In 2005, the idiots at CDC replicated/recreated the Spanish Flu virus again !

Just a short time ago I came across an article relating to the Spanish Flu that was published in the Guardian newspaper back in October, 2005.

The title of the article was enough to make me sit up and take notice as it read
"From frozen Alaska to the lab: a virus 39,000 times more virulent than flu"

From what I could understand, a group of scientists within the CDC (Centres for Disease Control) had in 2005 become extremely interested in the 1918 Spanish Flu and why it's pandemic was so lethal... and because there no longer were any complete existing samples, had decided to "recreate" an EXACT copy of the virus.
To do this, they used whatever partial fragments of the virus they could lay their hands on to enable them to recreate the complete genetic code of the virus ... eventually succeeding ! Using this final complete genetic code, they were able to rebuild a complete REPLICA of the 1918 Spanish Flu !

Reading further in the article it becomes apparent that many had serious misgivings about the possibility of the virus "escaping" and once more being let loose on the world.

Only a handful of scientists have security clearance to access the laboratory at 1600 Clifton Road in Atlanta, Georgia, home to the US government's Centres for Disease Control and Prevention. Before entering, they must pull on a protective hood, don breathing apparatus and pass through electronic fingerprint and retina scanners to prove their identity.

Inside the lab lies a batch of a virus, designated a "select agent", that more than justifies the extreme level of security. Resurrected nearly 90 years after it spread around the globe, leaving an estimated 50 million people dead, it is a replica of the 1918 Spanish flu virus.

The recreation of the virus, which was driven by an urge to unravel why the 1918 pandemic was so devastating, has raised as many fears as it has hopes. While the researchers argue the work will hugely improve protection against natural flu viruses, critics say there is a real danger the virus will escape, with potentially disastrous consequences.

The recreation process was laborious. Scientists collected fragments of the virus from lung tissue taken from victims at the time and preserved in formalin or, in one case, isolated from the lungs of a woman victim whose body had later become frozen in the Alaskan permafrost. Using the fragments, they painstakingly pieced together and read the complete genetic code before using the sequence to rebuild the virus from scratch.

By injecting it into mice, the team led by Dr Jeffery Taubenberger at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Maryland was able to establish just how ferociously effective it was, compared with more common flu strains. All the mice infected died within a few days; all infected with contemporary strains recovered. "I didn't expect it to be as lethal as it was," Dr Terrence Tumpey, a scientist on the project from the US Centres of Disease Control and Prevention, told the journal Nature.

By creating flu strains with only certain parts of the 1918 virus, researchers investigated which of the eight genes that make up the virus were most responsible for its virulence. They discovered that rather than being caused by one or two genes, they all played a part, which suggests that the virus had completely adapted to cause disease in humans, something they say could happen again with avian flu strains.

In a second paper, published in Nature today, Dr Taubenberger and colleagues at the US Centres for Disease Control and Protection analysed the genetic make-up of the recreated virus. Surprisingly, they found it had no similarities to any of the human viruses in circulation, suggesting that the Spanish strain had jumped from birds to humans, and didn't mix with a human virus first, as had been believed.

The finding that Spanish flu came straight from birds has raised concerns among scientists. Previously, a pandemic was only thought likely if an avian strain merged with a human flu virus. "For me, it raises even more concern than I already had about the pending potential of a flu pandemic," said Professor Ronald Atlas, co-director of the centre for the deterrence of biowarfare and bioterrorism at the University of Louisville in Kentucky. "It looks as though an avian strain evolved in 1918 and that led to the deadly outbreak, in much the same way as we're now seeing the Asian avian flu strains evolve."

According to Dr Taubenberger, knowing what mutations gave rise to the 1918 Spanish flu virus will help scientists check viruses to work out which, if any, are evolving to the point where a pandemic is possible. The H5N1 strain of bird flu in Asia is already mutating to make it more suited to humans, he said.

Despite the new insights given by the project, many scientists were alarmed at the recreation itself and particularly that the full genetic sequence was to be made public on an online genetic database.

"Assuming this is a replicant of the 1918 flu strain, if it got out, it could initiate disease in humans and given the work they've done, one had to say it would be infectious," said Prof Atlas.

Viruses have escaped from high-security labs before. During the recent Sars outbreak the virus escaped at least twice, once in Taiwan and once in Singapore, when researchers became contaminated.

Other scientists warned that the 1918 virus's genetic code could easily be misused. Such has been the pace of progress in genetic science that companies now build genes to order for customers who send in details of sequences they want.

"If the genetic sequence is out there on a database, then that is a clear security risk," said Dr John Wood, a virologist at the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control, in Potters Bar.

According to Dr Julie Gerberding, director of the US Centres for Disease Control and Protection, a pandemic is unlikely even if the virus escapes because of most people's natural immunities and the availability of antiviral drugs and flu vaccines.

But the confusing part of the article is that the entire tone of the article was regarding the lethality of the virus and yet at the end of the article, a comment was made that even if this recreated 1918 Spanish Flu virus escaped, a pandemic would be unlikely due to most people's natural immunities.

Does anyone have any further info regarding this very strange 4 year old article ?



[edit on 12-9-2009 by tauristercus]

[edit on 12-9-2009 by tauristercus]

Sorry ... forgot to quote the source:

www.guardian.co.uk...

i really wanna know why they do this crap. what is the point?

Just re-read the article for the 10th time and this little gem hit me between the eyes ... finally !

Other scientists warned that the 1918 virus's genetic code could easily be misused. Such has been the pace of progress in genetic science that companies now build genes to order for customers who send in details of sequences they want.

"If the genetic sequence is out there on a database, then that is a clear security risk," said Dr John Wood, a virologist at the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control, in Potters Bar.

Are they basically admitting that given a genetic code sequence, oh, I don't know ...say, something we'll end up naming the SWINE FLU, that it would be straightforward these days for it to be transcribed by one of these companies into a FULLY WORKING AND POTENTIALLY LETHAL virus ?????

[edit on 12-9-2009 by tauristercus]

[edit on 12-9-2009 by tauristercus]

I swear sometimes these scientists dont think! Why would you want to recreate something so deadly?? For fun or what?! I really dont like what some of these scientists do in their labs. Why would you want to create something so deadly to begin with?!

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
I swear sometimes these scientists dont think! Why would you want to recreate something so deadly?? For fun or what?! I really dont like what some of these scientists do in their labs. Why would you want to create something so deadly to begin with?!

I'm in total agreement with you on this .... can you imagine them all sitting around a table drinking coffee when one bright spark jumps up and says "hey ... lets recreate the Spanish Flu !" ... and the rest jump up and yell "What a great idea ... let's go do it !!"

Irrespective of WHY they decided to do it ... I think the most SIGNIFICANT part of the entire article is that they've come right out and admitted that they can create ANY kind of virus/disease as long as someone comes up with a working genetic code to build it from ..... SERIOUS STUFF !!!

Am I now getting the feeling that perhaps those people stating that Swine Flu is artificial may actually be onto something ?

[edit on 12-9-2009 by tauristercus]

reply to post by TheCoffinman


You know I read a short story once in a sci-fi collection that may answer your question or may just expand your question.

A group of scientists had worked for years on a research project on creating a super mouse. A mouse with 100 times the intelligence of a normal mouse. They had succeeded in creating a group of mice so smart they had escaped and were trying to capture them and were getting frustrated with their lack of success. They called in an exterminator and a specialist in rodents to try and help. They gave the two the breakdown of their situation and both said at exactly the same time-WTF is the matter with you. The scientists ask what do you mean?

The specialist explained to the scientists that at this time the mice of the world currently eat 5% of all the food grown by man. And to this the scientists said so? The exterminator told them that the new mice could be the starvation of Billions of people. The scientists than stated, oh nothing to worry about, only the poor will starve.

My microbiology professor worked previously at the CDC. They maintain far, far more lethal organisms than the Spanish Flu. The reason why is simple: in order to understand how the organisms function and thereby how to prevent and treat them they need to be studied. What anti-virals work? What are the marker proteins that can be used to create a vaccine? As dangerous as this work may seem to be, you certainnly don't these people trying to figure all this stuff out if there is an outbreak of the disease.

Originally posted by jtma508
My microbiology professor worked previously at the CDC. They maintain far, far more lethal organisms than the Spanish Flu. The reason why is simple: in order to understand how the organisms function and thereby how to prevent and treat them they need to be studied. What anti-virals work? What are the marker proteins that can be used to create a vaccine? As dangerous as this work may seem to be, you certainnly don't these people trying to figure all this stuff out if there is an outbreak of the disease.

I understand what you're saying ... but it's one thing to maintain and study an EXISTING version of a virus but to deliberately recreate an 80 year old EXTINCT virus needs a bit more explanation and rationalization as far as I'm concerned.

Makes me also wonder exactly WHAT they've learned in the 4 odd years since they replicated it ... and what the status of the virus itself is right now ... is it still under study ? has it been destroyed ?

[edit on 12-9-2009 by tauristercus]

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
i really wanna know why they do this crap. what is the point?

They do it because humans are naturally ignorant of consequence. It's the same reason people jump out of planes, and why they literally risk life and limb just to be the first to climb a damn mountain. It is this stupidity that will ultimately destroy us all.

Well spotted, tauristercus !
Why wasn't there a huge deal made of this in the media back then ? I certainly don't remember hearing/reading about it.

Anyway, S&F for you !

Originally posted by tauristercus
I understand what you're saying ... but it's one thing to maintain and study an EXISTING version of a virus but to deliberately recreate an 80 year old EXTINCT virus needs a bit more explanation and rationalization as far as I'm concerned.

You just said exactly what I was going to say.

I'm sure there's far more useful things they could be spending their time doing.

Originally posted by tauristercus
I think the most SIGNIFICANT part of the entire article is that they've come right out and admitted that they can create ANY kind of virus/disease as long as someone comes up with a working genetic code to build it from ..... SERIOUS STUFF !!!

Oh, yeah, they've been able to do this for a very long time. Wouldn't be at all surprised if half the viruses that have appeared since the 80s weren't manufactured...

Originally posted by Clickfoot

Originally posted by tauristercus
I think the most SIGNIFICANT part of the entire article is that they've come right out and admitted that they can create ANY kind of virus/disease as long as someone comes up with a working genetic code to build it from ..... SERIOUS STUFF !!!

Oh, yeah, they've been able to do this for a very long time. Wouldn't be at all surprised if half the viruses that have appeared since the 80s weren't manufactured...

I understand ... but it's one thing to "believe" or "theorize" that the capability exists and another to have them conclusively admit that given a sample of genetic code, that it's now extremely simple to create the organism represented by that genetic code sample.

And as they expressed concern regarding the publishing online of the entire 1918 Swine Flu genetic code ... that it's now possible for someone with the capability (obviously not hard anymore) to access that published code and create a sample of the Swine Flu virus for themselves ... then perkaps maliciously release it !

Is there any way we could make things easier for bio-terrorists ?

Scary stuff indeed !

S&F for you, my friend ....

I read in various articles that Donald Rumsfeld made a lot of money, selling shares in Tamiflu

Donald Rumsfeld made a killing on tamiflu

I am seriously starting to think that the swine flu was a a released bio weapon.

Originally posted by SmokeJaguar67
I read in various articles that Donald Rumsfeld made a lot of money, selling shares in Tamiflu

Donald Rumsfeld made a killing on tamiflu

I am seriously starting to think that the swine flu was a a released bio weapon.

Somewhat off topic but .... Rumsfeld, as CEO of Searle reportedly made $US12 million from the aqcquisition by Monsanto in 1985 !
He sure knows how to pick 'em !

Sometimes the answers that light up, are found in places of darkness.

Why not recreate this virus, We have every other virus known to man, why not some more? After all it is these viruses and Bacteria that could hold the genetic answer for ( enter illness here ).

We don't know, so only logical thing would be to investigate them.

Just wish the headquarters for the CDC was located somewhere less populated, Like in a area that even if the viruses escaped, they would die in X factor ( high altitude, etc.)

Originally posted by 10001011
Sometimes the answers that light up, are found in places of darkness.

Why not recreate this virus, We have every other virus known to man, why not some more? After all it is these viruses and Bacteria that could hold the genetic answer for ( enter illness here ).

We don't know, so only logical thing would be to investigate them.

Just wish the headquarters for the CDC was located somewhere less populated, Like in a area that even if the viruses escaped, they would die in X factor ( high altitude, etc.)

Why stop at recreating the Spanish Flu ? Lots more from history we could take a poke at that have managed to kill a sizeable portion of the population ... say, The Black Death, perhaps ?

But what's the bet they already have copies of it to play with !

Yea, they have all the usual suspects. Why recreate Spanish Flu? It was unprecedented in its transmissability and lethality. What made it so transmissable compared to other flus? What made it so lethal? Understanding that is essential to being able to understand future flu viruses and predict how they will likely behave. In other words, you can either wait until the virus is raging through the population and killing millions to decide it's dangerous and begin working on a fix. Or you can understand what makes the virus a killer, spot it early in a new flu variant and take the steps necessary to stop it.

There is alot of hysteria here on ATS and elsewhere about the H1N1 flu. This hysteria is wrapped in a vast amount of misinformation and intentional hyperbole. The fact is, the virus shares certain genetic traits with the 1918 Spanish Flu --- hence the concern. It has already proven it has unusually high transmissability but seems to lack the lethality. Let's hope it stays that way.

Because the flu virus changes so readily the only way to 'profile' it is genetically. And studying the Spanish Flu virus is the basis for alot of that information.