Billions and Billions - Yep hear it all the time - Why it will mean something Soon.

reply to post by D.E.M.


Yes, but remember the markets are already used to the monopoly money, somebody had a brainstorm and wants to go after the savings of American tax payers.

Consumer Spending Could Boost the Stock Market

CHARLOTTE, N.C. - Wall Street wants consumers to do their part to heal the economy. Traders know it's going to take some time.

Investors will get some insight this week into how much consumers are spending from a government report on August retail sales. They'll also get an indicator of how willing consumers are to borrow money to make those purchases when credit card lender Discover Financial Services reports earnings.

"I think everybody is focusing so heavily on if people are releasing some of those dollars they have been clinging so tightly to over the past year," said Jamie Cox, managing partner at Harris Financial Group in Colonial Heights, Va.

Why so much importance on what people are spending even when the crocks in Wall street knows that unemployment is at record hight.

Why they want Americans savings and want Americans to borrow on loans again and credit when the banks are not lending.

I tell you my friend something is up and we are going to find out very soon.

Specially with the holidays coming and retail to be hit for the second time in two years.

www.cnbc.com...



[edit on 13-9-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


Why bother "Going after the savings" if the savings have no value? You'd be wasting time trying to grab something from people that is going to be just as easily taken away when this bubble implodes and the dollar is declared valueless in any case. They've sustained the delusion for 40 years now, its finally reached the point where it is untenable.

I've seen some huge numbers thrown about in regards to these exotic financial instruments... however, not all of them are high risk..

Most derivatives cancel each other out, and almost all are used to counter risks in the market to decrease loss and increase gain. Covers, shorts, calls etc are all considered derivatives.

That being said, they obviously cannot "collapse" all at once.. CDO's can of course default, but I think we have seen the worse of such situations, the gov bailouts acting as the CDS's used to cover CDO'S limit the level of losses.. so instead of a sudden collapse of derivatives, we see a slow steady decline and thus, over leveraged banks continue to collapse at ever increasing numbers.

reply to post by D.E.M.


I don't think that our nation will be allowed to go bankrupt, the same way that the Fed and government has been working behind the scene to create an environment of financial security for many years they are going to keep do it for many years to come.



[edit on 13-9-2009 by marg6043]

One thing I don't see explained yet, is all this money that is borrowed by foreign banks through bond sales, are they secured against anything? I know that a bank holds a house as collateral when you apply for a mortgage. Are foreign nations that stupid that they would continue to buy all these bonds or debt for that matter without any collateral attached to them? There have to be some hooks that other countries have to guarantee their monies. Is there a possibility that our infrastructures could be pieced out and sold to these bond holding countries? I see more and more highways, toll roads, and bridges being "leased" to foreign companies. Has America been sold???

Originally posted by Rockpuck


That being said, they obviously cannot "collapse" all at once..

I think what she is saying in the OP is come Sept 30 2009, when the fiscal year ends, new regulations (laws?) take effect and all the derivatives have to be reconciled.

Does that make sense?

very good op. i always enjoy your threads. if you also listen to people like webster griffen tarpley, gerlad celente, peter schiff and a few others it seems like it is almost inevitable that the "house of cards" will come crashing down. this whole fractional reserve banking system has gotten us into a mess that i dont think we can get out of. stock up while you can. it is better to have supplies and not need them, than to need them and not have them.

In a parallel dimension china got it's refund red dawn style and then the aliens came saying they like honey mustard with there fries.

Soon One must choose where they stand:

Will it be the The Good, Bad or the Ugly.....(click ear)

[edit on 13-9-2009 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by venividivici


The laws regulating over leveraging (true source of derivatives collapsing) are already in place.. new laws won't control the market. Even if their were new laws, existing contracts cannot be voided.. post defacto

The derivative markets are still constrained due to rising defaults.. these effect Collatorized Debt Obligations, and independant loans.. new mark to market laws actually aid in expanding over leveraging, so the laws being implemented are doing quite the opposite of restricting derivatives, no?

reply to post by Rockpuck

Don't shoot the messenger friend. I'm just trying to digest what everyone has already assumed in the OP

from the OP

Do you now understand, banks have not put those derivatives on their books - but come Sept. 30th 2009 - due to new banking standards - derivatives need to be put on the books and when that happens - the banking industry will most likely come crashing down.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by D.E.M.

 

I don't think that our nation will be allowed to go bankrupt, the same way that the Fed and government has been working behind the scene to create an environment of financial security for many years they are going to keep do it for many years to come.
[edit on 13-9-2009 by marg6043]

To some degree I hope very much that that is the case. But as it stands now, I think their "master plan" is out of control. Just some of the sloppiness showing in the system now... it feels like someone screwed up (maybe by not catching G.S. in time?) and their checks are beginning to fail... This concept of appealing to people's sense of patriotism to go spend spend spend may be plan B, but I don't think it is going to work. Even if they prop the whole farce up to make it look like it is all nice and pretty, once enough people have lost their jobs, it doesn't matter what *they* say, the people won't believe it.

reply to post by venividivici


Right, I get that.. but what I see is that let's take CDO'S as an example (the largest derivatives) .. banks list these loans on their books, but not as liabilities.. if they hold insurance Credit Default Swaps then these liabilities are considered "voided"... the capital via insurance sets aside CDO's .. they will be publically listed come reporting time, but will be considered if anything as assets.. the banks will reveal (maybe anyways) their holdings, but will fudge numbers so that any over leveraging problems are swept under the rug..

Just as Congress changed M2M rules, assets loosing value are no longer updated to market pricing, thus assets don't loose value even if they do, this way good loans don't turn into liabilities when homeowners go "underwater" ... just an example of the corruption regarding banks so called "disclosure and transparancy"

reply to post by rogerstigers


Yes you are right and I feel the same way, is out of control and the fed has lost that control, but the way things are run in the US the appearances of well been and prosperity will be promoted no matter how bad things are really behind the scenes.

And you are right also all this is just helping extend the recession and economic problems we have.

have you noticed how the markets seems to do good even with bad news like the unemployment".

Deceptions.

This is an excellent post, great timing. My fear is that our Gov. will put or already have a plan from their " top minds" on a horrific false flag event to cover their butts.
Prepare, people.. spread the word. The time is short

Originally posted by 30_seconds


The derivatives is much larger. The investment and finance machine thinks they're owed so much money that it would take a billion millionaires to pay it off.


Simply put, this isn't possible.


How could there be so much debt in this country? Because those who "loaned" the money created it out of nothing - think air (or got it from those who did). In short, bankers and finance companies lent counterfeit non-existant money to the world, but then demanded they be paid back with the real stuff.

They print their riches, but we have to work for it. You decide if this is fair, justified, or even possible at this point.

BINGO!!!!!!! Derivatives are just that.....fake bullshyte....just like our dollar. Once we got off the gold standard all we are seeing was bound to happen because greed and power are the only thing the elite know.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Whoa buddy. You are way over my head now Rockpuck.

Lets assume that CDO's can be considered an asset ( I have a hard time grasping that one). Something else has to cancel it out in order for there to be a balance or reconciliation come Sept 30 2009. If I am way off base here just ignore my ramblings

Originally posted by marrasca
One thing I don't see explained yet, is all this money that is borrowed by foreign banks through bond sales, are they secured against anything? I know that a bank holds a house as collateral when you apply for a mortgage. Are foreign nations that stupid that they would continue to buy all these bonds or debt for that matter without any collateral attached to them? There have to be some hooks that other countries have to guarantee their monies. Is there a possibility that our infrastructures could be pieced out and sold to these bond holding countries? I see more and more highways, toll roads, and bridges being "leased" to foreign companies. Has America been sold???

One question for you... why do you think AIG was bailed out and continues to be bailed out?

They are at the center of the whole derivatives mess, they are the ones who Insured those mortgage bundles foreign banks and investors bought.

That is why the U.S. is causing the other countries to crash. Those other countries bought into the U.S. - Triple A ratings and mortgage guarantees.

It all comes back to the biggest scam on the world - the scam of "don't worry, we will insure your investment purchases of mortgages that were built on derivatives".

The fact of the matter is, the U.S. is the cause of the economic problems of the world right now.

Why do you think China is soooo P.Od - they are going to take us down, not using weapons but using finances.

Also by them coming out last week and saying "We are defaulting on our derviatives purchases/bets" that is now the game ender. They said it was all sold to them on an illegal basis and was a scam.

Why - because just as I explained in the OP, the basis of deposits is NOT REALLY THERE! It has been a huge scam!

reply to post by marg6043


I don't recall ever seeing such a blatent discordance between the media and facts on the ground in the 30 or so years of news that I remember (only have memories of news as far back as 5...didn't fully understand much of it till about 10).

One thing of note is that this is the first time (from my recallection) that there have ever been daily economic briefings to the POTUS.

Thank you for this thread which helped me understand what's going on. Your explanation about derivatives cleared things up in my mind because I had a hard time understand what that word meant.

Things certainly do seem rather grim, but I do hope that in the end, we'll all come out in a better place.