Whats with the Increase Threads Made Mostly By New Members To Push For Obama's Healthcare Reform?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

This is the truth and you claim you don't care, and that others shouldn't care. You even went so far as insinuate that i must also be paid off then without any proof, and as if that was making some point that only you can understand.

Yikes, is the fog so thick that you cannot see a mirror through it?

You started a thread accusing members of posting for payment or for propaganda without any evidence to support it, yet when one shines the same unfounded hypothetical mirror at you to show you what you are doing you protest that they don't have evidence to support it.

For the last time, it doesn't matter who is posting and why, the only thing that matters is what they post. If it is partisan nonsense form any interest group, be it political, gov. disinfo, creationist dogma, chemtrails R us, 9/11 or bust ... it is simply irrelevant. If you disagree with something then speak up, or don't, it's all the same to me, but we speak to posts here, we do not witch hunt the posters.

So yes there are pro-Obama groups pimping here, as there are pro RP, pro Corsis, pro-[insert interest group]. To assume anything other would be naive.

Again, so what? Let them come, and when they do with dishonesty or malice we will do what we always do, strip them apart of any credibility, but not because of who they are or where they come from but because of what they say.

Or are we to stifle free speech Cuba style to protect ourselves from their evil words?

And that is what bothers me most about your OP. Not only your thinly veiled attempt to group all those who earnestly believe in this healthcare plan with those who are paid to do so, but MOSTLY the underlying presumption that ATS members are too stupid or gullible to sift through such easily identifiable attempts to pimp ideology.

Thanks for the breaking news EU, that organizations use internet forums to spread their viewpoint, and huggles for looking out for us, but really ... I think we got this one covered.

[edit on 7 Sep 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by mental modulator


For crying outloud, I made it CLEAR that there are problems with the healthcare, but the Obama healthcare reform is not the awnser...

I am not going to go looking throughout the forums to post the threads and esponses "just for you" , but already there have been members responding to this thread who have seen the same trend.

BTW, are you now also denying that Obama has made deals with Big Pharma?...

[edit on 7-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Yikes, is the fog so thick that you cannot see a mirror through it?

You started a thread accusing members of posting for payment or for propaganda without any evidence to support it, yet when one shines the same unfounded hypothetical mirror at you to show you what you are doing you protest that they don't have evidence to support it.

Wow, nice twisting of the truth. I made it very clear that I am not saying all members who are pro Obama healthcare are being paid.

Learn how to read, and comprehend what you are reading because you obviously can't comprehend what you read, or you are intentionally twisting the truth for your own motives.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
And that is what bothers me most about your OP. Not only your thinly veiled attempt to group all those who earnestly believe in this healthcare plan with those who are paid to do so, but MOSTLY the underlying presumption that ATS members are too stupid or gullible to sift through such easily identifiable attempts to pimp ideology.

BS, several times I mentioned that I do see every member who posts pro-Obama to be paid off employees. Again, i see you continuously trying to derail the thread, and post nothing more than lies.

It is obvious, in your "thinly veiled attemp" to derail, and put doubt on this infomation that you don't have a real argument against puting forth this sort of information.

BTW, I never said that "free speech" should be stiffled.... That is unless it is trying to spread hatred, and violence, and i am not spreading neither one. I am postnig FACTS. If you are bothered by facts, well, see ya later.

But again, I posted facts, and backed them with evidence, which for some reason you didn't like.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Thanks for the breaking news EU, that organizations use internet forums to spread their viewpoint, and huggles for looking out for us, but really ... I think we got this one covered.

Wow, so i guess we better not post any topics at all, since most of us have heard about most of them one time or another....

Good job schrodingers dog... let's applaud you for pointing this to us...

So let's all just stop posting threads about subjects we, or any other member knows about because of "schrodingers dog".....

That was a bad attempt to claim that i am trying to stiffle "free speech" when you are the one doing so....


[edit on 7-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Your thread title:

"Whats with the Increase Threads Made Mostly By New Members To Push For Obama's Healthcare Reform?"

Hey, if you're going to accuse people don't be cryptic about it, tell us who you're talking about.

Good luck with your persecutions and witch hunts.

In the meantime I await your next thread where you expose MSNBC for being in Obama's pocket, and all other such ground breaking exposes.

[edit on 7 Sep 2009 by schrodingers dog]

A while back, I posted this thread about the gov't push to enter and influence forums and sites:

"Gov't Admits Spying on Blogs and Forums"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You could've seen this coming from a mile away.


jw

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by mental modulator

 

For crying outloud, I made it CLEAR that there are problems with the healthcare, but the Obama healthcare reform is not the awnser...

I am not going to go looking throughout the forums to post the threads and esponses "just for you" , but already there have been members responding to this thread who have seen the same trend.

BTW, are you now also denying that Obama has made deals with Big Pharma?...

[edit on 7-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

First off are you saying that the bill is penned by Obama???

You should have included some examples in your OP

And third Obama is an A hole for settling for an 80 billion dollar price reduction guarantee, he should have stuck to his promise of opening up the borders for cross market Pharm. His insurance TV campaign is crap anyways, you guys have shot it to hell, but I do not like that this failure will represent the end of debate for another decade. SAME ol CHIT

So do you think you can point me in the vaguely direction of these threads please?

I would like to weigh in and be informed when I do

Originally posted by jdub297
A while back, I posted this thread about the gov't push to enter and influence forums and sites:

"Gov't Admits Spying on Blogs and Forums"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You could've seen this coming from a mile away.


jw

Ya Jamie83 worked for the RNC

I suspect a few others

Originally posted by mikerussellus

*god* does that mean Michael Steele will pay me 15 bucks an hour?

Maybe not Michael Steele personally, but someone in the GOP or other right wing organization will pay you to rabble-rouse against health insurance reform. Heck, you can get paid to go to town hall meetings with travel expenses included.

Do you think all those anti-Obama ads on television are public service announcements?
They're bought and paid for too.

Of course health care supporters are organizing, and of course those who devote full time to it are often compensated.

The same goes for the anti-Obama forces.

Why do some people on ATS think Obama is personally involved in everything his supporters do?

Is Michael Steele or John McCain or Rush Limbaugh behind all your posts on ATS? There have been a suspiciously high number of conservative posts on here and something stinks. . .

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Frustrating isn't it EU? You try to ask a logical question. "if OB's health care plan is so great, why does the obomonoids have to pay someone $15 an hour to push it down everyone's throat? Notice how their arguments are all pretty much the same. That's because their marching orders come from the same. They log onto their, "my obama" website, get their daily dose of indoctrination (they think it's truth) come to websites like this one and push OB's Ideas. I say OB's ideas, because that's exactly what it is, OB's agenda, not theirs. All they really have to know is that OB wills it and they are good to go. No analytical thought, no questions, no reasoning, just do it.

And don't think for a minute this is the only website they have infiltrated. I frequent labor websites and find the same thing, They are not there to reason or debate an issue. They are there because they are told to. They could care less if the American people like it or not. Their "my Obama" website says it's good for the people, so for them it's a done deal

Originally posted by mental modulator

First off are you saying that the bill is penned by Obama???

Wow, I guess not heh? I guess he hasn't pushed, and pushed, and pushed to pass this healthcare reform hard enough, so he is probably not behind this healthcare reform eh?... Is that what you are trying to say?.....

Originally posted by mental modulator
So do you think you can point me in the vaguely direction of these threads please?

Some have been here, and in other parts of the forums...but really if you would have been paying attention you would have seen what other members said in their responses in this thread.

Originally posted by mental modulator
I would like to weigh in and be informed when I do

Really? by the way you ahve reacted to this news I would think you didn't want to be informed at all.

Originally posted by mental modulator

Ya Jamie83 worked for the RNC

I suspect a few others

I have no idea who this "Jame83" is, as for your "suspition" do you actually ahve ANY evidence for such suspicions?

Christ, the drama some people create when news they don't like is presented to them....

reply to post by useless eaters



Very, and it is more frustrating to find some members trying to put down information such as this with nothing but vitriol.

But it kind of proves there is truth to the information doesn't it? Some members even act as if they were angry that they were found out.

For $15 an hour, I'd try to push it- it doesn't mean anyone has to *listen* to me, or even that I know what the heck I am talking about!

Altho... it works both ways- someone who signs on and starts doing this could end up with some GREAT insider info.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Here's an idea: Why don't you try not characterizing your political opponents as brainwashed? You people spend half the time complaining that no one gives you an honest debate and the now you spend the other half of the time complaining that too many people wish to challenge your misconceptions. This latter claim seeks to classify them as paid disinformation agents so that you don't actually need to argue with them - you merely attack the credibility of the speaker without actually addressing what they are saying.

Your thread title makes a solid implication that someone who starts a thread that is in favor of health care reform must be both a new member and a member that is somehow connected to directly to Obama - a shill. First, you're operating off several assumptions: 1. that this website receives enough traffic to justify FAKE debaters; 2. The readers of ATS are too incompetent to distinguish between fact-based arguments and shill propaganda; 3. Convincing the few dozen people who read any particular thread would somehow have a broader effect on their community, justifying some complex conspiracy to deceive them.

A better question is how this site has somehow become a right-wing paradise? How many threads asserting that Obama is an illegal immigrant because he was not born in the US and underwent no naturalization process? How many race-based Obama threads that were deleted by admins? How many Death Panel threads that have no basis in reality while simultaneously ignoring the fact that insurance companies do in fact have death panels responsible for rejecting claims for necessary treatment due to cost?

I think a better question to ask is why so many threads are so consistently identical to Fox News talking points? Am I asserting a conspiracy involving the Fox News channel? No. I am asserting a particularly low level of critical thinking skills on the part of Fox News viewers who are so easily convinced to be terrified. No one questions the fact that 100% of the news coming from that channel is negative toward democrats and every written article of a political nature is written like an editorial rather than a mere reporting of the facts of an issue, with a title containing a rhetorical question or asking a controversial question that the article subtlely admits is completely false.

Open a history book and go towards the section on Joseph McCarthy. He got his kicks accusing everyone of being a communist - he had the whole country reporting on their neighbors. People were fired from their jobs for refusing out of principle to sign loyalty oaths or because they were friends with someone who attended a communist club meeting in college. It was a disgusting chapter in our history and you fools have permitted yourselves to do the SAME THING all over again because you're angry that you lost an election.

When you vote in fair election and your candidate loses to another candidate, this does NOT mean you are unrepresented in Congress. Stating otherwise, challenging the integrity of the whole election process, simply because you lost the election is reckless. You people so casually throw around the word fascism and yet now you advocate overthrowing the government because your candidate didn't win, because someone who is not more similar to yourself is in power. How could overthrowing a government under these circumstances be called anything except fascism?

So, I reiterate: if you don't like the subject of a thread, don't read it or respond intelligently to the points you disagree with. Avoid simply attacking the speaker as a shill or government agent. Why? Because challenging the integrity of the system or the person is much easier than winning fairly within the confines of that system. Personal attacks are easy but they accomplish nothing. All you've done is show how weak your argument must be because you cannot argue the facts.


[edit on 8-9-2009 by andrewh7]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by mental modulator

Ya Jamie83 worked for the RNC

I suspect a few others

I have no idea who this "Jame83" is, as for your "suspition" do you actually ahve ANY evidence for such suspicions?

Christ, the drama some people create when news they don't like is presented to them....

No I do not "ahve" any proof, do you "ahve" any kidcehad ? All I know is Jamie83 would start 4 -5 threads a day, be on seemingly 24 hours a day, amongst other things dealing with style and memory.


[edit on 8-9-2009 by mental modulator]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by mental modulator

First off are you saying that the bill is penned by Obama???

Wow, I guess not heh? I guess he hasn't pushed, and pushed, and pushed to pass this healthcare reform hard enough, so he is probably not behind this healthcare reform eh?... Is that what you are trying to say?.....

Originally posted by mental modulator
So do you think you can point me in the vaguely direction of these threads please?

Some have been here, and in other parts of the forums...but really if you would have been paying attention you would have seen what other members said in their responses in this thread.

Originally posted by mental modulator
I would like to weigh in and be informed when I do

Really? by the way you ahve reacted to this news I would think you didn't want to be informed at all.

The idea was to let the legislative branch iron out the detail so that bi partisanship could be practiced, the opposite attempt of Clinton. You called it the Obama bill, disingenuous much?

You OP'd the thread you should at least "ahve" the proof of such, as is relate to ATS available to discuss.

White House says Obama will answer 'big questions'

WASHINGTON — A White House spokesman says President Barack Obama will answer "many of the big questions" about how the nation should move forward on health care in his speech to Congress Wednesday night.

But White House press secretary Robert Gibbs declined to provide any details.

Obama will address Congress and the nation as he tries to build momentum for a legislative deal this fall.

One key point of debate is whether Obama will insist or give ground on the so-called public option, a government plan to compete with private companies.

Gibbs declined to answer whether Obama will be definitive on that point.

He said Obama will be clear about what health reform means for people and provide new, specific details.

Maybe you need to just give Obama a chance before slandering him and those who may also wish to give him a chance.

All this money that will be "wasted" saving people's lives.... and I thought American's would be more upset at money thrown wastefully into nation building in Afghanistan. The US army, the British army, in fact all of NATO weren't designed for nation building.... why be angry at spending money helping people, when you're paying taxes that line the pockets of corrupt Afghan officials and also civilian deaths whilst fighting the taliban???

[edit on 8-9-2009 by john124]

Interesting information about the craigslist ad. I think that job is probably for people to go out in the real world, door-to-door, handing out flyers and whatnot, but I could be wrong.

Maybe I should check the website I use to find freelance writing jobs, to see if there are any jobs posted relating to forum activity for political causes. It probably does happen. Any person, organization, or website with the funds can get people to do such things.

One of my first "freelance writing" projects was posting on various credit/finance message boards to promote a man's website about how to use credit cards to get cash to deposit in a high-yield savings account. Those message boards literally sickened me though, and I didn't do it for more than a couple weeks.

I was also hired by a guy to post on his travel forum using numerous accounts to make his forum look active so real people would get involved. People often pay writers to do that sort of thing. We need jobs.

I'm just saying, yes, it happens. There could be people getting paid for posting on ATS for whatever reason.

Personally, I don't think it's something we need to worry about. Here, we "deny ignorance", we're supposed to be a free-thinking community. If people come to ATS and they're not prepared to think for themselves and question things, they can be a victim of the 'propaganda' here the same as 'MSM propaganda'. We can only hope they learn to be more discerning.

There are those who might post for payment, and there are those who might post the same thing out of personal concern, curiosity, or whatever. Pointing fingers at them for being 'shills' won't do any good, someone else will just point back at you and accuse you of the same.

I write for a website that many people would call 'disinfo', but I believe what I write. So even if someone gets paid for posting somewhere, it doesn't mean they are necessarily lying.

And no, I don't get paid for posting here, I wish I did, I'd make more money. Instead, I am here wasting my time when I should be working.

(I don't mean any offense. Just saying it's possible and there's nothing we can do about it, but exercise free and rational thinking to minimize the effects of possible 'shills'.)

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

BS, several times I mentioned that I do see every member who posts pro-Obama to be paid off employees. Again, i see you continuously trying to derail the thread, and post nothing more than lies.

The above statements is supposed to be "I don't see every member who is pro-Obama as being paid off employees posting in this website".

Was very late, and yes I made a mistake in my writting.

[edit on 8-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by john124
Maybe you need to just give Obama a chance before slandering him and those who may also wish to give him a chance.

All this money that will be "wasted" saving people's lives.... and I thought American's would be more upset at money thrown wastefully into nation building in Afghanistan. The US army, the British army, in fact all of NATO weren't designed for nation building.... why be angry at spending money helping people, when you're paying taxes that line the pockets of corrupt Afghan officials and also civilian deaths whilst fighting the taliban???

Money wasted saving lives?.... Did you ever take a look at what even LEFTIST websites have been posting about THE TRUTH of the healthcare reform?... I don't think you have.


BTW, as i posted on another thread, here are some of the things done by the Obama administration with the blessings of President Obama.

Apart from the DHS, under Janet Napolitano, labeling most Americans as "possible terrorists" just for wanting to uphold and defend the Constitution, the following are some of the other things done by the Obama administration, and President Obama himself.

Let's see... What recent presidents EVER called for a Civilian National Security Force, with more Americorps, and Obama youths that have ages starting from secondary and even primary school?

What president wanted to have these Civilian National Security and children to train in anti-terrorist drills?

What president passed a law, as H.R. 1388 which states the Corporation has the power over all learn based/educational programs, as well as Community Service programs. This includes ALL children, whether they are stay at home kids, whether they go to privae schools, or a school in a reservation.

not to mention...

H.R.1388
GIVE Act (Introduced in House)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SEC. 6104. DUTIES.
.....................

(6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.

(7) The need for a public service academy, a 4-year institution that offers a federally funded undergraduate education with a focus on training future public sector leaders.

(8) The means to develop awareness of national service and volunteer opportunities at a young age by creating, expanding, and promoting service options for elementary and secondary school students, through service learning or other means, and by raising awareness of existing incentives.

(9) The effectiveness of establishing a training program on college campuses to recruit and educate college students for national service.

Unfortunately this link doesn't last long, but you can check the information yourself.

link

Oh, and let's not forget the Corporation has the right to have a centralized electronic citizenship verification system...

Study of Centralized Electronic Citizenship Verification System: H.R. 1388 authorizes the Corporation to conduct a new study on establishing an electronic citizenship verification system and then implement a pilot based on the recommendations from the study. The bill authorizes such sums for this study from FY 2010 through 2014.

Link

Scroll down almost to the middle.

You think all of the above is "for the good of the people"?

The Obama healthcare reform is about giving more power to BIG PHARMA. Instead of allowing people, even elder Americans having treatments, or operations that could save them, and keep them from taking more pills, instead the government, and president Obama himself claim "it might be better if you take the pill, instead of having the treatment, or operation because the treatments or operations are not economically viable.

Obamacare: Just take a Pill