Why pretend race doesn't matter?

reply to post by OldDragger


I gave you a detailed answer. It was just not the answer you wanted. Since you won't answer my question's; why should anyone think your motives are not simply driven by your own Bigotry?

Are you an operative of the DNC?

Originally posted by Eight
Let me give you an example of something that is not racist IMO but is a little odd and that is when Obama was running for office, commentators constantly said "he speaks well". Me being black, took offense to this because why are they so surprised that a black man can speak well. And I wasn't the only one, many blacks speak just as well as Obama.

I can't speak for the commentators, but I'll say that from what I've seen, Obama speaks better than most whites, blacks, Hispanics, etc.
He's just an excellent speaker, I don't see what that has to do with skin color.
You can take offense to that... But I really don't think there's any reason to be offended.

Originally posted by Eight
But lets be honest,no president has come under the same level of scrutiny that Obama has.

I think that's really just an opinion.
I don't know how to go about proving that or the opposite view, so I'm not going to try.

Originally posted by Eight
Now now you have this young white preacher named Steven Anderson who is calling for the death of Obama and A member of his church showed up at his town hall meeting with a loaded AK-47.

We can't say this is normal behavior because it's not.

Such behavior is never 'normal'...
However if you're saying that such threats only happen to Obama (because he's black, I take it), then I have to ask - where have you been the last 8 years?

www.zombietime.com...

What took place during the past 8 years was, in my opinion, far beyond the level of hatred Obama is receiving...

The link above shows a few "Kill Bush" t-shirts (among other things)... But doing a quick google search, I can't seem to find any "Kill Obama" t-shirts (which is good!).
Just sayin'.

And just to be clear...
I'm not saying there aren't racist in America - it's obvious that there are.
I'm saying there's too much hooplah about racism now that we have a black President. The race card is constantly being used - and it's starting to get old.
I doubt that even 1% of the time the racist card is being used to defend Obama, it's justified.

reply to post by stevegmu


Can you prove anything you have said in your last two posts? For example, Obama is good friends with the new Black Panther party.

Originally posted by TruthParadox


I can't speak for the commentators, but I'll say that from what I've seen, Obama speaks better than most whites, blacks, Hispanics, etc.
He's just an excellent speaker, I don't see what that has to do with skin color.
You can take offense to that... But I really don't think there's any reason to be offended.

We come from two different backgrounds so I can understand why you don't think it is offensive, but it is. It's the same as one of my co-workers that is from the middle east point things out to me that he objects to but I did see it because of our different backgrounds and life experiences.

Such behavior is never 'normal'...
However if you're saying that such threats only happen to Obama (because he's black, I take it), then I have to ask - where have you been the last 8 years?

That is why I was specific. I have never seen an election campaign that have people yelling "kill him" in my life. You see, that's the thing with being black, you don't know if things are racism or incidental.

Me,I most always choose the latter because I don't believe in playing the race card. I'm just saying that the things that are being said and done since Obama ran and got elected president I have never seen before.

What took place during the past 8 years was, in my opinion, far beyond the level of hatred Obama is receiving...

I will admit that things got pretty bad For Bush toward the end there, OMG he even had a shoe thrown at him. But I don't recall Rush and Hannity hounding him like they do Obama.

The link above shows a few "Kill Bush" t-shirts (among other things)... But doing a quick google search, I can't seem to find any "Kill Obama" t-shirts (which is good!).
Just sayin'.

Point well made.

And just to be clear...
I'm not saying there aren't racist in America - it's obvious that there are.

I know you're not and I never took it that you were.

I'm saying there's too much hooplah about racism now that we have a black President. The race card is constantly being used - and it's starting to get old.

I totally agree, and that is where I'm at. Everything that happens it's always motivated by race. You know what I'm tired of, the man can't say boo without some one like Rush making a big deal out of it.

The man promised his wife a dinner and a dance if he got elected and he kept it and I heard about it for weeks. But I didn't hear a peep out of these same people about him paying for the renovations to the white house out of his own pocket.

Or the playground set they bought not only for their kids but for all the kids that come to the White House.

I doubt that even 1% of the time the racist card is being used to defend Obama, it's justified.

How do you think we got this way? Just think about it, no where in history has race been an issue with the presidency. So what does that say about society when we have these kinds of debates when any race other than white holds that office?





[edit on 14-9-2009 by Eight]

reply to post by Blaine91555

I didn't answer your questions because they are completly irrelevant to the subject of racial prejudice towards the President.Ii didn't start this thread for wild goose chases, and am under no obligation to answer anything, particularly questions as silly as those.
Yeah, I'm a DNC operative dispatched by The President and Madam Speaker themselves to quell the all important ATS boards as they are getting TOO CLOSE to our dastardly plans!Good thing i have extensive CIA disinfo traing!
On an unrealated note, I would like to thank all those that have posted intelligent comments!

Originally posted by OldDragger

Over and over i hear people say that Obama's race doesn't matter. Of course it does.

Instead of listening when you hear people say Over and Over again that Obama's race doesn't matter, you are the one who still insists it does. But thanks for trying to start something, I hope it garnered for you all the attention you wanted.

A fool is a fool no matter what it looks like.

reply to post by Hazelnut


I think you are the one not listening!
Intersting how agitated you "there is no racism" types become, while lots of other people have posted thoughtful and insightful comments about the subject.
If you don't like this thread, don't read or post on it. simple eh?
There are plenty of other threads you might enjoy.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
If Obama were white, he wouldn't have the protection of the "race card"

What does it protect him from?

The race card does not protect Obama any more than the "Anti-American card" protected Bush. Obama gets criticized, people say they're racist. Bush got criticized, people said they were Anti-American.

The race card is not protecting Obama from anything. He is every bit as criticized as Bush was, if not more. And the criticisms against Bush were overwhelmingly for something he DID. Not for his friends, his religion, his birthplace, his associates or what he MIGHT do.

And some Obama supporters may use the race card, but he, himself, does not.

In some people's eyes, there is no legitimate criticism of Obama that does not involve the truly unimportant color of his skin.

I really don't know anyone who believes that, but I've heard of them. Most Obama supporters know that there are legitimate criticisms of Obama.

The absurdity comes when Republicans are forced, in a way, to get someone such as Michael Steele to carry their banner, as he is 'immune' to the 'race card' as he is also black.

I think they picked Steel BECAUSE of his color because they thought it would be to their advantage. And, like you said, it was a very racist thing to do. I'm surprised he let his skin color be used like that. But I do think that move has backfired on them.

Originally posted by Eight


Let me give you an example of something that is not racist IMO but is a little odd and that is when Obama was running for office, commentators constantly said "he speaks well". Me being black, took offense to this because why are they so surprised that a black man can speak well. And I wasn't the only one, many blacks speak just as well as Obama.

Yes, I made the mistake of praising a black student once on what I thought was an excellent speech. She had basically the same reaction as you.

In fact, I wasn't "surprised" at all. I was a teacher in the habit of encouraging students when they did something well.

I have also sometimes praised white students on their speaking ability and haven't had the same reaction from them. Maybe they didn't assume I was surprised.

I happen to think Barack Obama is an excellent speaker. I also think the same of FDR and John F. Kennedy and Winston Churchill and a whole host of other historic figures, including -- yes -- Frederick Douglas.

But I've learned to be very careful when I compliment African Americans on it.

From my perspective, it seems a bit touchy. But it doesn't kill me to withhold praise if it's going to offend someone.

reply to post by Sestias


The fault is not with you or others that say something along those lines, the fault lies with us; and you touched on it a bit in your post.

The reason it is our fault is because we assume whites are a monolithic race when we lump all whites in with those that do and have viewed blacks as dumb and inferior, and I apologized for that.

It's a knee jerk reaction and nothing more and we end up diminishing a praise that was given in earnest. To be honest those commentators didn't mean it in a negative way but scars of the pass make you see thing that aren't really there, and I admit that.

Originally posted by Eight
We come from two different backgrounds so I can understand why you don't think it is offensive, but it is. It's the same as one of my co-workers that is from the middle east point things out to me that he objects to but I did see it because of our different backgrounds and life experiences.

But the offense is assumed.
Which is the problem, the person making a comment with no ill intent or the person assuming the comment is offensive?
I can't help it if something I say offends someone else.
I've known a few women, for example, who get offended by a simple remark such as "your hair looks nice today". They assume I mean "your hair looks like crap every other day but today". I can't help it that they assume that. But THEY can. If they didn't make that assumption, there wouldn't be an argument, there wouldn't be a problem, and we all continue with our lives.
If we all assumed less, racism wouldn't be the big issue it is today.
Because much of the racism I've seen is assumed.

Originally posted by Eight
I have never seen an election campaign that have people yelling "kill him" in my life. You see, that's the thing with being black, you don't know if things are racism or incidental.

I would highlight that second sentence above all else.
No one knows.
And I wish everyone made less assumptions about their fellow man.
It's also a pity that the assumptions made appear to be negative more often than not.

Originally posted by Eight
Me,I most always choose the latter because I don't believe in playing the race card. I'm just saying that the things that are being said and done since Obama ran and got elected president I have never seen before.

That's a fair opinion and I respect that.
But I also respectfully disagree that the disrespect and hatred is something new for a sitting President.

Originally posted by Eight
But I don't recall Rush and Hannity hounding him like they do Obama.

That's because they're Republicans.
But I do recall Keith Olbermann and other far left news commentators hounding Bush far worse than I've seen Hannity hound Obama.
And I suppose if Hannity did so, he would be labeled a racist.
Or is he already?

Originally posted by Eight
I totally agree, and that is where I'm at. Everything that happens it's always motivated by race. You know what I'm tired of, the man can't say boo without some one like Rush making a big deal out of it.

He gets paid to do it.
Just as others got paid to criticize every little thing Bush did.
I hope you're not ignoring the evils and biases of the left.
Coming from an independent view, I can tell you there are plenty of evils on both sides.

Originally posted by Eight
The man promised his wife a dinner and a dance if he got elected and he kept it and I heard about it for weeks. But I didn't hear a peep out of these same people about him paying for the renovations to the white house out of his own pocket.

Similarly, Sarah Palin's wardrobe was under high scrutiny for at least a week.
This is just how these people work. Right OR left.
It's what pays the bills. What sells newspapers.
If there isn't any drama, stir some up.
This is our media. It's what's for dinner... unfortunately.

Originally posted by Eight

I doubt that even 1% of the time the racist card is being used to defend Obama, it's justified.

How do you think we got this way? Just think about it, no where in history has race been an issue with the presidency. So what does that say about society when we have these kinds of debates when any race other than white holds that office?

Well, as I've said - from what I've seen most of the blame lies in assuming.
But just a few thoughts...
The media controls public opinion. The media wants a story. The media creates drama under the guise of race to rile people up. The people buy the hype and believe a large amount of Americans are racist. The people start assuming all the more.
We've been trained to assume.
Whites have been trained to bend over backwards to prove they are not racist. In doing so, racism is kept alive.
Universities, in an effort to not appear racist, have a race quota. In accepting people based on their skin color, racism is kept alive.

I think Americans are so afraid of racism, that they allow the very idea of racism to trample over them.
It's like the boy who continually cries wolf. So many Americans are continually crying "racism" without adequate cause. The ironic thing is that it's hurting the cause. It obscures *real* cases of racism and blinds most to all racism in which the minority is not the victim.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by TruthParadox
If Obama were white, he wouldn't have the protection of the "race card"

What does it protect him from?

The race card does not protect Obama any more than the "Anti-American card" protected Bush. Obama gets criticized, people say they're racist. Bush got criticized, people said they were Anti-American.

Well from my perception, it does protect Obama.
Consider that the leftist media, such as MSNBC, will report to a large number of viewers that the tea parties are extremist and at least partially based on race. When you highlight this race aspect above all else, and report it to millions of individuals who are equally willing to gobble it up, it discredits any credit the movement may have.
Consider a biased reporting of the Joe Wilson incident. Whether there was any validity in the "You lie!" statement or not (and for the record I don't believe there was) matters little, because a biased reporter has a very powerful shield to use for just such an occasion.
Joe Wilson = white.
Barack Obama = black.
This reeks of racism. (can you believe some news sources actually made such an assumption? Going from 'A' to 'Z' and only managing to see the letters 'R', 'A', 'C', 'I', 'S', and 'M'.)

Of course the "race card" isn't going to stop criticism... Instead it seeks to discredit that criticism.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
He is every bit as criticized as Bush was, if not more.

Maybe so (though not from what I've seen). But that doesn't change the fact that the "race card" has already been used countless times to discredit the right.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And the criticisms against Bush were overwhelmingly for something he DID. Not for his friends, his religion, his birthplace, his associates or what he MIGHT do.

To be fair, Bush wasn't friends with any terrorists (well, I know some on ATS who might disagree ), Bush didn't attend a church which damned America, Bush didn't have any evidence which suggested he was really "Barry Soetoro" - a Muslim from Indonesia.
Let's be honest... The Republicans had a Hell of a lot to work with.
If Bush had the same traits as listed above, do you honestly think the left wouldn't have vehemently pointed them out?
Be honest now...

Politics doesn't give a damn what race you are.
It's more than willing to dissect your past and use anything remotely plausible against you.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And some Obama supporters may use the race card, but he, himself, does not.

I agree Obama does not.
But then again he doesn't need to when the media keeps doing it for him...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I really don't know anyone who believes that, but I've heard of them. Most Obama supporters know that there are legitimate criticisms of Obama.

Even so, racism is often assumed.
Just watch MSNBC one night...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think they picked Steel BECAUSE of his color because they thought it would be to their advantage. And, like you said, it was a very racist thing to do. I'm surprised he let his skin color be used like that. But I do think that move has backfired on them.

I think it backfired as well.
Just another example of how ridiculously absurd this game of politics can be, and how unbelievably stupid some politicians think the American population is.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Whites have been trained to bend over backwards to prove they are not racist.

This is SUCH an important point here. Because we're discussing how black people sometimes assume offense because of their history. This statement speaks to the fact that white people have a history of their own to deal with. And in dealing with it, we do bend over backwards to prove that we're NOT racist or that we DON'T mean offense.

Before I learned this, I was at an outside party and I was shooting baskets at the hoop they had set up. A black guy walked up to me and asked "Where did you get the ball"? And I, having a somewhat shocking sense of humor, said, "What's it to ya"? and smiled. He took offense because I WASN'T careful. He turned, head down, and left. I went after him, telling him that I was messing with him, but the damage was already done. I was at the party with my black boyfriend!

It seems whenever the two people of different color meet, there's a tension on one part or the other ... and that's so sad. I have never really been able to forgive myself for offending that guy. I know I was just being myself and I don't believe in being "careful", but I added one more experience of white people being assholes to his experience. And I hate that.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Consider a biased reporting of the Joe Wilson incident.

I understand what you're saying and I agree that the media jumps all over that stuff. I'm sick of it. But about the Joe Wilson thing, I think there absolutely could have been a racial element. In a body as big and old and the joint session of Congress, there are many who still carry around the mindset of the 50s and 60s. I think, to many of them, it's more acceptable to break social norms because Obama is black. I think that the disrespect of the Office of President comes easier to some because of Obama's skin color.

Wilson was a proponent of flying the Confederate flag over the S. Carolina Capitol and dismissed Strom Thurmond's daughter as a "smear" after Thurmond had acknowledged her. There are indications here that he thinks less of Obama in the Office than he would if Obama were white. It's not proof, but I'm not sure it's the best example.

Of course the "race card" isn't going to stop criticism... Instead it seeks to discredit that criticism.

Agreed. Just as the "Anti-American" card did for Bush. I got called that and "peacenik" so many times, I can't tell you!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Maybe so (though not from what I've seen). But that doesn't change the fact that the "race card" has already been used countless times to discredit the right.

Agreed. The problem is that it isn't (pardon the term) black and white. Some of the right are clearly upset that we have a black president. The media takes this fact and grows it to smear the entire right with. Again, that's politics and today's media. A volatile and useless combination.

Let's be honest... The Republicans had a Hell of a lot to work with.
If Bush had the same traits as listed above, do you honestly think the left wouldn't have vehemently pointed them out?
Be honest now...

Oh, I absolutely do! Bush DID have questionable associates of his own, though. If you look at some of the more "underground" sources at the time, they were exploited there, but it never made it to MSM. Because they were big oil and politicians, people with money. Not "terrorists". Not to mention his drunk driving, coc aine use, the National Guard fiasco, etc. GW Bush Skeletons

Great posts!



[edit on 15-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Let's set the record straight:

Obama's title is the President of the United States.

His title is NOT The Black President of the United States.

His title is NOT The African American President of the United States.

Got it?


/thread

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by TruthParadox
If Obama were white, he wouldn't have the protection of the "race card"

What does it protect him from?

Doesn't really protect him, but it does give his supporters an oppurtunity to deflect from the real issues, IMO, most of which are centered around Obamas integrity.

Originally posted by OldDragger

Why pretend race doesn't matter?

It would seem to me those who act like race doesn't matter would be the least racist.

Maybe if more people began pretending it didn't matter, it wouldn't.

Hmmmm, several posters here insist there is no racism at all!
Guess that proves it! LOL
I stand by my OP, at least 20% of the Obama criticism is because of race.
GET REAL, RACE HAS ALWAYS MATTERED IN AMERICA! Have you guys even a passing knowledge of American history?
Any thoughts in light of the new ATS racism policy?

Originally posted by OldDragger
Hmmmm, several posters here insist there is no racism at all!

Watching TV last night, I heard Bill O'Reilly, Gretchen Carlson and Margaret Hoover talking about how much of the anti-Obama sentiment they thought was racially motivated and one of the women said they thought 15-25% would be their guess. I cannot find a clip, so I can't verify that, but if anyone else heard it, perhaps they could chime in. It was the same show in which they were talking about Serena Williams.

Any thoughts in light of the new ATS racism policy?

My thought is that I hope people like LordBucket, who are in touch with their feelings and open to discussions on race without the rhetoric are not penalized. I doubt very much that they will be. ATS, as an entity, has a very reliable reputation of recognizing problem issues and nipping them in the bud, in my opinion.

reply to post by LordBucket


Well, I would like to ask, did you have any other times in your life where you were attacked by someone? If the answer is yes, did this cause you to have "fear" for that particular tribe of people?

Personally, I had kind of the same thing as you happen to me as a kid. BUT... the difference was ... I was always getting into fights, many times I would fight with people of my same skin color, my parents would call me a wuss if I lost, and tell me good job if I won. The ONE time, I was attacked by a black person, my parents said to me "see, all black people will try to beat you up." The hypocrisy? Never mentioning the ten dozen other fights I had been in with many other children with my same skin color.

As for the rest of your posting, I do not think it acceptable to dislike people just for their race, religion, sex, politics etc. For me, it is how the person talks to and treats others that cause a dislike for them within me.

And, well, on the IQ testing, any child born into poverty will most likely have lower IQ's, it is as simple as that. Not having good long term health care, and not having healthy eating, as well as not having educated parents who work to teach their children will also cause lower IQ's.

Now, the other issue, one race, not multiple. We have many different cultures and many different ethnicitys(sp?), but we only have the human race. Science has proven through genetic testing, that basically we are all related.

The human genome sequence is almost exactly the same (99.9%) in all people.

So you, and every other person on this planet, have genes that are 99.9% the same. It is that .01% that gives us blond, black, red or brown hair, or green, brown or blue eyes, or if we are short or tall etc.

DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans. While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair color can be identified between individuals, no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. There also is no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity.

We are all cousins.

www.ornl.gov...

It is a very interesting, if very in depth and huge site. Enjoy.

I would say though, that one observation I have had, would be that some people who are racist in some way, will deny or refute the scientific information. Not ALL but SOME.

Anyway, I agree that race is an issue for many people, not all. I myself, having grown up in an intensely racist family, do find myself "bending over backwards" to prove I am not racist. I am sure, I have issues to deal with that even I may not be aware of.

I have very diverse looking features, and at one time I dyed my hair black. I did not even think about it, other than I was blond, and liked black so wanted my hair black (I was young). After only a few weeks I went and paid a lot of money to have my hair changed. I had never been treated so horribly in my life. So I can say, that in a very minor way, I have been on the receiving end of racism, and I can guarantee it is not a pleasant feeling, and I have remembered it ever since. It definitely affected the way I think of people.

Let's give some of the minor examples here, having grown up blond, I never noticed that people were more likely to show me respect just because. A small issue was, while I had black hair, people ignored me when I stood at a counter for assistance until I would speak up, people would rush in front of me to a door, and then not hold the door for me, when standing in line people would stare at me "sideways" and would slightly move away. The biggest issue was I had far more invasive actions towards my person physically by strangers without my permission, with a reaction that I was a "B###h" when I balked at these invasive actions, as if I had no right to expect that my person would not be assaulted.

It was suddenly as if, having black hair, turned me into "something" instead of "someone". I can't imagine growing up with such feelings, the effect it had on me after just a few weeks compared to a lifetime? Race is an issue, I know we don't like to admit it, but it is.

Now, on the other end of this, I have gone in to apply for state assistance for health care for my children, in this way I was discriminated against because I am white, (or at least look white, my family genealogy is very diverse. Yes, go figure my family is so racist, never understood it myself) and was treated with disrespect for even thinking I had a right to ask for help. I so wanted to scream out stop lumping people into categories of skin color and start looking at the specific person that comes into your office.

So, hope I did not offend anyone.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by OldDragger
Hmmmm, several posters here insist there is no racism at all!

Who here has insisted there is no racism at all? =o

Originally posted by OldDragger
I stand by my OP, at least 20% of the Obama criticism is because of race.

Where, besides your anus, did you pull that number from?

Originally posted by OldDragger
GET REAL, RACE HAS ALWAYS MATTERED IN AMERICA! Have you guys even a passing knowledge of American history?

It does matter. But to many of us it doesn't.
I suppose that's not the answer you wanted to hear...