'Swamp Gas' on Mars? - The Green Fog

Originally posted by weedwhacker
And, thanks for better technical terms for the CRT/LCD monitor issue, when it reaches the different people's computers.

It doesn't matter what your monitor is like... because if you view the Rover taken at NASA's Mars Yard or you see it on Mars.. you are seeing both versions on the same monitor....

It makes no difference what it looks like on mine and it doesn't change the fact that they should look the same

Not sure why you guys are desperate to not see such a simple thing

Originally posted by zorgon
Of course we can...

1) Take a picture of the Rover thingy taken on Earth...

2) Then take one taken on Mars...

3) Open your favorite image program...

4) Place them beside each other...

5) adjust the color slider till the one on Mars matches the one on Earth...

Piece of cake... any kid can do it

OK, lets see if you can do it.

1) Take this picture of the gnomon thingy on Earth.


2) Then take this one taken on Mars...


3) Open your favorite image program...

4) Place them beside each other...

5) adjust the color slider till the one on Mars matches the one on Earth...

Any kid can do it...

Edit: I was not the one talking about colour blindness or different eyes working in different ways, so stop mixing the people that do not share your opinion, we may look all the same but we are not.

[edit on 10/9/2009 by ArMaP]

Hi all. I haven't been around for ages but thought I'd drop in, and what do I see? Zorgon and Armap going at it as usual. I smiled.

Anyway, first let me say that Armap's explanation of the reason for the green fog is spot on. I spent years working with digital imaging after years spent working in photography and could have put it no better.

As for the colour balance of the NASA martian images and correcting the colour to replicate the balance in an earth-based image, you are all on a hiding to nothing. The reason that colours appear as they do on earth is because of the atmosphere and which elements it filters out of the sunlight's spectrum. St. Ives in Cornwall, SW England, has been a mecca for artists for centuries due to it's exceptionally clear skies and the effect this has on the colour and quality of the light there. Take a shot of a white card on a beach in cornwall, and another on the same settings of a white card in the centre of London and the colour will be different.

The only way to 100% accurately reproduce the colour of Martian light in a photograph would be to exactly compensate for the chemical composition of the Martian atmosphere, eliminating it's effect on the colour of the sunlight, and then correct the image further to emulate the effect of the Earth's atmosphere. If this isn't done then NASA are doing the same as you guys, and correcting the colour according to personal preference. No harm, no foul.

reply to post by Karilla


Well said, Karilla.

Sorry for disturbing the slumber giant named zorgon, by poking a color stick at him Was my way of describing things as I "saw" them.

What Karilla pointed out reminded me of a scene near the end of the move "The Abyss"

When the hero was trying to disable the bomb, and deep underwater the red wire and black wire looked the same? (Or, was it green and black?)

Whatever, the point is made. The Sunlight remains the same, it's the medium it shines through that can affect what you perceive.

Originally posted by Karilla
Hi all. I haven't been around for ages but thought I'd drop in, and what do I see? Zorgon and Armap going at it as usual. I smiled.

We were only expecting you, we have been well behaved most of the time.

The only way to 100% accurately reproduce the colour of Martian light in a photograph would be to exactly compensate for the chemical composition of the Martian atmosphere, eliminating it's effect on the colour of the sunlight, and then correct the image further to emulate the effect of the Earth's atmosphere. If this isn't done then NASA are doing the same as you guys, and correcting the colour according to personal preference. No harm, no foul.

That's why they have the radiometrically corrected images, in which the data from the camera was used to compensate for several things like the fact that having the camera taking three photos with automatic settings for red, green and blue is not the same thing as taking a colour photo with automatic settings and other things like that.

Those photos are the ones that appear more reddish, and I think that's because of the dust in the air, a little dust can change a lot the colour of the light.

But nothing like being there to see what it looks like, too bad my chances of ever being able to do it are so small (I am an optimist ).

Originally posted by ArMaP]That's why they have the radiometrically corrected images, in which the data from the camera was used to compensate for several things like the fact that having the camera taking three photos with automatic settings for red, green and blue is not the same thing as taking a colour photo with automatic settings and other things like that.

Those photos are the ones that appear more reddish, and I think that's because of the dust in the air, a little dust can change a lot the colour of the light.

But nothing like being there to see what it looks like, too bad my chances of ever being able to do it are so small (I am an optimist

).

I didn't know about radiometric correction. I never needed to compensate for the methane released during studio photo shoots.

The first digital camera I ever used was a Leaf 10x8 job that we used for product shots. You couldn't do people because it used seperate red, green and blue frames. Even now though, just for correcting my own landscape images, I quite often edit the channels individually. Colour theory has caused many people many migraines over the years. A friend of mine actually did a PhD in it, I couldn't even attempt to get through his dissertation. He'd be a much more valuable contributor to this discussion....

Edit: Here's a good pdf on radiometric correction in satellite imaging: www.ncl.ac.uk...

[edit on 10-9-2009 by Karilla]

Originally posted by weedwhacker The Sunlight remains the same, it's the medium it shines through that can affect what you perceive.

Ah yes the same sunlight

Welcome to the real Mars

Originally posted by ArMaP

OK, lets see if you can do it.

1) Take this picture of the gnomon thingy on Earth.

2) Then take this one taken on Mars...

3) Open your favorite image program...

4) Place them beside each other...

5) adjust the color slider till the one on Mars matches the one on Earth...

Any kid can do it...

Well I get the feeling that'll be the end of that!

Nice thread regardless.

Originally posted by John Nada

Well I get the feeling that'll be the end of that!

The end of what?

A few chronic debunkers being disingenuous on a thread does not change the fact that the cloud is actually green - even if one believes those debunkers.

reply to post by Exuberant1

Just to make things clear, are you including me in the "chronic debunkers" groups?

Be it if the Methane is or is not the green color in the image changes NOTHING in that there is Methane on Mars as Fact.

We also know that there is water under the surface of Mars large amounts of it.

We know that Mars is still although far less somewhat active geologically Martian Volcanic activity

So there is heat under the surface which of course along with pressure and shielding from the lack of atmosphere can create liquid water under the surface

The martian crust is between 33 and 81 Km in thickness, very substantial Crist thickness

Being less geologically active with ice and certainly water at the right pressures flowing into the crust you are bound to have some very large caverns

While life on the surface might be limited to extremophile bacteria and other highly adaptive maybe almost unrecognizable forms if it can survive at all

It is very likely there are pockets of Gas and water under the ice, under the surface where life would have a far easier time surviving.

There is absolutely no reason to assume the Methane is not from organic sources lying maybe as close under the surface as feet in places.

There are a variety of layers under the surface where from sub soil right above or within the ice where simple forms can exist to pockets of gas and liquid water beneath the ice where the conditions would be perfect for organisms could survive.

The simple fact is that we have found life as deep as 2 miles down on Earth and in Environments far more extreme than what we know lies under the surface of Mars which would be, sustainable constant temperatures at the proper depth to mimic life on Earth with Water, space and maybe even pockets of Oxygen which remain unexposed to the surface.

Absolutely and simply NO REASON to assume this Methane is not Organic in Origin.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I also think that it's much more probable that there are life forms under ground on Mars than on the surface, one thing I noticed some time ago was that there is a great difference in atmospheric pressure between the higher and the lower places at the surface, so even in connection to the surface it's possible to have a denser atmosphere, without the harsher environment of the surface and with more stable temperatures.

But they are only possibilities for now, although I hope to see a more extensive study of Mars during my lifetime.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus

Absolutely and simply NO REASON to assume this Methane is not Organic in Origin.

Yup.

Especially when you consider that 90 percent of the Earth's atmospheric methane is produced by biological processes.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Some people think that part may be produced by chemical reactions on the surface, triggered by the stronger radiation, but from what I have read about it even those people think that the amount produced cannot be explained just by this possible method.

Normally I like your posts, Zorgon, (and exuberant1) but I have to side with ArMaP on this one.

It appears green because it didn't come into frame until the green channel was taken. Remember the frames are minutes apart. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to swallow.

But again, this is from a non-biased 3rd party. Armap has shown, to me, a completely plausible situation, even on the first page. Even you have to agree, if a mobile dust storm was sweeping across the frame, captured on the green channel, when they're taken minutes apart, it would show as green.

Now if they took it all at once, I would have to side with you, but that isn't the scenario here.

Originally posted by Ecidemon
It appears green because it didn't come into frame until the green channel was taken. Remember the frames are minutes apart. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to swallow.

Okay its green looking dust devils then... I do like how shadowhawk found a reason for the dust to be green and weed whacker applauded his reasoning

Olivine dust

Olivine is certainly green...



And according to NASA the area the rover is in is rich in Olivine dust from the olivine rich basalt and bluish Hematite nodules all over the place

Data from the Thermal Emission Spectrometer instrument on NASA's Mars Global Surveyor showed exposures of olivine-rich rocks, which were mapped in more detail by the Thermal Emission Imaging System on Mars Odyssey. Here colors ranging from magenta to purple-blue trace large exposures of olivine-rich rocks in the Nili Fossae region of Syrtis Major. The images from the Thermal Emission Imaging System show that the olivine is about four times as extensive as scientists previously thought. This image is about 350 kilometers (220 miles) wide. (Image credit: NASA/JPL/ASU)

www.nasa.gov...

The iron mineral hematite lies on the surface of parts of the Meridiani Planum region of Mars. Mapped from orbit by the Thermal Emission Spectrometer instrument on NASA's Mars Global Surveyor, hematite abundances range from 5 percent (blue) to 20 percent (red). Hematite often forms in the presence of liquid water. The hematite discovery by this instrument led to the selection of Meridiani Planum as the landing area for NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity. Opportunity landed within the black oval indicated on this image. The background image is a daytime infrared mosaic from the Thermal Emission Imaging System instrument on NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter.
Image credit: NASA/JPL/ASU

www.nasa.gov...

The black oval was the original target zone for Opportunity based on this image of minerals. The Rovers are actually micro mining machines

Well aside from the Martian Geology Lesson... I will concede this round to ArMap

Its just green colored dust because they use green tinted glasses


But I am still waiting for him to explain his blue haze in the same green colored frame





[edit on 11-9-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
But I am still waiting for him to explain his blue haze in the same green colored frame

What do you mean by that?

I might aswell go ahead and 'Donate' my Canon S5 IS to Nasa when I can find a couple of "coins" to upgrade.

Current *Point and shoot* cameras can take wonderful images. They have 20x optical Zoom, Macro Mode, 1080p video and a boatload of other features like quick burst shots which make them ideal for Nasa Campaigns. High end 'point and Shoot' cameras also have pretty good stereo microphones which would help Nasa... as Mars must have SOUND

You can take point and shoot Cameras on hiking trips in bags and then throw your bag around in extreme conditions and they keep on working without fault... the little champs they are

reply to post by Somamech

What is needed is for the cameras to work consistently and predictably under extreme conditions, including very low temperatures and higher radiation levels, with very low energy consumption and weight.

But I wouldn't mind having a digital camera like HiRISE, a 0.5 metres reflector telescope with a colour resolution of 4000x126,000 or a greyscale resolution of 20,000x126,000 pixels.

reply to post by ArMaP


On Earth My canon S5 IS has worked without fault in extremity's

From the low lands of Australia in extreme heat with only Four AA batteries which will hold their charge to 80% for 12 months un-used to the other extremes of being 3300 meters above sea level in the misty tea growing regions of Taiwan.

On topic though... Awesome pics of the Green Gas