I have a deadly accurate theory about what the biblical "BEAST" is...

Ok this surpises me as much as anyone else who thinks this "connection" is not just "coincidence", this isn't a "presumptious" statement, nor is it fully complete, there are some things I simply don't know and can't fill in, but maybe others here can help me...

First things first, we look at the "mark of the beast"... 666.

We all think yeah 666 ok...that's six hundred and sixty six. WRONG.

The mark of the beast, is in the Babylonian Number system. Which is not on a base 10, but base 60 system.

stuweb1.gulfcoast.edu...

It is imperitive to read my sources or you aren't going to understand how the numbers work out.

Being that the Babylonian numbers are based on 60s, the true number of 666 turns out to be the number 111.

So I did a few searches online for what the number 111 is bibilically...verses or such...I got 2 things that seemed interesting, but pointless.

www.rationalchristianity.net... (This link seems to truly be coincidence, as the contradiction could be number 2000 for all we know)
www.sermonmall.com... (This seems a great possibility since it is like a list of history concerning stuff including when the Jews were enslaved by ... you guessed it ... the Babylonians.)

I figured, none of these though would really be motivational or inspirational to the book of Revelations.

"What," I thought, "would inspire someone to write of the beast in the bible?" Then it dawned on me, HISTORY!

Now, no one is sure when the book of Revelations was written, though it seems it was around the time of 93-96 AD, AND they feel it was edited later on, this is very important because of what I discovered about history concerning the year 111AD (BC Has no importance to the Church, they didn't exist then).

www.dwc.org...

Ok, so in 111 AD apparently there were several things happening in Rome. There was an Ignatius of Antioch (Perhaps some of you have heard of this)...who declares that the Church of Rome has supreme control over ALL other churchs of Christianity.

www.abcog.org...

Ok so what does all this mean?

It seems reasonable that someone in the Church in the time shortly after the year 111 AD disagreed with Ignatius of Antioch. Why do you ask?

Because the Church of Rome in the year 111 AD, more or less, is beginning to be acknowledged as consolidating it's supreme power. Rome at that time could have been little less than a place of immorality, a ses pool.

So it seems that the Beast is not a "future prophecy" but rather a "warning" that the Church will become the beast, the mark 666 is the year 111 AD, when the Church gained power over the souls of man, and as we've seen, the Roman Church did bring much darkness to the world, and for over 1000 years!

Anyways...that's about as far as I can go with this right now.

666 = year 111 AD, which is when the Church became more powerful than God.

Someone who had the opportunity to edit the Revelations after its initially presumed writings in 93 AD -97 AD must have seen it this way, and thrown in a clever key that could be seen through out all time, and possibly prevent man from becomming a slave to their own savior.

Sincerely,
no signature

I havent read the links because I have to go now but I'll say what I want to say then read, and repost


It's no suprise that the catholic church today is the whore of babylon..

it says the whore of babylon sits on seven hills.. well vatican city is literally a city bulit on seven hills..

was it seven or six, i forget..

i'll post again late.

Originally posted by Illmatic67

It's no suprise that the catholic church today is the whore of babylon..

it says the whore of babylon sits on seven hills.. well vatican city is literally a city bulit on seven hills..

Yes of course. And Islam will free us all, that's it ?

Where is my crucifix and my bible, it's time to light some woodshed and to burn some heretics !

Thanks Illimatic, I may disagree with you a lot but you've contributed a MOUNTAIN of information none-the-less.

The seven hills always has and ALWAYS WILL refer to Rome, further strengthening that my theory is correct, someone disagreed with Rome's growing "spiritual control" on the Christian Churches of the World.

(EDIT): Ah ah ahh...UP, he didn't say that...yet and probably wouldn't anyways...either way, no religious debate here! This is a great deal of research on my part and I would like it to be as scholarly as possible (I should probably lead by example...but, well, let's just say I'm indebted to you all ) anyways...so I don't think the Church is the Beast now, it feel apart in the middle ages and such, when England created the Church of England, and later when the protestants fought for their beliefs in the 30 years war...but at the time when Revelations was written, the Roman Church seems much like "THE BEAST"...anyways, let's continue with the debate and information!

Sincerely,
no signature

[Edited on 16-2-2003 by FreeMason]

ultra, i'll snatch that award off your avatar if i had a chance because you dont deserve it.

history books.

Read your history books mason, all the early churches of the apostles had
the same beliefs as the catholics.

1. why would the church edit revelation when it is seemed to go against the church?

2. God created the church and sent paul and peter to rome to convrt the most pagan of
cities.

3. 666 is the number of a man not 111.

4. 666 is meant to mean short of pefection which is inperfection.


How can god warn us of (his) church that he sent to mandkind with the
sacraments of perfection?

all churches before the church of rome came into power was the (catholic) church in doctrine and belief.

protestantism began in 1500s.

god created a church with the keys to the kingdom.

I believe 666 is the antichrist and the mark is the micro chip.

I believe vatican ll is the whore of babylon.

It is the false council of the new age.

if you knew the church and its doctrines you would know what is happening in the church.

vatican ll has changed alot of the doctrines of the church, JP2 never took a vow to not change tradition the only one in history. JP2
goal is to carry out the directions of vatican ll.


Isaiah

30:1

"" Woe to you, (apostate) children, saith the lord, that you would take (council) and not
of me, and would begin a (web), and not by my spirit, that thou might add sin upon sin ""


You wouldnt believe how many changes vatican ll has made in the church of tradition which is the
same church of the apostles.

how can you deny this?

1. God gave out his flesh to eat and drink so he could be in us and us in him "

"" he who eats my flesh lives in me and i in him ""

"" unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you do not have life in you ""

"" For as long as you eat the bread and drink the cup you (proclaim) the death of the lord until he comes ""

"" Go and baptise all creatures in the name of the father, son, holy spirit ""

"" Thou art peter and upon this rock i will build my church, aand the gates of hell shall not prevail against it ""

"" And i will give you (peter) the (keys) to the kingdom of heaven ""

"" whaatever you loose on earth is loosed in heaven, whatever you bound on earth is bound in heaven ""


How can he have the keys?

thhe bible is the keys?

it is the sacraments.


He saaid to the apostles..

"" whoever sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them ""

"" whoever sins you shall bound they are bound them ""

how can man bound sins or forgive?

infact we have a doctrine in church where priest can forgive or retain.


"" Unless you are born again of (water) and the spirit you cannot enter the kingdom of god ""

"" Indeed my flesh is food indeed and whoever so shall eat of my flesh i shall raise him up on the last day ""


you can deny this, but i cannot, the church of the apostles was our church and is our church catholic (universal) of the living god with
the sacraments of perfection.

it has become a habitation of devils over the last 40 years and satan will never stop to try and bring it down.

and few will see the almost 2000 strait years and more of historical documented miracles it has
provided to the world, the stigmatas, the priest who bleed from the face, fatima which 70000 all saw, lasalett,
padre pio, the shroud, miracles of juan diego ect...

The blood appearing on a womens toungue after recieving communion, many miracles of the eucharist.


this is the last time im talking about this, only those who (want) to see will see.

peace.

Well you wrote a lot so I'll have to absorb it, but I just want to re-itterate my point more clearly.

"The Beast and 666 in Revelations is a political statement against the Church of Rome and its actions in the years 111 AD and abouts there."

Sincerely,
no signature

I may have made a mistake.

bible.crosswalk.com...

Ignatius of Antioch apparently died on 116 AD!

Now I don't find this a coincidence, because I'm very certain (though not going to readily admit it as I haven't double checked) that 666 translates into the year 116 AD.

Because (10)1 111111 = 11 6 = 666 in Babylonian numbers. (If you've done your reading that should make sense).

So there are two possibilities.

1) Revelations and 666 and the whore on seven hills is a political statement of Rome's corruption, and restriction of freedoms concerning Christians. (most likely now with my error realized.)

2) It still stands as a political statement of the Church of Rome consolidating its power. (Probably not, but maybe later evidence will turn up to help us solve this riddle.)

Well damn, as everything with history, there are always different possibilities, but I HAVE narrowed it down to just two and the second one can probably be dismissed.

Either way linking Revelations to it being a "cryptic criticizim" of Rome, is still a marvelous find!

Sincerely,
no signature

[Edited on 16-2-2003 by FreeMason]

This is important enough just because now it gives a good chance that EITHER of the above 2 options are possible.

www.newadvent.org...

The whole event could have been anywhere from 98 - 117 AD, so concerning my findings, I'm willing to bet everything happend probably at 116 AD, and of course the editors of the book of Revelations would know this...so what this edit means though, is fuzzy still...

But hey hence the debate.

Sincerely,
no signature

Originally posted by FreeMason

We all think yeah 666 ok...that's six hundred and sixty six. WRONG.

The mark of the beast, is in the Babylonian Number system. Which is not on a base 10, but base 60 system.

This basis upon which you begin your theory is wrong. 666 in a base 60 system translates to 21,966 in base 10, not 111.

Uh no you obviously didn't do your reading Winston (Sheesh what's wrong with you people, sometimes it seems you're more out to disagree with me than to disagree with the information).

11 * 60 = 660
6 * 1 = 6
660 +6 = 666.

Wow what a hard concept crap!

And THAT is how the systems convert, not what you came up with.

Oh I see your error, you seem to think that 666 is in a Roman//Arabic//Hindu style of number system, base 10s, no it's not it is in base 60s, of the babylonian era, convert the other way please Winston.

Sincerely,
no signature

[Edited on 16-2-2003 by FreeMason]

ok FM i just have a question if the "beast" has been out since 111AD or 116 AD(doesn;t matter) does that mean that the seven bowls or wrath have already begun to pour??

So defensive Mr. Free Mason...

I'm simply pointing out error, where error exists.

First, there is no "6" in the Babylonian math characters (see chart below). So, if we are to examine "666" as a base 60 number as you described (which is not completely unviable since the authors of the Bible may certainly have been converting the digits as best they knew how), we can assume the "6" is the sixth numeral in the number system of 59 numerals.

so we have:
6 --------------- = 6
6 X 60^1 ----- = 360
6 X 60^2 ----- = 21600
----------------- + ---------
----------------- = 21,966

The actual Babylonian numerals are below:





[Edited on 16-2-2003 by Winston Smith]

What's that question have to do with anything? I'm not going into the "prophetic meaning" but the historical context, and where the idea all came about.

Sincerely,
no signature

There is no error winston, now you deserve to be called an idiot. 666 IS in babylonian, 116 is in OUR base 10, sheesh.

Sincerely,
no signature

If memory serves me two children were abandoned and brought up by Wolves, named Romus and Remus who later built Rome on Seven Hills. So the story of Wolves in Sheep clothing has perhaps meaning.
Peter as he entered the gate called bueatiful saw a man who was a cripple, speaking he said take heed and the man put out his hand. Peter spoke "Gold and Silver I have not but what God has given me recieve", in which the man stood and began to jump around like a Monkey in planet of the apes until he feel at Peter's feet. Peter told the man that he was wrong for bowing down before him. Current Church pratice has people who bow before them which Peter himself forbid this man to do.
So we today watch the Priest's who have taken and broken the trust of it's people and committed the worst crime. Christ declared it would be better for a person to take a mill stone and hang it around their neck and be cast into the sea, then to hurt even one Hair of a Child.
Whore of Babaylon, with it's Merchants weeping, that we hear how the Church is broke from all the lawsuits against it.

Myself, freely I was given the Word of God, so that I too shall freely give to those who ask to drink his spirit, Christ spoke to the church saying " you've taken my house of prayer and turned it into a den of thieves"

Michael

Mr. Free Mason, you are so stubborn in your contrived theories and ideas you are unable to see your own error when it occurs. Please refer to the link below which confirms the conversion method I showed.

Babylonian sexagesimal

So, for converting 666 from sexagesimal to decimal, the below is indeed correct:
6 --------------- = 6
6 X 60^1 ----- = 360
6 X 60^2 ----- = 21600
----------------- + ---------
----------------- = 21,966


666 as sexagesimal is a six numeral number.

[Edited on 16-2-2003 by Winston Smith]

I'm not stubborn...we aren't "Converting to decimal" forgive me on that bit, we are taking the year 116, seperating it into its components (11 in the tens, 6 in the ones).

11 in the "tens" place in Babylonian is 660, and 6 in the "ones" in babylonian is 6...making 666, see?

That's all I mean, not the decimal thing people have done that theory before...which means nothing.

(EDIT): No wait damn it, Winston you fool! You did it again.

666 is the BABYLONIAN NUMBER, by your way this is what it comes out to.

6*60^0---------6
1*60^1---------6
10*60^1-------6

Sheesh...pay attention man...we are taking the NUMBERS ON THE RIGHT, to equal the BABYLONIAN NUMBERS of 666. Which = 116 AD, which is such an IMPORTANT time in the history of the Church, and so near to the making of Revelations, that this coincidence can not be over looked!

Sincerely,
no signature

[Edited on 16-2-2003 by FreeMason]

You wrote this: "Being that the Babylonian numbers are based on 60s, the true number of 666 turns out to be the number 111."

Are you backing off on that statement then, admitting error?

And your entire first post was based on the number 111, implying your conversion from Babylonian 666 to decimal was important.

No I wrote that but later wanted to "edit" it and then decided "well if someone brings that up then I can clarify I meant that when you take the figure 666 and find it's roots in a decimal system, you get 116" but I didn't realize the person bringing it up would be such a Dick

And conversion from babylonian to decimal IS important, you are doing it all wrong you twit.

You are taking the number 666 in DECIMALS and converting it to Babylonian...when what you SHOULD be doing is taking 666 in BABYLONIAN and converting it to decimals, giving you 116!

because as I've said MANY times...

11*60^1 = 660 and 6*60^0 = 6!

Why can't you grasp that?

Hell if you want proof you are being an idiot, look at your own damn source...it shows you that 1million in babylonian is less than 1million in a decimal system, therefore 666 can't be GREATER than 666 in a decimal system, as you are showing...sheesh

Sincerely,
no signature

[Edited on 16-2-2003 by FreeMason]