The Great Vote Out, End Both Major Parties

I Believe that if we do not exercise our freedom through the next series of elections we are going to be in a situation where physical or dis-obedient methods (law breaking) will become our only methods of maintaining freedoms

I am disturbed by much of what i read lately, from invasions of our privacy, street cams, computer prying, permanent database, destruction of many aspects of our constitution from The right to bear arms, freedom of speech, protection from search and seizure just to get started and most of all a constant invasion of our beliefs and thoughts and the manner as individuals we choose to live, think and pray.

I say in every election we start a movement to vote independent. We throw out both the Republicans and the Democrats at every level from local to state to federal

I don't want to see a revolution, I don't want to see America torn apart

It's not about who's the best candidate, It's not about experience

It's about freedom, it's about electing US the American people back into office without the system being destroyed, legally, as a UNITED STATES of AMERICA we USE the powers granted to us by the Law NOW before it is too late and dismiss both parties

I suggest we start a real conversation here about how to go about the process...

My initial at a glance thoughts

1: we vote ONLY Libertarian, Green or Constitutional or Independent parties as a method of removal of this infestation of bought and sold candidates

2: We examine any and all candidates and if they take CORPORATE or FOREIGN money for campaigns they get taken off our roster

3: They MUST support a removal of the lobbyist or some such system for controlling the capacity to BUY office and law

4: The must pledge to completely restore the constitution

It would be better to elect a person who runs a supermarket in NY than a Bloomberg

It would be better to elect as Governor a Man who has no political ties at all than what we mostly have now. It would be better to elect a complete AMERICAN that has never run for office than any bought in Senator with an agenda any day of the week... or anyone connected to political families or the Legal system or bureaucrat

5: They candidate must support our platform of Complete Transparency and disclosure with full knowledge failure to keep that promise will be called on for IMPEACHMENT

There need not be any terrible scenario as a people, We must end both parties reign, We have all the power, we still do. This needs to become a National discussion, this needs to be the real peaceful and legal Revolution

THE GREAT VOTE OUT

We end them, we knock them, Congress, Senate, State Govt Local Govt we knock them all out of office anyone with any affiliation to them we send packing over the next 4 years.

It's time to stop being Democrats and Republicans and time to be Americans

We can not be divided by pathetic issues by them anymore

Vote them all out

Share your ideas...

An impossible task but one that I support.

I think that the root of the problem with our current political system is money and greed. There should be strict rules in place to ensure that government employees can not make more than 2-3x the salary of the average American. How exactly are they supposed to represent the people if they can't relate to the people? If they view us as cattle, they will treat us as such.

Rules need to be in place that would monitor their assets to ensure that they aren't taking any form of gift from lobbyists. If they take so much as a free lunch, they should be thrown out of office. If a company gets caught bribing an elected official, they should face extremely stiff penalties.

There is no easy way to root out the corruption. If we ever want it to stop, something radical will have to be done. If we try to make subtle changes, they will simply respond with subtle changes to how they maintain their corruption.

They actually THINK we are too stupid to simply, legally and effectively dismiss them.

I don't think we are, We all talk about the horrible revolution, "over my dead body" "if they do this we will"

But the real Revolution is absolutely in our hands a simple and well spoken capacity to fire them all i 4 years none of them would be left in any office in the land... a REAL revolution a legal Revolution a true American Conspiracy to overthrow the conspirators

I think it's time we actually used the one power they simply can not take from us.

reply to post by Karlhungis


I think a strong return to state and local govt is a major first, we are never going to all agree on all but a few basic fundamental; issues...

But get those bought and sold out of office is a must...

I'm not so sure about limitations on earnings in a Capitalist system

BUT

I think campaign funds like gifts should be ELIMINATED from major corporation... and individual caps on those funds should be limited severely

i.e. the CEO of Exxon can't contribute a Million dollars because the rest of us can not afford that

I'd say an individual cap of 25,000 should be imposed... no one man or company should be able to BUY a President anymore and get representation

The people's right to choose politicians should be viable... OUR contributions as individuals should be the only ones allowed

The solution is no corporate involvement in government PERIOD. Most of these guys are bought and paid for, it's frikin disgusting and no one seems to give a crap -they are more worried about what Kanye said.. Once that cancer is cutout then move to make any form of corruption in government a TREASONOUS act punishable by death. fixed.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by reasonable]

As much as I support the idea of promoting alteratives the cycle of "party dominance" is inevitable so the argument is a moot. Even if you were some how able to gain support for a third party, inevitably that party would become major and ofcourse there would be others railing against that party implementing it into another "two party system". The issue isnt the fact we have "two major parties", the issue is letting folks know there are always other choices. Somthing people readily forget.

SG

[edit on 15-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by reasonable


Agreed..... I somehow doubt we will get hardly anyone who doesn't agree that corporate payoffs need to be gone via the Lobby system, via the electoral process

So so far we have...

Vote out existing govt in it's entirety

Create perhaps an amendment that doesn't allow for the vote to be bought and paid for

reply to post by Southern Guardian


It's not about supporting any one third party or coming to a consensus on belief or policy

It's about supporting all 3rd parties and moving the vote entirely away from the 2 that have been bought or sold

I agree, it's not about A 3rd party

It's not about us coming to agreement...that wont happen

it is about a vote of "lack of confidence" in the 2 existing parties knowing they have been corrupted, have become dogmatic and have vested financial aspirations that keep them in power

agreement of what comes next.... no that's how they hold us down

But there are parties FAR closer to out individual ideals... vote for ANY 3rd party you believe represents you

But Vote away from tyranny of the few... let this Senate and Congress represent the true diverse face of America, give them a job to do

reply to post by Southern Guardian


It's not about supporting any one third party or coming to a consensus on belief or policy

It's about supporting all 3rd parties and moving the vote entirely away from the 2 that have been bought or sold

I agree, it's not about A 3rd party

It's not about us coming to agreement...that wont happen

it is about a vote of "lack of confidence" in the 2 existing parties knowing they have been corrupted, have become dogmatic and have vested financial aspirations that keep them in power

agreement of what comes next.... no that's how they hold us down

But there are parties FAR closer to out individual ideals... vote for ANY 3rd party you believe represents you

But Vote away from tyranny of the few... let this Senate and Congress represent the true diverse face of America, give them a job to do

reply to post by mopusvindictus

agreement of what comes next.... no that's how they hold us down

I agree. They play on the fear of the unknown. Better the evil that you know than the evil that you don't.

reply to post by Karlhungis


Yeah a basic premise of this thread is that we are divided, this is about changing those in charge, taking back control via the vote, so long as we vote democrat or republican we are screwed.

This isn't Just about politics or theories of conspiracy or corruption

a 2 party system just doesn't allow for true political diversity

Perhaps saying Vote em all out is a bit harsh, but why not there areat least 4 good other political parties out there, our genuine interests and causes have no representation.

What it amounts to is standing by our beliefs,

Republican has come to mean nothing

It should be

Republican

Christian

Conservative

Constitution

Capitalist

All as separate parties maybe more that's just off the top of my head
Likewise for the Democratic party... each represents many areas of society and leans to one every election and screws the rest

Obama should flat be in the Socialist party....which is FINE when it's honest

and Bush should have been in a separate Neoconservative party
but Democrat and Republican no longer mean or stand for ANYTHING but compromise of belief.



[edit on 15-9-2009 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by mopusvindictus

Perhaps saying Vote em all out is a bit harsh, but why not there areat least 4 good other political parties out there, our genuine interests and causes have no representation.

Like I said before, a subtle change such as trying to increase the viability of another party or two will not work (IMHO). I think that the change has to be drastic and rigid or people will simply want to default to the old ways. Keep in mind that the majority of people can't be rational when it comes to politics.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Every single political seat in every branch of government will be filled by lottery. Every position will stand for two years at which time a new lottery is cast. Except for President, that seat will continue for 4 years only - no consecutive terms. Every position will earn an annual salary 2x their current (secular) annual salary. No bonuses, no incentives to steal, lie or cheat. Accountibility and transparency or you're out and a new lottery is cast for that position/seat.

Eliminating incentive for cronyism, greed, power-mad, self-serving interests as well as corporate manipulation in legislation.

Eligibility for the "lottery" will be determined through an encyclopedia of candidates whose entire public record will be included within its directory. The encyclopedia is free online and in print, available to every citizen voter in the country. A new, fair campaign strategy for every candidate who wishes to serve his/her country that will clearly advertise his/her political views.

Along with these changes, one other comes to mind. There will be a government sponsored political channel that airs details on current issues being introduced, discussed, voted on and implemented, 24/7. National Security Issues will remain "top secret", except for funding issues. All national security funding issues will go through an extended process of independent audit and accountibility.

The IRS and Federal Reserve are eliminated. Homeland Security is disbanded, with security reverting back to individual states in the Union.

My plan could use some tweaking. Any thoughts?

reply to post by Hazelnut


Some very decent ideas...

But you know what idea I like the most?

Public office filled by LOTTERY

That is absolutely brilliant, we make demi gods out of people based on some high falutin education from contrived structured Universities, perfect moral behavior on a religious set of standards or plain ol popularity contest.

Do you know what we actually elect people on anyway? Speech patterns and the shape of their heads... 90% of Presidents have a head who's ratio falls within a certain norm of attractiveness

So how could lottery actually get us a WORSE set of choices? provided we bar those who haven't completed HS and who aren't violent ofenders or long time sufferers of mental illness?

Lottery every American has a shot... Brilliant, it would end the corruption,no one making law long enough to corrupt, fast change over true random reflection of the will of the people

How is a presidents opinion on Abortion more relevant than you or I or a host of other issues?

Best idea yet

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I'm relieved just a tad that my idea was at least considered. All this time people keep bickering back and forth about who did what to whom when and why with which. I've been thinking of ways to make it better. Solve the problems in a workable, realistic simple way that gives every american equal advantage when it comes to having their say.

The politicians will be on equal footing as far as campaigns go. Each candidate will have an opportunity to spell out his her vision and record. Every eligible candidate will receive equal opportunity advertising in ONE place (website, enclyclopedia, directory) available to everyone.

Voters will elect their represenatives into the lottery.

I wonder if it could be done? Too many people would lose their leverege.

reply to post by Hazelnut


Hardly anyone would loose leverage, just a handful of people who have all the leverage at one time and perpetually, these people would be extrememly small in number under 1% of the population.

Even the bulk of the wealthy would stand to gain, having a few Million dollars buys you nothing, we are talking about taking LEGAL control (not money) away from Billionaires or those who control Billions...

I have nothing against wealth nor do i see those that have it being a negativism

But the ability to BUY votes is outrageous...

Your idea above is not so far removed from mine, eliminate campaign funding beyond a maximum level attainable from an individual or small group, singular advertising venues is not a bad thought, equal number of commercials at specific times, equal number of websites etc, etc...

Corporations should not be able to blow 100 million on a candidate where I can trump hiim by only 10 G it's decidedly unfair... it's only going to elect the kid from the in crowd to class president every time and our issues are far more serious than juice in the cafeteria or soda

The Lottery thing was brilliant, there is nothing but opinion in regards to 90% of this, it's become a farce of social judgment anyway...

Even in regards to war, we act as if those we elect aren't calling on 'experts" to inform them anyway, as IF the President makes decisions on anything but pay offs and "expert" advice anyway... any moron can make a multiple choice decision based on personal opinion when offered advice by a panel of experts...

Eliminate the payola from the bribers and you eliminate the problem

I have to say; it makes me wonder why people are not more into this particular thread.

Talk of prepping for violent revolution

74 Flags

Legitimate discussion on actually using our still existing legal vote to open up several other parties and oust the traitors legally and with out conflict with our g-d and State given rights in a way no harm could possibly come

5 Flags

Somewhere there is a major statement by results of my last 2 Threads in regards to the climate of the American people

S & F for you! I think this is a great idea, and the other ideas posted here as well. We need to get away from the "two-party" system that we have now. We also need to remove the ability for government officials to fill the office for years on end. This only gives them an opportunity to establish their corruption. I also believe that there should be a way to "fire" a public official, with a petition to vote said official out. The petition would have to have so many LEGIT signatures, and should be verified. Then the vote could be scheduled. This would be a great way to get politicians to start working for the people, rather than for themselves.

But before a "vote out" can be done, we need to convince the public that voting for the third party is not "throwing away your vote". Every time I vote third party, my friends, relatives, even my wife tell me that it's pointless, let's just get this guy out of office, or lets keep this gut from getting into office.

Something has got to be done. Violent revolution will not work without the needless slaughter of innocent people via a marshal law system. Large gatherings will sooner or later turn violent, the the military will be brought in.

I HATE that.... "your just wasting your vote"

How many of us actually have a belief system of how we see this world that is either Republican or Democrat.... are we really this non complex?

I can't believe that, not for a second...

It's utter apathy,

The problem is Not voting with your heart, the desire to be on a "winning team" and to conform your beliefs to the herd...

If people vited with HEART for real, the conservative party, the socialist party, the Green party and the Libertarian parties would ALL get 10x as many votes the senate and congress would be diverse and need to really discuss and debate our real issues and desires

The real copout is voteing not for what a person believes but rather voting by popularity of opinion....

You CAN never win, by voting along 2 party lines, you will never be represented by your real beliefs about how the system should work, it's compromise of spirit and intellect

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Election coverage by the media would also have to be reformed. Just look at how they treated Ron Paul as a non-candidate despite his respectable following and fresh take on many issues. The media covering election night also needs to change because they are easily able to manipulate how people perceive the flow of the election and many people change their vote accordingly or simply don't vote at all if they think that the election is already in the bag for a given candidate.