Alternatives for firearms

I see alot of posts where it's stated that the member cannot actually train with a firearm. It might be helpful to know that there are a number of alternatives which can perform every function (if not more) than a gun.

Personal Protection: You don't need a gun to protect yourself from a gunman. Self defense against a gunman is pretty straightforward. Get into a position where you can't be shot, or take control of the gun. You don't have to take possession of it, but you do need a firm control on where it's pointing. It is my opinion that a knife is much more dangerous than a gun. Why? A knife is dangerous no matter who is holding it and no matter which way it's pointed. You can't control a knife blade as you can a gun barrel. A knife has no recoil. A knife makes no sound to track. A knife doesn't run out of ammunition.

The military K-Bar is a one of the most useful survival tools you can own. If you can, pass up the stainless and go with a carbon-coated blade as they are easier to conceal. If a K-Bar is not your style, consider the following alternatives.

1. Throwing knives. These are inexpensive (usually USD10.00/3), readily available and pretty fun to use. Learn to use them properly. The over-hand throw you see on television is not very accurate and the dynamics of impact is laughable. If done right, an underhanded throw has more power and insane accuracy. The balance of the knife is very important as it will effect impact more than anything. Slightly higher weight in the blade is usually preferably as it will assist in the knife's position when it hits the target. A hilt-heavy knife is pointless unless you intend your throw to inflict blunt-damage. Do not swing the arm, but flick. The knife should travel a straight path from starting position to release and complete only a half-rotation before hitting the target. This is assuming your target is at a middle-range (About 10-15 yards). At close range, accuracy isn't as important and I've seen overhand throws that were pretty devastating. This is more about what you are comfortable with. You'll learn to range your target and adjust your throw appropriately. The benefits of learning to use throwing knives are substantial. You can't run out of ammunition, it's not a common form of combat, it is accurate if done properly, and it's an inexpensive form of target practice. (I'm avoiding specific phrases for a reason.)

2. Shuriken- Chinese throwing stars. The actual translation for the word is 'sword hidden in the hand'. While the throwing star is a type of shuriken, a steel rod, three- and four-point stars, and even nails can be used. Aerodynamics is important. Use of a shuriken is simple. Throw it. With bo-shuriken, (that's the spikes) the same rules apply as knife throwing. With stars (Hira is apparently their name... even I learned something here), it's a simple matter of throwing it accurately. Most have directed points, so the position you hold the shuriken will effect impact. You have to hold it a certain direction to all it's spin to produce impact sink. Use here is much simpler, but you'd be surprised how difficult it is to master. Wind will effect your throw, depending on the weight and thickness of the shuriken. There are schools of martial arts which teach their use. Consider instruction.

3. Axes. One of the most useful tools ever invented by man. Not very accurate for throwing unless you REALLY know what you're doing. I never got much practice, but I've seen them used to great effect.

4. Bow-and-arrow. Standard bows can be cured wood and layers of compressed, adhesed wood. The making of an actual non-compound bow can be difficult, but you can figure it out if you have to. (Unless you need a bow that is made of adhesed, cured woods... then you need a pro). Compound bows use a system of pulleys to increase the mechanical output of the bow. A 'draw' is the amount of force necessary to pull the string into a firing position (knocking). (I'm not sure how a 25lb draw would be said in English terms...) When knocking an arrow on EITHER type of bow, assuming the bow will be near-vertical when shot, do not knock the arrow on the palm-side of the bowgrip. Many many beginners do this. The bow (unless designed otherwise) should be slightly angled, the arrow positioned behind the string on the knuckle-side of the hand holding the bow-grip. At a slight angle, the knuckle will serve as a supportive brace. Point, shoot. Practice. We can go into detail if you want, but these are the basics.

5. Staff. A bo-staff and a quarterstaff are just about the same thing. Some are tipped in iron, but almost all are made of hardwoods. A staff is extremely useful in that it can serve as a walking support, defensive weapon, and basic tool. A staff, for you, must be of appropriate length and weight. Start with one that reaches to just above your bicep, weight appropriate to your musculature. Defensively, it can be used to block, arrest an attacker from a distance, or as a club if swung with sufficient force. My experience with staffs so-so, but it serves the same purpose as an M16 that is out of ammo. (Fix bayonets... you have no idea how hard a fixed bayonet is to use as a weapon against an intelligent opponent.) A staff can also double as a fishing-pole, lantern stand, crude ladder, source of leverage, 1/2 of a litter, support beam, or... if it gets cold... flint+tender+your staff... a good twenty to thirty minutes of life-saving warmth.

There is a saying... anything in the hands of a Marine is a weapon. Even as a Marine, I never truly appreciated this until another Marine used a payphone on me. I wish that were a joke. As a weapon, for the creative mind, anything can be used. A spoon, a tire, an empty cigarette box. There are MANY alternatives to firearms. Some just as lethal, others twice as useful.

Questions?

Good post.
I am wondering however if an air rifle would be adequate for hunting small game and as a deterrent for 2 or 4 legged predators. Since I can't purchase a gun right now. would it be worth it, until I could or would it just be a waste of money.

An air rifle should work fine for deterring raptors (I assume that's the 2 legged predator ) Make sure you do your research. If it's CO2, check out the reviews. If it's a pump rifle, try to find out who manufactured the compression chamber/cannister (This is where you really need the quality). Either should be able to bring down small game, but if these raptors really want at you, a pellet in the thigh might not be enough to deter them. Better than nothing, though!

great post. I was just thinking about getting myself a good knife this weekend.

I'm starting to prepare myself for the upcoming winter. Hopefully things don't get out of hand.

reply to post by Arrowmancer


Personally the best alternative to firearms i have found is Martial Arts, if a person has a gun and some distance there is nothing you can do, but try to get away.. if they are close like pointing a gun at your head, that is fairly easy to disarm them and take their gun before they know what happened. Plus anything can be used as a weapon as long as you know the basics for defense

I currently take classes in kenpo, mma/shootfighting, modern arnis and muay thai kick boxing. .. Who needs a weapon when you have your own hands and feet.

There are lots of videos on youtube to get a basic understanding of many different typs of martial arts

i am at work right now so i cannot post specific videos as access to youtube is unavailable, although i do have access to google video, so here is a link to an example of kenpo

www.dailymotion.com...

[edit on 9-9-2009 by LostOnEarth2012]

reply to post by Arrowmancer


For a good knife, I reccomend the SOG Seal Pup or just the SOG SEAL if you like a bigger knife.

I got a SOG seal pup a couple months ago, and while the sheath leaves much to be desired, it's the nicest knife that I've ever held.

The kabar is nice, I also own one of these.. However I find its very big and bulky. Good for generating a lot of force, and gutting someone however much harder to control. In a wilderness survival situation this would probably be my choice over my sog seal pup.

Russian special forces have a knife with a small charge in it, ... that they can detonate to turn the knife into a projectile, ... so bad ass.

Originally posted by Arrowmancer.

Personal Protection: Why? A knife is dangerous no matter who is holding it and no matter which way it's pointed. You can't control a knife blade as you can a gun barrel. A knife has no recoil. A knife makes no sound to track. A knife doesn't run out of ammunition.

I like these knives for combat. For fighting they are better then a K-bar
Applegate-Fairbairn Fighting Knife.
Gerber Mark II
A good fighting knife has to have a good Quillion. This protects your hand from sliding up the grip onto the blade if you hit bone.
In a knife fight your hand will get wet with sweat or blood and you need a knife with a good Quillion.
A leather wrap helps.
A dubble edged blade is the best as you can swing it ether way and cut.
In the single edge knives, a knife of the Tanto type with a good Quillion and a smooth spline are good.
Stay away from knives with saw blade splines these can catch on fabric and tissue/bone and make them hard to withdraw.


1. Throwing knives. Take a piece of 1/4 by 1 inch bar stock about 6 to 7 inches long. Find the center and cut a 60 degree point on one end and sharpen.
Round the other end and drill a half to 3/4 inch hole.
then take 3 foot of webbing or heavy ribbon and dubble it through the hole to make two streamer these can be rapped around the bar till thrown.

When thrown these streamer will stabilize the blade

2. Shuriken- Interesting trick, if you take the metal data disk from a hard drive and sharpen the edge these make good Shurikens.

3. Axes. to big, now a Tactical Tomahawk that is something else. there you might have a good weapon against someone with a knife.i don't know how it would throw.
www.gggaz.com...
www.armorysupply.com...

4. Bow-and-arrow. I would tend to like a crossbow better.
Smaller and easier to build and there are plans on the internet.
When i was a teen i built one from a auto leaf spring. took many hours sawing the taper on each end of the spring with a hacksaw till i could get it right but it had power.

5. Staff. I like a two piece staff about 6 foot long.
This can be taken apart for storage and use as two 3 foot long Kali sticks.
When i was in the navy in the Philippines i learned some of there martial arts. One was Kali stick fighting and staff fighting.
www.youtube.com...
This is the weapon i carry in the US because all the cops see is a old man with a walking stick.

There is a saying... anything in the hands of a Marine is a weapon.

As a navy shore patrolman I had to take on a few drunk marines and the kali stick fighting techniques using a riot control stick worked better then fists against drunk marines.
Being on shore patrol duty in Olongapo was no fun.
but I learned a lot of stick fighting techniques from the Olongapo PD officers I was teamed with when they found I was interested.