Columbine film 'inspired' accused

reply to post by AnonymousMoose


Now Now. Calm down. It’s a lot harder to stab someone then to walk around shooting people. No one is saying that by taking guns away people will not keep killing each other. Its just by taking the guns away you make it harder for people to kill each other.

reply to post by kode


The problem isn't the firearms. Its the attitudes and culture of the people in some areas.

I live in the southern US. Almost all of us learned to shoot no later than age 10 and there are enough guns within a 25 mile radius of where I type this to outfit a sizeable army. Violent crime is minimal and the streets are all perfectly safe to walk at any time. That's not solely because of the high gun ownership rates, mind you, but because of the attitudes of the people towards their neighbors.

One other thing I would point out: about 1/3rd of all US homicides yearly do not involve firearms. That's over 6,000 per year. This suggests that even if a successful firearms ban could be implemented, a large number of perpetrators would simply switch to another weapon and in the best case scenario, the overall reduction in homicides might only be 20-30%...and that's assuming criminals aren't emboldened by the fact that the citizenry is now disarmed.

The point is, I see no reason to outlaw firearms in the United States. To do so would be to deprive close to 100 million citizens of a right they have never and will never abuse. In doing so, there's a decent possibility that you'd gain nothing. The solution, IMO, is to aleviate the stresses that cause people to act out violently and number one on that list would be to improve the quality of life in our inner cities so that the citizens, in their desperation, do not turn to a life of violent crime and gang warfare. That's easier said than done, but would be more likely to fix the underlying problem than a firearms ban.

reply to post by stevegmu



But there would still be less guns and less opotunity for people to shoot at each other.

reply to post by kode


They were more than children. They were disturbed, and either way. They would have killed.

If you don't like Americans owning guns, then don't come here. Stay in your country.

Americans want the right to bear arms, and the people generally support it. There's a trend in our government. Anyone who passes gun legislation tends to not get re-elected afterwards.

Unless you're an American citizen, I suggest you worry about your own affairs.

And I do think it's fair to blame Michael Moore. He and the media grossly mis-represent guns in our society. Anyone who looks passed the media's ranting and into real statistics tend to end up supporting our 2nd Amendment.

But hey, since we're throwing out advice to other countries, then I think YOUR country should have an amendment, as our does in your constitution (or respective documents). You know those criminals with guns? Make them scared! Let them know that by the time the cops get there, they won't be going to jail, they'll be going to the coroner.

reply to post by vor78


Sure changing peoples attitudes would go a long way to making the dire situation you have in America when it comes to guns better. However I still do somewhat feel your reply to be an excuse. After all is it not attitude that is born from having the power of owning gun?

reply to post by Miraj


Yes but your country and its guns are affecting my country. Had them Columbine boys not had guns then a very different outcome may have occurred which was not so tragic. And may have not been so "inspiring" to our two misguided accused here in the UK.

reply to post by kode


We're all a product of our environment, at least to some degree. I've lived my life in an area with extremely high rates of firearms ownership, but also one that has little to no violent crime. Certainly, it shapes my opinion of the topic, because it tells me that there's nothing inherent in firearms ownership that leads one to a life of violent crime. For that reason, I can see no justifiable reason to apply a ban on firearms and to deprive those responsible citizens of their rights.

reply to post by kode


I think the problem with those children is that they find murdering innocent people inspiring. Rather than what inspired them.

I think you should stop blaming America.

I think your argument is pointless. Why should I lose my right to defend myself because another abused it?

Maybe people shouldn't drive. If there were no cars then there could be no car crashes.

reply to post by kode


Last year, DC was forced to lift the hand gun ban. Guess how many homicides or accidental shootings were committed by legal gun owners in the past 12 months? None, while there have been 100 gun homicides this year committed by criminals who owned guns illegally. The guns aren't the problem. People are. Making guns harder to get would only ensure criminals have access to them.

America is the blame for these young men wanting to harm others even if as they say in "fantasy"? These males were fantasizing about violence before they saw Bowling for Columbine and one should look at the environment in which they spend the most time. There are many questions one could ask to get a clearer picture of these young men and why they harbor such hatred for humanity but blaming one movie and an entire nation somehow don't seem logical.


For the life of me why do people think guns being prohibited would stop this type of anti-social behavior. For the record it will not. Before there was guns you had violent people who did terrible things to their fellow human beings.

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Chai_An]

Originally posted by kode
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But there would still be less guns and less opotunity for people to shoot at each other.

Then they could stab, club, or do all kinds of things to one another to cause injury and death. It would be easier if people would just follow the golden rule of doing unto others as you would have done unto you to eliminate many of society's troubles.

reply to post by Chai_An


I won't ever understand it.. but people of more liberal beliefs are simply somtimes outraged that we (the US.) doesn't "Keep up with the rest of the world"

Personally I believe gun issues are caused more by culture. If you look at countries such as Austrailia and Britain. Who gave up firearms (Well austrailians have a better access to certain types now) their gun crime rates actually rose. They never had a big issue with it to begin with.

But look at Brazil. They have much more stricter laws than the US, they have a smaller population but they still have a bigger issue with gun crime and gun incidents than Americans do.

Availability to guns is not always linked to gun crime/incidents.

Do we outlaw Propane? The kids at Columbine had at least two bombs made from 20 Lb. Propane canisters. If they had no firearms they would have made more bombs. The premise that less arms mean less crime or death is false and the crime rates in the UK prove this fact. The victimization of your citizens by laws that do not even allow the right of self protection shows that your politicians think of you as subjects to be ruled not citizens to be represented!
Michal Moore is nothing but an opportunist that uses others grief to further his goal of riches and notoriety! He's a pimp for violence and every time someone uses him as an excuse he gains by that event. He cares nothing for anyone but himself and his goal of destroying this country!

Zindo

reply to post by kode


Anyone stupid enough to let a movie influence them into doing something heinous needs to be neutered.

This way they cannot taint the population with their seed.

My parents taught me the difference between reality and Hollywood and its lies.

Maybe he deserves to get one of the many Darwin Awards?

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

Originally posted by kode


Well there you go. Inspired by Columbine. This is your American gun culture and its effect on the rest the world. I remember a member here saying something along the lines of people are not influenced by movie. I was when I was younger I was a regular Rambo. Hunting knife strapped to my side in my own fantasy world I took on the Viet Cong. These guys took that world a step further. And children may have died.

I enjoy watching horror and the occasional action movie but I would forgo these films for the sake of the mindless idiots who don’t understand the difference between fiction and reality. Thank the gods these fools did not have easy access to guns!

Now I know it appears the movie was shown to them in school as an educational subject but nether the less it goes to show the power of film, and I would expect this movie mixed with pointless American Hollywood violence warped these young minds only confirming their inspiration and glorifying there misguided cause.

If i sound anti American let me assure you I am not. Its just occasionaly Americas idiocracy angers me deeply.

If only it had not been so easy for Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold to get thier hands on them guns.

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

sounds like you are blaming Michael Moore, the filmmaker, and I like that, I like that a lot

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by kode

 

You don't sound anti-American. You just sound like you're blaming America.

Please don't blame America, or America's Gun culture. Contrary to popular European belief American's are not on every street corner having gun fights. (Yes, I've talked to people who honestly believed this.)

Millions of American gun owners DID NOT shoot someone today. With your opening statements you effectively lumped mentally ill and violent people with plenty of peaceful people who simply enjoy the rights that we believe in.

It's kind of like lumping violent alcoholics that cause car crashes with everyone that enjoys a couple drinks now and then.

But hey, if you want to use the fantasies of a mentally ill boy to prove your argument against the right to defend yourself, go right ahead. As long as you have that right, because you have no means to protect that right.

I'm British, and clearly these boys are not the fault of American "gun culture" (whatever that is, I imagine most people who LEGALLY own a firearm do not break the law with their weapons)

Our own British "culture" is pretty debased, lack of respect for authority, women having kids with various fathers, state picking up the bill etc

What the media DOESNT report is that the school the 2 boys attended was a Technological school, where no doubt theyd have had access or shown how to make improvised explosives, remember the old Magnesium and Water trick.
These 2 boys couldnt have caused as much damage or deaths as Columbine due to the fact there was only ever going to be 2 crude home-made bombs built in the first place, even large scale fireworks have more explosive capability than anything these 2 boys were planning.
Guns would have been impossible for them to obtain unless they happened to come across a section of the IRA/Al Quaeda in Manchester and had a spare 10 million quid on them for AK47's.
I still believe this was a false-flag event by the police that was discovered by a whistleblower and so their only alternative was to frame these 2 boys (who were social outcasts anyway) and say THEY were the one planning the operation.

I don't think Michael Moore should take the blame because of his movie. He didn't glorify the violence at all and only a very unstable person would have read that into it.

I think some action-adventure movies and films like "Natural Born Killers" (that's an old one, I know, but it had an impact on a lot of people) can be more easily blamed for inciting violence. They make heroes out of killers.

Michael Moore's movie was just an opportunity for these boys to find some young people like themselves who were violent and if it wasn't that movie it would have been another one on the same subject.

Whatever you think of Michael Moore and his philosophy, he doesn't advocate violence.

Mate, don't blame the American gun culture for the inadequacies of some manc parents.

They want guns, we don't want guns. They think we're mad, we think they're crazy. Vive la difference.

Although, to be frank, if a child was looking for a gun, he could do a lot worse than Gunchester.

America and its gun culture influences peoples attitude across the globe whether you accept it or not. Its not worth arguing the statistics because they don’t mean anything as they get fiddled to suit. I tend to go with my gut feeling and that’s what it says.