Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

reply to post by Pathos


Fair enough!
Apparently there is the claim that the chemicals present are from paint off of the building, but those who believe that thermate was used have discounted this theory.

The fact that we are even having this conversation is the saddest part of all, isn't it? Either way, alot of innocent people died on 9/11 and have been dying ever since.

reply to post by Pathos


It is about how, if a building collapses, could a column have such a perfect, diagonal cut to it?

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by Orion7911
And your "argument" is answering questions and issues I never asked.

That could be your problem. Your not asking the right questions about 9/11, so you are stuck in a conspiracy must have happened mode.

uh, actually its YOU that has yet to ask ANY QUESTIONS or offer ANY EVIDENCE to SUPPORT ANYTHING you've CLAIMED.

You're the one thats CLAIMED there is no conspiracy and you support the OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY STORY but REFUSE to offer/present ANY EVIDENCE whatsoever to prove why the OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY STORY is TRUE and WHY AND HOW "TRUTHERS" who don't believe it, ARE WRONG and its SPECULATIVE GARBAGE.

Or don't you remember anything you say here?

So pray tell everyone, WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTIONS PATHOS?

This should be even more amusing.

Originally posted by mpriebe81
Let's try a few:
Why was evidence of military-grade thermite[thermate] present at the WTC site?

I listened to the Danish scientist who studied the mater. I think its speculation on his part. Niels H. Harrit and associates are just looking to get fame from 9/11.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Yeah, you bring up a good point which has gone unmentioned in this thread(from what i've been able to read of it anyway). This was actually one anomaly which escaped my attention for the first couple of years of researching 9/11....and it's a bit of a smoking gun if you ask me!!!! How the heck would those huge columns break off/melt off in a completely straight and tidy manner? It defies all logic and reason.

Thanks for pointing that out nixie!!

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Pathos

 

It is about how, if a building collapses, could a column have such a perfect, diagonal cut to it?

There are two possible and logical explanations from a laymen perspective. Could that pillar be constructed into the design, so that it could withstand certain earthquakes? Another thought could be: Did the rescuers cut the pillar at that point, so that they can get to someone trapped underneath?

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by nixie_nox


nixie, before you let this one picture out of your sight:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a550a9b95f8c.jpg[/atsimg]

You should understand its context. Perhaps it's been fed to you, as it has to MANY people, of some sort of "evidence" of something. The latest wild speculation is this "thermite" or "thermate" (depends on who is telling the sotry) nonsense. They gleefully point to the column cut at the angle there, ans cry "Thermite!!!"

In fact, when you see many, many other photos IN CONTEXT you discover that the photo above was taken months after 9/11. There were many structural members still standing, and the angle cut is merely a result of the clean-up and removal of the debris.

It was that column. How could a column in a collapsed building look like that? It is behind the firefighter. And it has come up as evidence on ats many times.

OH? Then you have seen it discussed here on ATS? Like I said, maybe not enough to see ALL sides of the debate.

This does, however, point out a real problem with the "Truther" argument --- much of what they point to is so NOT in context as to be ridiculous, but they believe, and get others to believe, merely from those sorts of misleading images.

I'll try a real-life example to make a point. Has anyone here ever went on Holiday? To a place, maybe exotically beautiful, and thought "Wow! I'm going to take all the photos and videos I can, so I can share this with my friends back home!"

BUT, when you see the images, you find they just don't do justice to what you SAW when you were there...it's the nature of perspective, Human vision, memory and the limitations of visual media to re-create the large vistas, in context.

Looking at images from 9/11 is like that, EXCEPT worse...it's more like looking through the wrong end of a telescope. People tend to focus on minutiae, and POUNCE on something that just doesn't "feel right". It's the same sort of phenomenon seen in the "Moon Hoax" advocates. I've said this many times, because the similarities are striking.

I think it was the OP? Or someone a few pages back, pointed out the various and many science disciplines needed to fully comprehend all the events from 9/11. Instead, a form of myopia is seen, instead, as competing "theories" clammor for attention, and when one steps back and really looks at all of the noise people make, the inconsistencies in the "Truther's" claims become more obvious.

reply to post by Pathos


the thermite/thermate theory is definitely one of the aspects of 9/11 that has become widely debated. You should check out architect Richard Gage and see what he has to say on the matter!

Originally posted by mpriebe81
reply to post by Pathos

 

the thermite/thermate theory is definitely one of the aspects of 9/11 that has become widely debated. You should check out architect Richard Gage and see what he has to say on the matter!

I looked at:

www.youtube.com...

After watching his interview, I can relate it to the cut beam. I am willing to bet the material was left behind from cutting something similar to the pillar above. Since it can be used in welding (I use to work for my dad's welding business), thermite could have been left lying around from using welding equipment to remove metals. Also, if I remember correctly. the media did mention at one point that explosives were used to clear some of the rubble. It was apart of the clean up effort.

reply to post by weedwhacker


The thermite explanation has come to pass not JUST because multiple columns were obviously sheared off perfectly straight, but also because the key chemical components in thermate has been found in the dust at the WTC site.

I think that we can both agree on THIS much.....If the Federal Government were really concerned with figuring out how and WHY all of this happened, a real and extensive investigation would've been undertaken instead of a massive race to get all of the bits, pieces, and scraps(i.e. EVIDENCE) cleaned up.

Riddle me this: How does a fire that is feeding on organic materials such as paper and wood create molten pools of steel that last days and weeks after the initial incident? Paper, wood, gas etc. do NOT burn hot enough to melt steel, let alone keep it in a liquid state.

Originally posted by mpriebe81
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

I think that we can both agree on THIS much.....If the Federal Government were really concerned with figuring out how and WHY all of this happened, a real and extensive investigation would've been undertaken instead of a massive race to get all of the bits, pieces, and scraps(i.e. EVIDENCE) cleaned up.

Riddle me this: How does a fire that is feeding on organic materials such as paper and wood create molten pools of steel that last days and weeks after the initial incident? Paper, wood, gas etc. do NOT burn hot enough to melt steel, let alone keep it in a liquid state.

Your talking about two planes filled with fuel. Add the initial explosion of jet fuel to a gas fueled building, and you got yourself a massive inferno. What do you think was heating the place?

reply to post by Pathos

however, the bottom line is that 9/11 conspiracies are foolish theories without merit.

Another lie! You are spewing disinformation again.

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

825 architectural and engineering professionals
and 4581 other supporters including A&E students
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation

www.ae911truth.org...

Obviously, these experts in engineering and professional people do not think that 911 conspiracies are foolish. These people have found major problems with your government story and are demanding a new investigation, are you going to dismiss all these professional people as kooks, tin foil hats, nut jobs. Because, if you do then YOU are ignorant to the real facts and if not then, you are a disinformationist RIGHT?

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


It actually didnt. It was in the news back in 2000, I will try to find those articles as well.

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by Pathos

 

however, the bottom line is that 9/11 conspiracies are foolish theories without merit.

Another lie! You are spewing disinformation again.

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

825 architectural and engineering professionals
and 4581 other supporters including A&E students
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation

www.ae911truth.org...

Obviously, these experts in engineering and professional people do not think that 911 conspiracies are foolish. These people have found major problems with your government story and are demanding a new investigation, are you going to dismiss all these professional people as kooks, tin foil hats, nut jobs. Because, if you do then YOU are ignorant to the real facts and if not then, you are a disinformationist RIGHT?

Hahaha... Your making up words now. Good for you.

Did you happen to notice the name of the web-site you provided? Its a biased site. In order to create a rational argument, you need an unbiased source for information.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Albastion


I do have an agenda, to keep pounding the truth into people's heads until they stop believing the lies of the 9-11 "Truth" movement. That, and the fact that I did have friends at the Pentagon that morning..and they are quite clear as to what they saw hit that day.

If a (two story) house powered by gas can explode through out a three block radius, how large of an explosion would a 110 floor story building make? Keep in mind that each story has a gas heating system. Since both buildings were that massive, you can times that heat level by two.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

At some point in page 19, Pathos said:

"Life is not a box of chocolates, and people die to protect our freedoms. 9/11 conspiracy theories defy all logical reasoning. Look around. People are dying to protect your freedoms, and you are telling them that they are an agent of evil."

It is at this point that I came to the conclusion that Pathos is NOT going to be convinced that 9/11 was in fact an inside job false-flag attack and that he will ALWAYS blindly trust the government.

you mention that people are fighting to protect our freedoms. Yet since 9/11 we have lost MORE freedoms and have become a more oppressed nation. Don't believe me? then you better read up on the PATRIOT ACT which was signed by Bush in October 26, 2001.

You still believe that the main reason for the invasion of Afghanistan was to get rid of these terrorists who were blamed for this attack? you better review your history again; the main reason was oil.

And you claim that we call the people who are fighting overseas agents of evil. You are again wrong, we simply believe they are in a "war" (it shouldn't even be a war. How the heck do you win a "war on terrorism" anyway? it makes as much sense as declaring war on poverty or war on drugs) that should not have started at all. The ones we believe are evil, are the ones who orchestrated the 9/11 false flag attack, whoever those traitors are.

you claim that people who do not believe the 9/11 official story are grotesque. In my opinion, people who do not question their government's motives, who believe everything that comes from their politicians mouths, and who blindly believe the government actually cares about the people, are the REAL grotesque and sick individuals in the world.

to everyone trying their hardest to convince this guy of what actually happened, i believe you should all just give it up. This will obviously get nowhere and no kind of evidence will sway this blind individual from opening his eyes.

I feel sorry for you, but someday, when the truth of what actually happened on 9/11 becomes known, I hope we see you here and apologize for ignoring evidence, calling people who don't believe the official story "grotesque", and realize that not everything you believe is necessarily correct.

reply to post by Stylez

Why did the Government coerce those who listened to the contents of black box recordings vow not to mention what they heard?

Now see, this is amazing since I just listened to several of the family members talk about what they heard on the voice recorders........

Originally posted by newworld
At some point in page 19, Pathos said:

"Life is not a box of chocolates, and people die to protect our freedoms. 9/11 conspiracy theories defy all logical reasoning. Look around. People are dying to protect your freedoms, and you are telling them that they are an agent of evil."

It is at this point that I came to the conclusion that Pathos is NOT going to be convinced that 9/11 was in fact an inside job false-flag attack and that he will ALWAYS blindly trust the government.

It has nothing to do with blind trust in government, but it is about the rationality of the human condition.

reply to post by weedwhacker
Hi Weed,
Although I do think there are too many (not properly) explained things about 9/11, I agree that that those column pics, and there are many of them, are non-evidence without any proof positive of their providence and of when they were taken. There were a lot of girders still standing their length after the collapse, and so could have been cut down by other means in a similar way that a theoretical Thermite charge might or may have been used. It's just not the columns in the pics, it's also the lack of pictures of columns before they were taken away, (there are some) but the pics of ones I have seen were not so badly deformed, they were completely devoid of fireproofing, (lost their Asbestos?, which would still be in the air even now?) and a story in itself.



Just to add that those firemen in Nixie's pic do not appear to be using breathing equipment, if so and even if long after 9/11 they are in grave danger of having been exposed to Asbestosis.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by smurfy]