religious nutcase", and an "angry white racist".

It's all very interesting to see the whole country go through a role reversal. But it's sad at the same time.....................

I'm not left wing, I'm not right wing, I am definitely an American, I do not sympathize with terrorists, I am not militant, I have never been to church in my entire life, and I don't give a crap about race.........................

Unless of course...... I speak out against the injustices of the current Regime, then I am all of those things.....at the same time, and everyone will be afraid of speaking out, because they don't want to be a "right wing militant", a "a radical religious nutcase", an "angry white racist", a "left wing nut", "un-American", and a "terrorist sympathizer".

Funny thing is... people that used to speak out with me, now speak out in favor of the things they used to protest. Odd indeed........


[edit on 16-9-2009 by aravoth]

I would like to present a question to you. I being of mix race (White&Black) challenge you to go ask an African-American or several if they think your racist to question Obama. To speak against some of his policies is not racist. Ask them and stop listening to these pundits.

I honestly don't give a rats furry butt about them killing each other over political views. Who cares about who said what to whom. I think both sides SUCK.

I just don't want them having their damned hands in my pocket!

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by turbokid
pretty smart planning by TPTB to put a black man in office so you cant say anything bad about his policies without being racist huh.

the only thing better would be a holocaust survivor as president.

where were the policy disputes..let's see if we can see them in these 9/12 pictures:

www.life.com...

hhhmm...i'm trying to find one among the "obama as the joker" signs

hows that any different from the "bush as a chimp" signs?

the obama as a joker sign is still disagreement with his policy of socializing healthcare (it says "socialism" right underneath, it doesnt say "kill ni**ers") Both are disrespect for a president who's policies they dont agree with.

but it doesnt matter, this is all designed to keep us bickering over who is racist, while both parties stomp all over the taxpayers and the constitution. Dont you find it mildly ironic that all the "important" things stay the same from administration to administration?

reply to post by niteboy82


They will never see your point because it is not part of their agenda.

I too am not part of the controlled political; supposedly two party system.

I do not vote for a face or a figure. I question still those that really believe that President Obama was elected into office by a fair untainted voting system.

I guess these are the same people that believe that President Bush was also freely elected.

I wish they were right because maybe our chances of winning would be greater.

It is not about pride. It is not about racism. It is not even and truth or conspiracies.

It is all about control and freedom; the two things that we have given up and thrown away.

reply to post by turbokid

pretty smart planning by TPTB to put a black man in office so you cant say anything bad about his policies without being racist huh. the only thing better would be a holocaust survivor as president.

I actually LOLed when i read that, it's so true it's funny.

I think one reason why it seems that everyone is starting to voice their dissatisfaction now is that when Bush was in office he did a good job at keeping his underhandedness secret. Now, I'm not saying that we weren't catching on to him and some of his underhanded tactics, but this administration is so In-Your-Face about theirs. It's almost like saying you Americans were so stupid to let Bush get by with what he did when it was so obvious that we won't even try to hide it anymore. We will just do it right in front of you and you will either not notice or not do anything about it. I think they found out differently, and now we are tired of all the BS! Finally America has woke up to years and years of rediculous Lies and Deceit!

reply to post by Starseed32


Yes, I was thinking something similar. When Bush was in office people were pissed but knew his time would soon be up. Now that Obama is in and seems to be more of the same, people aren't willing to wait another 8 years. They now see it doesn't matter who is in office and all his talk of change was just more BS to get himself elected.

Our government is out of control and just gets worse with each administration. Many are starting to wake up to how deep the corruption goes. Since 9/11 many people are paying more attention to politics and what is going on in our country and the world. 9/11 jolted them out of their complacency and they started to realize that things are not as they thought.

Obama just happened to make a lot of promises and big talk then just went to business as usual. These big promises of change had people literally crying tears with hope only to be let down. Now they are pissed. Not racists, just tired of more lies.

As many have noted, Obama, despite being for some vague comforting notion of "change", really is all about being "more of the same but with a smiley face on it." He's increased the troops in the US wars of opportunity, he has NOT closed Guantanamo as advertised, rendition flights continute, and the excesses of the Bush administration will go unpunished.

This seems pretty clear. The reaction to Obama is much less so.

We have several different groups.

Firstly there are partisans who, just as their counterparts in the Bush era did, will support BO no matter what. I'd say that there are far fewer of these people than Bush supporters back in the day because that kind of blind obedience is very much a right wing trait.

I'd suspect that there would, however, be a sizeable proportion of black people in this group. This is not to say that such people are stupid: I think it's a reflection on how long black people have been oppressed in US society. Now they've got a guy in the White House, there are going to be some black people who will always look for the good and deny the bad in BO. It might be analogous to the many poor whites who support Republican policies even though those policies are stacked against them. Mind you , those guys have a huge media machine to tell them what to think. But I think the same psychological attitude informs both groups, and it's one that springs from poverty amd powerlessness.

Secondly there are people like myself who are of the "plague on both your houses" flavour. While there may be some racists among this crowd, I think racism doesn't really fit with that mindset. Why shouldn't a black man be just as lying and corrupt as any other politician?

Then there are going to be Republicans who'd hate whoever was in office regardless of colour. Now although colour may not directly be an issue here, I'd say it was likely that some portion of this group are none too pleased that a black man is POTUS. In fact I'd say it was naive to suppose that some of these people weren't racist.

However, only the dumbest of those people are going to directly express that racial hatred because most people understand that it's (quite rightly, IMO) kind of a taboo in the US at the moment. For most people who accept the normative rules of society, that kind of argument is seen as self-defeating.

It's also not irrelevant that the Southern Democrats aren't exactly squeaky clean when it comes to racism. IIRC, RFK had some real problems dealing with that faction of the party, and I suspect that tradition hasn't entirely disappeared. So there are going to be some Dems who are acutely uncomfortable with Obama.

Therefore to say that all critics of Obama are racist is as dumb as saying that no critics of Obama are racist. It is a complex situation, and I've probably only scratched the surface here.

The other problem is that many Americans have a rather superstitious attitude when you start throwing words like "socialism"around. "Socialism"="communism"=EVIL. It's a weird knee-jerk thing that, despite there being lessons in plain view from the McCarthy era, just won't go away.

Personally, I find the idea that Obama (who is shaping up to be, if anything, a smoother, less embarrassing corporate whore than his predecessor) is a socialist quite laughable.

And the healthcare thing is interesting. I haven't lookded at it in detail, and would assume that the proposals would be just as stuffed with pork as any other bill by any other administration: but it's clearly aroused some very powerful opposition. I'd be inclined to say it's a step in the right direction simply because of the oppostion it's provoked. I don't think that opposition is genuine grass roots: I think it's Astroturf grown by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

I have to say I thought the White House was correct in simply denying the race issue. They know it would be foolish to be seen to play the race card... but Carter might... let's face it, he's closely linked to Brezhzinski (God I hope I spelled that correctly) who is, according to Webster Tarpley, one of the major eminences grises of the Administration.

I think race is clearly a factor in some people's dislike of Obama, but actually quantifying that is another matter entirely. And Carter floated the idea, and while the White House may have slapped it down, all that does is distance themselves from it. The idea is still out there and it was brought up by one of Obama's natural allies.

Interesting.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by rich23]

Originally posted by Starseed32
I think one reason why it seems that everyone is starting to voice their dissatisfaction now is that when Bush was in office he did a good job at keeping his underhandedness secret. Now, I'm not saying that we weren't catching on to him and some of his underhanded tactics, but this administration is so In-Your-Face about theirs.

I have to disagree. Before even the halfway point of the first term, Bush had established a reputation as one of the most secretive presidents. He's actually re-classified a huge number of documents. But are you really trying to say Bush wasn't "in your face" about it all? That whole saga of WMD, for example. You may not, at the time, have spotted it as an obvious lie, but I certainly did. I can remember getting the UK version (Saddam could attack our troops in Cyprus with his evil war machine) and thinking, hang on... Iraq can't even produce its own clean water thanks to a combination of bombing and sanctions (under a Dem, I'm not being partisan here) and suddenly they can produce WMD?

Going into Iraq was far more "in your face", for my money, than anything the Obama administration has yet done, although the bank bailout is almost in the same league.

It's also hilarious that the people who supported Bush wnen he gave away trillions attack Obama for doing the same thing exactly. That might be racism or it might be just partisan politics. It's hard to tell.

I do find it difficult to comprehend the mindset of people who were perfectly happy under Bush suddenly getting hysterical about Obama. There may be a few people waking up to the shell game, but I think a lot of people in that particular group are motivated by racism or partisan politics or both. If you weren't deeply unhappy with what Bush was doing, turning round now and criticising Obama for the same things is pretty hypocritical.

Originally posted by rich23

It's also hilarious that the people who supported Bush wnen he gave away trillions attack Obama for doing the same thing exactly. That might be racism or it might be just partisan politics. It's hard to tell.

I do find it difficult to comprehend the mindset of people who were perfectly happy under Bush suddenly getting hysterical about Obama. There may be a few people waking up to the shell game, but I think a lot of people in that particular group are motivated by racism or partisan politics or both. If you weren't deeply unhappy with what Bush was doing, turning round now and criticising Obama for the same things is pretty hypocritical.

See, but that was the point of my OP. Most people weren't happy under Bush. His approval ratings were in the tank. There were many large protests. He faced constant criticism and mockery. Of course there is always partisanship and some stuck by him no matter what, but most didn't.

Now we have some Obama supporters who will stick by him no matter what. More partisanship, only now they make constant accusations of racism against critics. You also have the p.c. crowd who are so desperate to not look racist that they will support him rather than face the risk of being accused of racism themselves. Which is, without them even realizing it, racist.

It a dangerous game. Of course there are racist people in the world, but when you make a legitimate complaint and are disregarded and accused of racism it makes you very angry.

During Bush, his supporters played the same game. They accused critics of being un-patriotic. Most people saw through it as a political tactic to deflect criticism. The problem I see now with the same tactic being used with the word racist replacing un-patriotic is that people believe it.

They are now creating a racial divide, or at the very least making it worse than it already is.

Divide and conquer, plain as day.