Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

Pathos, you seem like someone out of 2004.

It's 2009, get with the program. Most people now realise, through sheer weight of evidence, that 911 was an inside job. Calling it a government conspiracy might be a bit over the top, but people, very high up, in government were almost certainly envolved. Someone had to tell NORAD to stand down you know...

We are beyond 911 truth. We are at ponerology now, I suggest you read up on it to get a clue not only of what is going on but also about the real dynamics of human society.

I hope you wake up, even if a little late.

Peace.

Originally posted by jonny2410

Originally posted by OldDragger
Oh boy! You did it now!
You challenged THE BELIVERS!
Notice how often that word comes up in those threads?
Your gonna be told of THE TRUTH told to WAKE UP, that you just are too freaked out by the thought of THE GOVERNMENT doing such a thing.
These folks are as dogmatic as theycome, they hold to their beliefs as does the fundamentalist, they pore endlessly over THE EVIDENCE and must spend days on YouTube doing REASEARCH.
As with all dogmatists, it's really useless to attempt to reason with this crowd. They know stuff you don't, they have evolved beyond the rest of us simpletons, they BELIEVE!!!!!

This is the best post of the damn thread, even the damn fricking day.

After all it for people to accept the fact that a few odd terrorists carried out the attacks would be far to boring, no like all the "truthists", lets call it an inside job...

Uh Thank you, Thank you very much!

what's grotesque is that there will always be
gullible brainwashed people that believe
corrupted governments' lies and
machinations





[edit on 4-9-2009 by donhuangenaro]

...and at this point - I'm out (probably).

Pathos - the Bush statement was in response to a question he was asked about 9/11.

I can see this getting heated and whilst I respect opinions from both sides, I've no wish for this to descend into name-calling, I'd suggest all of us involved take 5/10/15, chill out and take a look at things the opposing side has brought to the table.

Just take a little look at the picture below, chuckle to yourself - Take in and respect others viewpoints, this'll still be here tomorrow.

Originally posted by donhuangenaro
what's grotesque is that there will always be
gullible brainwashed people that believe
corrupted governments'
machinations

I put my faith in my fellow countrymen, logic, and facts. You guys put faith in Wikipedia, YouTube hobbyists, and untested facts.

Its over. You guys have no credibility.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by PathosI put my faith in my fellow countrymen, logic, and facts. You guys put faith in Wikipedia, YouTube hobbyists, and untested facts.

Its over. You guys have no credibility.

Do these people have any credibility? www.patriotsquestion911.com...

Why should I believe you rather than them? What are your credentials?

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by PathosI put my faith in my fellow countrymen, logic, and facts. You guys put faith in Wikipedia, YouTube hobbyists, and untested facts.

Its over. You guys have no credibility.

Do these people have any credibility? www.patriotsquestion911.com...

Why should I believe you rather than them? What are your credentials?

I am going to read this stuff over. After I go through the the pdfs, I will tell you what I conclude. There is a lot to take in. Until I see something that screams conspiracy, I will stand by my original statement. Give me time to go through these pdfs.

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Pathos

 

"Our government" orchestrated pearl harbor. Research it and see for yourself.

Then if you can't admit that don't bother with 911 ever again, you'll just be unable to reach an unbiased conclusion.

Our government provoked Pearl Harbor, but they did not orchestrate the event. As a result of poking around, we were caught off guard by a sneak attack.

If my history is correct most of the US naval fleet based at pearl harbour were sent out running errands just days before the attack, that's either extremely lucky or you lot saw it coming and moved the "valuables".

You even picked up the incoming force on radar and dismissed it if I remember correctly.

reply to post by Pathos

I put my faith in my fellow countrymen, logic, and facts. You guys put faith in Wikipedia, YouTube hobbyists, and untested facts

incorrect again! that would be blind faith.you are talking about. the blind faith of the common tailwagger. on steroids. no stranger to this conversation are you sir?

Originally posted by Pathos
So, you are all physics experts with a Doctrine's degree? You know how architecture is affected by an airplane crash?

Obviously you don't have a "Doctrine's" degree, other wise you would know there is no such thing. Also, just so you know for future reference, architecture has very little to do with the structure of a building. Architecture is more for aesthetics. (I added hyperlink bc surely you have no clue what the word means)

-E-

[edit on 4-9-2009 by MysterE]

I stopped on the main page, and this one line told me everything on that page is bull.

www.patriotsquestion911.com...

Interviewer: OK. So on September the 11th, in 2001, what hit the Pentagon?

General Stubblebine: I don't know exactly what hit it, but I do know, from the photographs that I have analyzed and looked at very, very carefully, it was not an airplane.

Using your own reference, the evidence that support a conspiracy is junk. I saw the events with my own two eyes, and I saw planes plow into buildings.

You guys have nothing.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

Most people who believe the official story never heard about building 7.

Most people who believe the official story thinks the top portion of the towers fell onto the rest of the towers and crushed them.

If they looked at a video of the first tower collapsing, they would see that the top falls down very inclined. It then vanishes into dust.

So you can see, the tower is not crushed by the top portion, its crushed by an invisible force floor by floor.

Did the firemen hear explosions, or see flashes, which are used in a controlled demolition?

Yes they did. New York times has got the voice recordings from the firemen, after a law suit. The firemen talks about numerous explosions and flashes.

Did the official investigation search for explosives then?

No, NIST says its waste of time to search for something which is not there.

So the official report ignored all the explosion witnesses. Did they ignore anything else?

Yes, they ignored the core in the building. The core was sealed in concrete and was designed to resist fire in many ways. In the official report it was not sealed and all the steel was naked. In the first report (FEMA) it was just left out altogether.


[edit on 4-9-2009 by conar]

reply to post by MysterE

Obviously you don't have a "Doctrine's" degree, other wise you would know there is no such thing. Also, just so you know for future reference, architecture has very little to do with the structure of a building. Architecture is more for aesthetics. (I added hyperlink bc surely you have no clue what the word means

great observation skills, that continue to serve you well sir. he proply meant engineering huh?
i'm outta here this guy's redundent.



[edit on 4-9-2009 by randyvs]

Heh, and here I was thinking that this guy's post would be totally ignored. I read it and thought about answering, but then realized this was just someone baiting for an argument. You can't sway people like this, i.e. people who think that the people in control of the worlds largest and most powerful military in the history of modern man are not going to be power drunk.

In addition, anyone who comes into a 9/11 forum and tells the participants that they are all sick for thinking that the powers in charge would destroy their own citizens to further a cause, has not done *any* research on the subject and is by no means a student of history. It's like arguing over the subtle nuances of a musical piece with a deaf person.

I personally have given up even trying on the 9/11 thing. They win this round. I don't even see a point of trying to take on the most powerful people in the world on this. I simply plan on surviving when TSHTF and doing explatives to their graves.

Survival is the best revenge.

Originally posted by conar
Most people who believe the official story never heard about building 7.

Most people who believe the official story thinks the top portion of the towers fell onto the rest of the towers and crushed them.

If they looked at a video of the first tower collapsing, they would see that the top falls down very inclined. It then vanishes into dust.

So how can the top portion vanish into dust, while the whole tower collapses 1 floor at a time?

Did the firemen hear explosions, or see flashes, which are used in a controlled demolition?

Yes they did. New York times has got the voice recordings from the firemen, after a law suit. The firemen talks about numerous explosions and flashes.

Did the official investigation search for explosives then?

No, NIST says its waste of time to search for something which is not there.

So the official report ignored all the explosion witnesses. Did they ignore anything else?

Yes, they ignored the core in the building. The core was sealed in concrete and was designed to resist fire in many ways. In the official report it was not sealed and all the steel was naked. In the first report (FEMA) it was just left out altogether.

So, your telling me that nothing in a building could explode? How about gas or propane heating?

I find it grotesque how there are so many people like the OP who refuse to look at the whole picture just because they cant imagine the government hurting there own civilians. THEY DONT CARE ABOUT YOU!!!!!! if your feeling a little bit of hostility here , im sorry but I cant help it. in previous posts telling the OP about all the evidence and experts there is to back up the inside theory, I would like to know, OP , how much time have you spent researching the evidence????? why did the towers come straight down and not sideways??? because it was a controlled demolition, and if you dont understand that than you shouldnt be sayin a freekin thing about it. we can sit here and through evidence in your faces all day long and you refuse to really look at it with open eyes. I dont understand why you think the government cares about you or anybody else for that matter, they are nothing but criminals, they made it so im a terrorist just by saying they are criminals, the war on terror, the war on drugs, wheres a war on poverty???? the government is the one who brings drugs here , they pay the dealers, everybody is in a pocket, if they can kill millions a year on there pharma drugs , anti-deppresants, and such, than you really think they would care about a few thousand in new york??? if you do I really feel sorry for you, look at this generation which I am part of and see how hard it is to succeed at anything, ten dollars an hour, yeah right, college yeah right, I realized at a very early age watching my parents work , always a struggle, like nothing but ants on the ground ,and Im tired of watching it, this generation isnt gonna put up with what the boomers let happen. the media, the prisons, the banks, the government, they all work together to keep you in your little protected shell, I know I went off on a rant, but Im just trying to get across to people like the OP that the government does NOT care about you, and so than it would not be very hard to imagine that the government had a few strings to pull in all of this, even if they just pulled one string and didnt really orchestrate it all thats still just as bad because they knew about it and did nothing to stop it, all the warnings that were given to bush and he laughed like the little nim-wit he is , he should be lynched!! so should the congress!!! uh-oh there I go again being a terrorist , I know that there are still a noble few left in our government who have not lost all sense of morality to greed, so I know that not all of them are bad. and national geographic is propaganda, all tv is propaganda for that matter, but you just go ahead and keep believing everything they tell you OP, I dont care its your life, I try to get people to wake up, but I think some of them just never will, Thats whats more Grotesque (as the OP would say) than any of it, so scared to step into reality, you would rather be told what to do than make up your own minds and lead instead of follow, its a crying shame,!!!! please govt. help me!!! help me !!!

Here is a great list of logical fallacies. I'm going to take your original post and analyze it for logical fallacies.

Originally posted by Pathos
Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

What the hell. I just do not get it. After starting this tread over a hundred times, in my mind, I could not come up with a logical approach. When I first came to this website, I did notice the 9/11 conspiracy boards. Even though I knew they were there, I still managed to sign up for this site. Above Top Secret is the hub for any type of conspiracy. Elvis, JFK, UFOs, etc... You can find almost anything here. Out of all the topics that can be found here, I find the 9/11 boards to be very disturbing.

Logical Fallacy: Poisoning the Well
You start by complimenting the forums, then tell us how you almost didn't sign up because of the 9/11 forum. You are negatively portraying the 9/11 forum and by extension its users' opinions before you start providing any proof at all.

If I have to relate the comments in this section to a specific person, I would have thought they were coming from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Logical fallacy: Guilt by Association
"You think that 1+1=2. But, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Joseph Stalin, and Ted Bundy all believed that 1+1=2. So, you shouldn't believe it."

According to that creep over in Iran, he said that the Holocaust never happened. I see people in these boards saying the exact same thing, but they replaced the Holocaust with 9/11.

Logical fallacy: Straw Man
We don't believe that "9/11 never happened"... we believe that the government had some further involvement in 9/11 than is portrayed by the official story.

I am not sure if some of you get off on this debate. I do not understand how a person could blame a sitting US President for killing 2,000+ of his own citizens. I find it revolting, grotesque, and freakish.

Logical Fallacy: Ad hominem. You imply that truthers "get off" on a debate about 2000+ people dying.

I keep asking myself "What type of human being do you have to be in order to believe 9/11 is a conspiracy?" After pondering this question for a few days, I concluded that there is something seriously wrong with some of you.

Logical Fallacy: Personal Attack. "That claim cannot be true. Dave believes it, and we know how morally repulsive he is."

American Exceptionalism

I don't have any sound, but judging by the video I don't see what this has to do with 9/11. If I had to guess, I would think this is the logical fallacy of Appeal to Tradition.
"Traditionally, America has always been a great country."

Scary animation of 9/11 jet impact reveals truth

So you are trying to prove things with a computer animation? Real good proof there chief. If that's proof of anything, then I have proof of UFOs!

What you 'truthers' lack is a shred of humanity. Enjoy the above two clips. Maybe you will learn something.

Another ad hominem. You imply that truthers are sub human when you say that truthers lack "a shred of humananity."

No offense, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you probably have an agenda.

[minor link formatting edits]

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Albastion]

Originally posted by Pathos
Once Wikipedia is entered as evidence, the whole logic behind everyone's 9/11 conspiracies are lost. Now none of the believers have a credible case. You have proven my point. There is no logic to this grotesque theology that 9/11 was staged by our government.

You guys have just lost all credibility.

It does not mater what other evidence you bring to the table, you have tainted sources to support your false claims.

Its over.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

Someone linked to the Operation Northwoods page on Wikipedia, which gives a summary. This discussion is not over, because you can read the WHOLE DOCUMENT FOR YOURSELF HERE AND MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND. This document was not written by "everyone," it was written by select groups within the US government.

As if this discussion were "over" just because you say it is.

LOL

Please don't leave, I'm just starting to have fun.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Albastion]

reply to post by Albastion


You forgot the selected part that Northwoods was never approved nor acted on. The author was sent off to Europe to keep an eye on the Soviets and someone else was tasked with the thinking part of his previous job. The existence of a plan such as this does not imply that it or any other similar construct would particularly be acted on.