NATO strikes fuel tankers in Afghanistan, many dead

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I really don't know what to think of some of the Afghani's...they claim to be pious religious men, so no I wouldn't expect them to own automobiles; I also don't expect for them to take part along with the Taliban the looting of someone's personal property. I expect them to be looking to loot a truck of grain for their donkey.

Futhermore to that I don't believe anyone would be dumb enough to use the type of fuel carried in a tanker truck for any purpose inside the home, the fumes would certainly kill them. But I can't seem to find out what type of fuel it was and it could have been kerosene (I've never written that word before or used it in a sentence) for all I know.

This whole thing is just a performance and those people are being willingly sacrificed to accomplish the pathetic goals of wicked men. Political goals which are past the point of usefulness, which means those people are dying for nothing. Everyone tries to argue that they are rebels against western invaders, corrupt local leaders and an ineffective government...they are not...at this point in the war they are rebeling against a new sub-atomic (a new concept, I am pushing) order powerfully enthroned and have no (zero, zilch, nyet & nada) chance of success. Osama and Ayman know this but refuse to spare the lives of those people.

reply to post by IDK88


the only role the french played in the revolution was at the final battle of yorktown... the defeat of admiral graves fleet off the coast was vital and the french just made the siege that much more harder to get out of. it was the americans who beat cornwallis in the south.. it was the americans who kept the british bottled up in new york city and rhode island... militia was unreliable at best but yes, they played a role in it certainly.

reply to post by deltaboy


i have this book...

reply to post by Foppezao


"MAK (Maktab al-Khidamat)
Osama has been involved in establishing 2 very important organizations, MAK (Maktab al-khidamat) in 1979 and Al-Qa'ida in 1988. While the purpose of these two were different — MAK was built to drive the Soviet troops out of Afghanistan — they are linked in the sense that Al-Qa'ida would never have come were it not for MAK.
MAK was started by Osama together with the leader of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood, Abdallah Azzam.
With MAK, Osama was able to recruit troops from all over the Arab world, but especially from Saudi Arabia, Algeria and Egypt. More than 10,000 are believed to have been training by MAK, and then participated in the warfare against the Soviet Union. Large number of the MAK troops lost their lives in the war, but the survivors came through as exceptionally skilled soldiers.
There have been many suggestions that MAK received both funds and training from CIA (the main intelligence organization of USA) — this has never been officially denied by CIA.
MAK was one of 7 Mujahedin factions in Afghanistan, and was hence part of the great success they had in driving the Soviets out of the country. "

reply to post by TheCoffinman


But without Louis' political and financial backing the Americans wouldn't have acquired a State. Louis financial support was the primary source of capital in the beginning, during and after the war, and was affectionately refered to simply as the King and the existence of the State is wholely attributable to His Most Christian Majesty, not France and not anyone else. Many conviently forget that before America was the United States or British colonies it was France, then the Americans decided they were British and betrayed us, after they realized that they made themselves slaves to the British they came back asking for help. The point is that without a King you are not even on the playing field...sorry to burst your bubble. How much they want it is irrelevant. But really it's a rant for another thread. Just to be certain...I thought the whole world was France until I was 8 years old.

Pre-USA

The Taliban and Al Qaeda just got backing from the wrong King (actually they got backing from a wannabe King) and that is all that's written about them. Anyone following their lead is a fool and is going off to certain death. Just like those people who died in that explosion

OMG, why is there debate over this?

These guys STOLE THE FUEL TRUCKS. This is not in question.

"Mujahadeen", "Taliban", "villager", "insurgent"-- it doesn't matter what label you put on them.

These individuals forcibly hijacked NATO fuel trucks. It's not like they thought they were cousin Habib's fuel trucks and they were borrowing them for the weekend. No, these were very plainly NATO fuel trucks, and as such were specifically targeted and hijacked.

Unfortunately, they chose the wrong road for their getaway and got stuck. I'm sure they were trying to lighten the load so they could get UNstuck and take their loot back to Osama's proverbial cave. NATO forces, seeing that these trucks had become material support for the enemy (there is that pesky war thing going on over there, you know), correctly identified them as a stationary target in an extremely vulnerable position, and eliminated them before said fuel could go in the gas tank of an explosive-laden car, or to burn down the local girl's school.

If I were an innocent Afghani citizen, and I saw what was obviously a hijacked NATO fuel truck, I would certainly not run TO the aforementioned truck, as the likelihood of a very big bomb being dropped on it at any moment is pretty high. The country's been at war for some time now, and people aren't stupid. AWAY from the truck, that's where any sane person's going to be.

Again, why all the fuss? IT'S WAR. The whole point of war is to kill "the bad guys". Stealing fuel trucks from one faction pretty clearly identifies one as "the bad guys" to that faction. Not a lot of wiggle room there, regardless of affiliation. If that faction just happens to have enough firepower to blow pretty much whatever they want to kingdom come, it's probably not a good idea to steal their trucks, as that firepower is then dedicated to killing YOU. If you see someone else doing so, it's probably not a great idea to be loitering in the area, either. Again, these people have known war all their lives--they know what's up.

If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, presumably to take what is yours, what do you do? Try to talk them down? Reason with them? No, you SHOOT THEM. If you don't have a gun, you beat, stab, or bludgeon them with whatever's available until they are either dead or gone. Once an individual makes the conscious decision that they are committed to those actions, then they assume responsibility and consequences for those actions. Thievery, robbery, and hijacking are categorically NOT friendly actions, especially in a war zone.

Hmm, I don't think the villagers would care where the fuel trucks came from. The trucks were stuck in the mud, in the middle of nowhere, near to their village, and the Taliban were chucking the fuel away.
That equals "free fuel" to a population that is one of the poorest on the planet.
They either, wouldn't think about US reprisals, or more likely, would think that they could get away with a pot or kettle full of fuel before they got caught. Selling a couple of gallons of fuel could feed their families for a day or two.
The Taliban who stole the fuel trucks deserved to be punished, but any villagers who were there, were just taking advantage of an opportunity that presented itself to them. Those villagers did not, IMHO, deserve to die, but how else could the UN stop the Taliban from getting away with it?
It's virtually impossible to seperate Taliban from opportunist civilian in cases like this.
It's a shame, but I think the villagers basically got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, took a chance on grabbing some free fuel, and paid for it dearly.

G

reply to post by TheCoffinman


So do I...

reply to post by TheCoffinman


Fought in the war against the Soviets? These guys must be in their 50s by now. I don't think I'd spend money on that...Osama is an idiot.

Originally posted by IDK88
reply to post by TheCoffinman

 

But without Louis' political and financial backing the Americans wouldn't have acquired a State. Louis financial support was the primary source of capital in the beginning, during and after the war, and was affectionately refered to simply as the King and the existence of the State is wholely attributable to His Most Christian Majesty, not France and not anyone else. Many conviently forget that before America was the United States or British colonies it was France, then the Americans decided they were British and betrayed us, after they realized that they made themselves slaves to the British they came back asking for help. The point is that without a King you are not even on the playing field...sorry to burst your bubble. How much they want it is irrelevant. But really it's a rant for another thread. Just to be certain...I thought the whole world was France until I was 8 years old.

Pre-USA

The Taliban and Al Qaeda just got backing from the wrong King (actually they got backing from a wannabe King) and that is all that's written about them. Anyone following their lead is a fool and is going off to certain death. Just like those people who died in that explosion

i dont know what kinda textbooks they hand out in french schools but theyre most certainly propaganda if thats what uve come to believe. the american colonies were never apart of the french possesions in north america... not ever.

you have a very western, christian point of view it seems... if you were an afghan or waziri, im sure you'd think differently.. do not forget that an unproportianal amount of the world resources and wealth belong to the united states and its european allies... what do the afghans have that we need....

reply to post by TheCoffinman


That's not true...I have a well rounded and correct view of this particular world and everything that is happening in it. I will demonstrate...

There is a very strong possibility that Al Qaeda is not even real in the sense of it being a native born Arab/Middle Eastern organization, which brings in to question the nature of the Taliban and both of these organizations in relation to the average Afghan on the mud road.

Can't you see that the TFG, Hizbul Islam and Al Shabaab of Somalia are the same thing as the Afghan government, the Taliban and Al Qaeda of Afghanistan? I am just as certain, and sure you will agree, that all three groups of Somalia are the fragments of the ICU (the warlords and orginal members of the TFG have taken a back seat and retired)...thus it becomes obvious that the situation in Afghanistan is probably just one thing that has fragmented into three parts.

In both cases America and the World has accepted an aspect of the Taliban and the ICU and by association then, Islamic Sharia Law...neither was recognized just three years ago.

This war is to isolate the third part, Al Shabaab/Al Qaeda, which is claiming authority over the other two parts, the entire country and trying to pull the region into the abyss...It is leading the people to their deaths in the places that it doesn't control and ruling them with brutality where they are.

And you support this...the very part that many people allege is nothing more than a front for rouge intelligence groups througout the world...and then you question my education.

There are Taliban in the Afghan government...There are Islamists in the Somalia government...no one cares about this...their are 60 Islamic countries in the world...it is not rare or special. But Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden are fiction...Al Shabaab are fiction...Al Shabaab is an Al Qaeda proxy...it is not real. The Afghans and Somalis who believe in it, and you, are being led to certain destruction.

The people who created this monster once had a chance at accomplishing their goals...capturing the World...but this is no longer possible...my education leads me to this conclusion.

and another thing...look at a map of North America...this place was Portugal and France before even one British or Spanish colony emerged...

Why would the British name a city Montreal or a Lake Champlain or Erie?...seriously man, pick up a book.

I really don't know what to think of some of the Afghani's...they claim to be pious religious men, so no I wouldn't expect them to own automobiles; I also don't expect for them to take part along with the Taliban the looting of someone's personal property. I expect them to be looking to loot a truck of grain for their donkey.

Do you know how ignorant you sound? You obviously know nothing about these people if you assume that they all ride donkeys.

It may come as a shock to you, but the Taliban and even Al Queda (not the same) both have vehicles and armor in their arsenal. Mind you that it's abandoned Soviet equipment like PT-76s and T-56 (or whatever old Soviet MBT), but they still function and require gas. How do you expect a group, labeled as terrorists by the free world, to come up with the gas to maintain their existence? Do you assume they use dry camel dung as fuel or something?

Just because they are forced to live in caves does not mean they do not use gas to survive.

Futhermore to that I don't believe anyone would be dumb enough to use the type of fuel carried in a tanker truck for any purpose inside the home, the fumes would certainly kill them. But I can't seem to find out what type of fuel it was and it could have been kerosene (I've never written that word before or used it in a sentence) for all I know.

Typical words from an armchair tactician. If you were in a desperate situation, you will find a way to use whatever you can to survive. They just can't pick and choose like the rich American military.

If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, presumably to take what is yours, what do you do? Try to talk them down? Reason with them? No, you SHOOT THEM.

Maybe that's your national way of dealing, but things are different around the world. People like me are tough and honorable enough to only kill the person if they were trying to kill me first, we don't need unnecessary force to do unnecessary things to get ourselves into unnecessary situations.

Originally posted by IDK88


This story really illustrates how the Taliban are liars. The fuel tankers were hijacked...most likely insurgents would have the skill for this. When the tankers were bombed, all the people in the vicinity are now called villagers. Taliban don't have uniforms, so, such a switch is easy...everyone that dies from that team can easily call themselves civilians and be the relatives of someone after they are dead.

But this is where the lie is exposed...that villagers were freely allowed to take whatever fuel they needed and that the hijackers wanted nothing in return for what is probably a valuable commodity. So, the Taliban are Robin Hood now...steal from the rich give to the poor...?

The people standing around the truck...are obvioiusly criminals...as there is no way they thought the trucks or the contents was their personal property...and deserved the firey hell that engulfed them, but we must still be careful with who we kill.

If villagers don't want to die they need to stay out of the way.

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

You know the civilians have families lol, I think you do have no sense of reasoning ^^ seriously you either watch too many 9/11 related movies or FOX news. You seem to not care at all for the deaths of innocent Afghans, can you even tell me how many have been killed since the invasion? Don't run to google.

The people standing around the truck...are obvioiusly criminals...as there is no way they thought the trucks or the contents was their personal property...and deserved the firey hell that engulfed them, but we must still be careful with who we kill.

Read what you are saying lol hopefully everyone sees what I see, other wise I think I see things differently which makes me crazy.

reply to post by oozyism


I just know...I cannot explain and I will illustrate why...

Do you know what are the Three (3) Worlds? If you don't...to be short it is a mother and two daughters...often mentioned in all societies, pagan included, and religions throughout history...It is also the related to the discussion on the Standard Model in Quantum Mechanics...apparently QM has applications in matters of state.

These three worlds exist everywhere all of the time, even in Afghanistan. How these three worlds are related is critical to understanding the shape the nation state will ultimately take.

The Taliban and/or Al Qaeda can't win because it would be a violation of sub-atomic realities. On Earth as it is in Heaven...Ringing any bells in your massive brains? Since not many people have seen the relation between Quantum Mechanics and the structure of the Nation State...I feel it would be a waste of time to even discuss these underlying realities...if I did you would understand why the only solution for the Taliban and the Afghan people is to surrender, not to the Americans or the West...but to something far more powerful. The quantum structure is fixed and firm right now...their solution is incompatible with things that they don't happen to have the power to change.

Did that make sense?

If they can change the quantum structure, then perhaps they might have a chance...

Originally posted by IDK88
reply to post by oozyism

 

I just know...I cannot explain and I will illustrate why...





The Taliban and/or Al Qaeda can't win because it would be a violation of sub-atomic realities. On Earth as it is in Heaven...Ringing any bells in your massive brains?
Did that make sense?

If they can change the quantum structure, then perhaps they might have a chance...

No that does not make any sense .

And yes it does ring a bell .

You were formerly known as HuckFinn
Banned from ATS on May 31, 2009.

[img]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f83d16eeca09.jpg[/atsimg]


What say you .......?


Edit to add: You just changed your avatar after i posted the image above.
How obvious of you HuckFinn.

Busted .


[edit on 5-9-2009 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by UmbraSumus


I am not Huck Finn. But what I am saying is that just as certain as everything has structure, so does the nation. The plan of Al Qaeda and the Taliban has a structure that is not compatible; thus it cannot work.

Besides...Al Qaeda is not even real, so I don't know why you support them.



[edit on 5-9-2009 by IDK88]

[edit on 5-9-2009 by IDK88]

Good. The fuel trucks were smoked.

And the Taliban. Good.

And some thieves. Likely Taliban. Good.

Ninety is a good day.

Maybe we should set up some more trucks to be hijacked.

reply to post by UmbraSumus


So you do agree that the reason's why the Taliban/Al Qaeda clique cannot be explained by me based on how I reckon reality?

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by IDK88


This story really illustrates how the Taliban are liars. The fuel tankers were hijacked...most likely insurgents would have the skill for this. When the tankers were bombed, all the people in the vicinity are now called villagers. Taliban don't have uniforms, so, such a switch is easy...everyone that dies from that team can easily call themselves civilians and be the relatives of someone after they are dead.

But this is where the lie is exposed...that villagers were freely allowed to take whatever fuel they needed and that the hijackers wanted nothing in return for what is probably a valuable commodity. So, the Taliban are Robin Hood now...steal from the rich give to the poor...?

The people standing around the truck...are obvioiusly criminals...as there is no way they thought the trucks or the contents was their personal property...and deserved the firey hell that engulfed them, but we must still be careful with who we kill.

If villagers don't want to die they need to stay out of the way.

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

You know the civilians have families lol, I think you do have no sense of reasoning ^^ seriously you either watch too many 9/11 related movies or FOX news. You seem to not care at all for the deaths of innocent Afghans, can you even tell me how many have been killed since the invasion? Don't run to google.

The people standing around the truck...are obvioiusly criminals...as there is no way they thought the trucks or the contents was their personal property...and deserved the firey hell that engulfed them, but we must still be careful with who we kill.

Read what you are saying lol hopefully everyone sees what I see, other wise I think I see things differently which makes me crazy.

That made no sense at all?

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

I really don't know what to think of some of the Afghani's...they claim to be pious religious men, so no I wouldn't expect them to own automobiles; I also don't expect for them to take part along with the Taliban the looting of someone's personal property. I expect them to be looking to loot a truck of grain for their donkey.

Do you know how ignorant you sound? You obviously know nothing about these people if you assume that they all ride donkeys.

It may come as a shock to you, but the Taliban and even Al Queda (not the same) both have vehicles and armor in their arsenal. Mind you that it's abandoned Soviet equipment like PT-76s and T-56 (or whatever old Soviet MBT), but they still function and require gas. How do you expect a group, labeled as terrorists by the free world, to come up with the gas to maintain their existence? Do you assume they use dry camel dung as fuel or something?

Just because they are forced to live in caves does not mean they do not use gas to survive.

Futhermore to that I don't believe anyone would be dumb enough to use the type of fuel carried in a tanker truck for any purpose inside the home, the fumes would certainly kill them. But I can't seem to find out what type of fuel it was and it could have been kerosene (I've never written that word before or used it in a sentence) for all I know.

Typical words from an armchair tactician. If you were in a desperate situation, you will find a way to use whatever you can to survive. They just can't pick and choose like the rich American military.

If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, presumably to take what is yours, what do you do? Try to talk them down? Reason with them? No, you SHOOT THEM.

Maybe that's your national way of dealing, but things are different around the world. People like me are tough and honorable enough to only kill the person if they were trying to kill me first, we don't need unnecessary force to do unnecessary things to get ourselves into unnecessary situations.

They are not freedom fighters they are being led to their deaths and you support this?