Noah's Flood did happen!

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[Edited on 14-5-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

Wow glad we cleared that one up.

Next question please...

Don't something like 367 versions of that story exist, give or take a few? I thought it was a common fact, but I have some less common facts to add.

1. The revelation of the coming flood often comes from a fish, or fish-man, both in hindu and native american traditions.
2. The survivor is the 10th antediluvian (preflood) king.
3. The survivor's name means "wise". Notably, this means that Noah wasn't the original survivor in the bible, but Enoch, 3 generations before him- it's probably just a mixup in all those "begats".
4. The Survivor Anchors on a mountain and sends out birds before disembarking.
5. Many versions include a serpent, either as an instrument of the creator in causing it, or as a malicious independent bringer of the flood.
6. The waters come from the ground as well as the sky. This ties into a broader theory, related to that of subterranean realms, which basically holds that the earth contained a huge high-pressure water table which ruptured in the flood, perhaps in combination with a crustal displacement on the Earth.

Also, in hebrew tradition, the secrets of science revealed to Enoch by God (or to men by fallen angels, depending on your source) are preserved on two pillars, one of brick and one of stone (or marble). In order to survive the coming deluge, which is supposedly foretold by Adam from the beginning. This is the origin of the freemasons, as keepers of that knowledge. It is also the origin of the Kabbalah.

There's many evidence that supports the existence of Noah's flood:

1) Geological
2) Eye witness accounts
3) Flood Stories

1) There are many records of fossils on mountains
2) There are eye witness accounts of people who have seen Noah's ark resting on the mountains of Ararat.
James Irwin (not sure) the astronaut has reportedly seen the ark.
3) There are similar flood stories in asia, europe, africa.
(40 days, 40 nights, people drowning, 8 people survived, rainbow)

reply to post by sara09


Nice post sara09. Welcome to ATS.

This subject is very controversial with the folks here on ATS. The majority don’t believe in such a thing. The debates on a total planetary submersion can get pretty nasty.

The only global flooding that is accepted by most on the board is melting of the ice caps and the submerging of the coastal regions. This is reasonable with the facts presented. The other two theories that are accepted by some is the flooding of the Black Sea and or the flooding of the Mediterranean.

As being a person brought up in a Christian faith I’m still inclined to believe in a total submerged world. You would think exposure to all these other theories would have swayed me away from the tradition view. For some reason it hasn’t. Everyone has given excellent points of debate for all the above theories but something is just missing with all of them.

Traditional Christianity explains that God instructed Noah to build a boat and collect two of each animal, housing them in the ark. Eventually the flood came and drowned all those that lived on dry ground. The reason God needed to flood the planet was because the majority of man was so violent and nasty. He needed to wipe out all of them except for a selected few. This pretty much sums it up.

Most Christians find the Global Deluge a difficult concept to grasp. They usually would accept the theories of the flooding of the Back Sea and or the flooding of the Mediterranean over an entire submerged world. People just can’t see it magically rain for 40 days and nights. Also, there are too many animals on the planet to fit into an ark of that size. What did they all eat? So many unanswered questions. Many just accept it as faith.

For years I have been trying to validate a total submerged planet concept within the biblical framework. This is how I see the events transpiring beyond the biblical explanation:

1. Earth is smaller in diameter than it currently is and has some small oceans.
2. The earth is surrounded by a dense canopy of water vapor.
3. Man has very large life spans. Some over 900 years of age.
4. With unbridled freewill in the world man is always inclined to do bad.
5. Those that are good eventually turn bad due to corrupting influences.
6. God reasons that longevity won’t work in a corrupted world. His plan is threatened.
7. God decrees that life spans need to be reduced to 120 years, give or take.
8. The atmosphere of the planet needs to change to reduce the life spans.
9. External planetary bodies hold the canopy in place.
10. The planet between Mars and Jupiter is destroyed to release the canopy.
11. (I am currently working on a theory to explain the event above.)
12. The canopy falls and floods the entire planet. The earth is covered in water many days.
13. God makes the planet expand to bring dry land out of the water.
14. The expansion process is fast in the beginning.
15. Occupants of ark get out and notice first rainbow ever.
16. First allowance for humans to eat animal flesh. Humans will need protein to survive.
17. First intoxication of fruit juice. Fermentation process begins.
18. Life spans gradually reduce over hundreds of years.

Everything in between I do not have answers for. Maybe all the animals were young and small. Maybe the food was miracle food that magically kept reproducing itself. I just don’t know. It’s just everything above there is no doubt.

reply to post by sara09


Eye witness accounts? Yeah ok, I did a search and there is no clear picture of an ark.

I'm sorry but if there is no clear pic of an ark you can't say there are eye witness accounts.

reply to post by lostinspace


Wow. It never occurred to you that the need to make up all those stories and theories to validate the Biblical account of the flood, in fact means that it probably didn't happen the way the Bible says?

Originally posted by ThirdI
reply to post by sara09

 

Eye witness accounts? Yeah ok, I did a search and there is no clear picture of an ark.

I'm sorry but if there is no clear pic of an ark you can't say there are eye witness accounts.

The eyewitness accounts are probably little or no good, and if it were a court of law they would be thrown out summarily. That being said...
Alleged Eyewitness Accounts Summary

You probably already saw that, but thought I would post just n case.
I don't buy the whole "photos or it didn't happen" ideology.
This morning my wife was an eyewitness to me clumsily spilling a bowel of cereal all over the floor. Unfortunately she didn't take any photos of the event, so if she tells her story people will laugh and ridicule her as a hoaxer,...no doubt.

Reply to post by snowen20

Lies. Pics or it didn't hqppen




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

But what about atheism ?.

reply to post by OMsk3ptic


I don't think you have to 'make anything up', or at least you don't have to make up any more than what is stated in the bible..

What IS the Vapor Canopy? Recall the first chapter of Genesis.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good. (KJV)

Consider the implications of what you just read! Waters above the heavens! This is the vapor canopy! "Could this be?" Yes, it could. "Well", you might say, "don't we have waters above the heavens today?" Yes we do .... but .... but ..... There's more. Here's Psalm 104. (Hey! That rhymes.)

5 [Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever. 6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as [with] a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. 7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away. 8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them. 9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Notice verse 7, "At thy rebuke they fled" and verse 9, "that they turn not again to cover the earth" . These waters are not there any more or at least not like they once used to be! These waters are known as the "Vapor Canopy" which encircled the Earth during the time of Noah. We do have a vapor canopy above us today. But based upon Biblical description, it is not like it once was.

reply to post by darkAngel

The deluge or great flood?
ENKI/EA and Utnapishtim encounter/ The deluge

Lines 1-203, Tablet XI
The god Ea leaks the secret plan
Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh a secret story that begins in the old city of Shuruppak on the banks of the Euphrates River.
The "great gods" Anu, Enlil, Ninurta, Ennugi, and Ea were sworn to secrecy about their plan to cause the flood.
But the god Ea (= Sumerian god Enki) repeated the plan to Utnapishtim through a reed wall in a reed house.
Ea commanded Utnapishtim to demolish his house and build a boat, regardless of the cost, to keep living beings alive.
The boat must have equal dimensions with corresponding width and length and be covered over like Apsu boats.
Utnapishtim promised to do what Ea commanded.
He asked Ea what he should say to the city elders and the population.
Ea tells him to say that Enlil has rejected him and he can no longer reside in the city or set foot in Enlil's territory.
He should also say that he will go down to the Apsu "to live with my lord Ea".
Note: The Apsu was a fresh water marsh near the temple of Ea/Enki at the city of Eridu.[9]
Ea will provide abundant rain, a profusion of fowl and fish, and a wealthy harvest of wheat and bread.
link

en.wikipedia.org...

Noah's Ark

Noah's Ark (Hebrew: תֵּבַת נֹחַ‎, Tebhath Noaḥ in Classical Hebrew; Tevat Noakh in Modern Hebrew) is the vessel which, according to the Book of Genesis (chapters 6-9) and the Quran (surah Hud), was built by Noah at God's command to save himself, his family, and the world's animals from a worldwide deluge.

Genesis 6-9 (New International Version, ©2011)

Genesis 6
Wickedness in the World
1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the LORD said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Noah and the Flood
9 This is the account of Noah and his family.
Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God. 10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress[c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high.[d] 16 Make a roof for it, leaving below the roof an opening one cubit[e] high all around.[f] Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.”

22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

link

www.biblegateway.com...


Quran Great Flood Sura 11
The Believers

[11:23] As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, and devote themselves to their Lord, they are the dwellers of Paradise; they abide therein forever.
[11:24] The example of these two groups is like the blind and deaf, compared to the seer and hearer. Are they equal? Would you not take heed?

Noah

[11:25] We sent Noah to his people, saying, "I come to you as a clear warner.
[11:26] "You shall not worship except GOD. I fear for you the retribution of a painful day."
[11:27] The leaders who disbelieved among his people said, "We see that you are no more than a human being like us, and we see that the first people to follow you are the worst among us. We see that you do not possess any advantage over us. Indeed, we think you are liars."
[11:28] He said, "O my people, what if I have a solid proof from my Lord? What if He has blessed me out of His mercy, though you cannot see it? Are we going to force you to believe therein?
[11:29] "O my people, I do not ask you for any money; my wage comes only from GOD. I am not dismissing those who believed; they will meet their Lord (and He alone will judge them). I see that you are ignorant people.
[11:30] "O my people, who can support me against GOD, if I dismiss them? Would you not take heed?

All Power Belongs to God

[11:31] "I do not claim that I possess the treasures of GOD, nor do I know the future, nor do I claim to be an angel. Nor do I say to those despised by your eyes that GOD will not bestow any blessings upon them. GOD knows best what is in their innermost thoughts. (If I did this,) I would be a transgressor."
[11:32] They said, "O Noah, you have argued with us, and kept on arguing. We challenge you to bring the doom you threaten us with, if you are truthful."
[11:33] He said, "GOD is the One who brings it to you, if He so wills, then you cannot escape.
[11:34] "Even if I advised you, my advice cannot benefit you if it is GOD's will to send you astray. He is your Lord, and to Him you will be returned."
[11:35] If they say, "He made up this story," then say, "If I made it up, then I am responsible for my crime, and I am innocent of any crime you commit."
[11:36] Noah was inspired: "No more of your people are going to believe, beyond those who already believe. Do not be saddened by their actions.
[11:37] "Build the ark under our watchful eyes, and with our inspiration, and do not implore Me on behalf of those who have transgressed; they are destined to drown."

He Who Laughs Last Laughs Best

[11:38] While he was building the ark, whenever some of his people passed by him they laughed at him. He said, "You may be laughing at us, but we are laughing at you, just as you are laughing.
[11:39] "You will surely find out who will suffer a shameful retribution, and incur an everlasting punishment."
[11:40] When our judgment came, and the atmosphere boiled over, we said, "Carry on it a pair of each kind,* together with your family, except those who are condemned. Carry with you those who have believed," and only a few have believed with him.
[11:41] He said, "Come on board. In the name of GOD shall be its sailing, and its mooring. My Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful."
[11:42] As it sailed with them in waves like hills, Noah called his son, who was isolated: "O my son, come ride with us; do not be with the disbelievers."
[11:43] He said, "I will take refuge on top of a hill, to protect me from the water." He said, "Nothing can protect anyone today from GOD's judgment; only those worthy of His mercy (will be saved)." The waves separated them, and he was among those who drowned.

Quran Great Flood Sura 71

71:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
[71:1] We sent Noah to his people: "You shall warn your people before a painful retribution afflicts them."
[71:2] He said, "O my people, I am a manifest warner to you.
[71:3] "To alert you that you shall worship GOD, reverence Him, and obey me.
[71:4] "He will then forgive you your sins and respite you for a predetermined period. Most assuredly, GOD's appointment can never be delayed, once it is due, if you only knew."
[71:5] He said, "My Lord, I have invited my people night and day.
[71:6] "But my invitation only increased their aversion.
[71:7] "Whenever I invited them to be forgiven by You, they placed their fingers in their ears, covered themselves with their clothes, insisted, and turned arrogant.
[71:8] "Then I invited them publicly.
[71:9] "Then I proclaimed to them loudly, and I spoke to them privately.
[71:10] "I said, `Implore your Lord for forgiveness; He is Forgiving.
[71:11] " `He will then shower you generously with rain.
[71:12] " `And provide you with money and children, and orchards, and streams.' "
[71:13] Why should you not strive to reverence GOD?
[71:14] He is the One who created you in stages.
[71:15] Do you not realize that GOD created seven universes in layers?
[71:16] He designed the moon therein to be a light, and placed the sun to be a lamp.
[71:17] And GOD germinated you from the earth like plants.
[71:18] Then He returns you into it, and He will surely bring you out.
[71:19] GOD made the earth habitable for you.
[71:20] That you may build roads therein.
[71:21] Noah said, "My Lord, they disobeyed me, and followed those who were even more corrupted when blessed with money and children.
[71:22] "They schemed terrible schemes.
[71:23] "They said, `Do not abandon your gods. Do not abandon Wadd, Suwaa`, Yaghouth, Ya`ooq, and Nasr.'
[71:24] "They misled many. Therefore, let the wicked plunge deeper into loss."
[71:25] Because of their sins they were drowned and assigned to the hellfire. They found no helpers to protect them from GOD.
[71:26] Noah also said, "My Lord, do not leave a single disbeliever on earth.
[71:27] "For if you let them, they will only mislead your servants and give birth to nothing but wicked disbelievers.
[71:28] "My Lord, forgive me and my parents, and anyone who enters my home as a believer, and all the believing men and women. But do not give the disbelievers anything but annihilation."

link

www.masjidtucson.org...

[COLOR=GOLD]
I agree it did happen S&F

Could the vapor canopy have come from Mars?
A lot of water vanished from there at some time in the past.
The water above the firmament does not have to mean that it surrounded the Earth.
It just means there was water in heaven that came down.
The water on Mars went somewhere did it not?
And no i don't have any pictures.

Lake Agassiz was an immense glacial lake located in the center of North America. Fed by glacial runoff at the end of the last glacial period, its area was larger than all of the modern Great Lakes combined, and it held more water than contained by all lakes in the world today.[1]

Geologists have found evidence that a major outbreak of Lake Agassiz about 13,000 BP drained north through the Mackenzie River into the Arctic Ocean.[5][6] A return of the ice for some time offered a reprieve, but after retreating north of the Canada – United States border about 9,900 years ago, Lake Agassiz refilled. The last major shift in drainage occurred about 8,400 years BP. The melting of remaining Hudson Bay ice caused lake Agassiz to drain nearly completely. This final drainage of Lake Agassiz contributed an estimated 1 to 3 meters to total post-glacial global sea level rise.[citation needed] Much of the final drainage may have occurred in a very short time, in one or two events, perhaps taking as little as a year.[citation needed]

en.wikipedia.org...


It said it occured within a year. Think about the impact it had on the world. The cold watter rushing into the gulf would of wreaked havoc on the ocean streams and global weather for decades or more.



Here is a link to all the flood stories from around the world. www.talkorigins.org...

I personally like reading about what the south americans had to say. What they say seemed violent. Earthquakes, water shooting into the air. 10,000 b.c was a great time for earth.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
I personally like reading about what the south americans had to say. What they say seemed violent. Earthquakes, water shooting into the air. 10,000 b.c was a great time for earth

The biblical flood records water coming from the deep to aid in flooding the world. As Vagabond stated below it is assumed subterranean chambers of water were from those depths.

6. The waters come from the ground as well as the sky. This ties into a broader theory, related to that of subterranean realms, which basically holds that the earth contained a huge high-pressure water table which ruptured in the flood, perhaps in combination with a crustal displacement on the Earth.

How about another theory?

The ejection from waters from the deep were caused by a massive tsunami that resulted from a large asteroid impact. The biblical account said the waters from the deep came before the rains fell from heaven. The result of a asteroid impact would be instantly observable with land and water movement way before an atmospheric disturbance culmination.

Originally posted by ThirdI
reply to post by sara09

 

Eye witness accounts? Yeah ok, I did a search and there is no clear picture of an ark.

I'm sorry but if there is no clear pic of an ark you can't say there are eye witness accounts.

Watch the following video if you want to learn about how Noah's Ark was found. It shows a lot of things, like the anchor stones Noah used, animal remains (hair, antlers), metal rivets, and other stuff, that makes it very hard to deny that Ron Wyatt indeed found the Ark: www.youtube.com...

A pic of how it looks today... not very boat-like, of course: noahsarksearch.com...

Noah wasnt the only survivor. The bible, folklore and others all state that the people who survived ran to the hills so basically sheep herders, farmers and tribesmen were the survivors. Just like today. Major cities and grand populations are begging for death living mere feet above sea level.

The survivors all came from mountainous areas.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Lake Agassiz was an immense glacial lake located in the center of North America. Fed by glacial runoff at the end of the last glacial period, its area was larger than all of the modern Great Lakes combined, and it held more water than contained by all lakes in the world today.[1]

Geologists have found evidence that a major outbreak of Lake Agassiz about 13,000 BP drained north through the Mackenzie River into the Arctic Ocean Much of the final drainage may have occurred in a very short time, in one or two events, perhaps taking as little as a year.[citation needed]

I read somewhere that the Sumerians said the flood was caused by the polar ice cap growing so large that it slipped into the ocean. Now doesn't this sound similar? How could this possibly be a coincidence? During the ice age the ocean was 200-300 feet lower. Civilization mostly sits at the water's edge, be that ocean or river mouths. Look at Google Earth and see the continental shelves. An area of land greater than all of Asia was submerged in a very short time. Try to imagine how many cities sit under the sediment deep under the ocean. The flood myth is no myth, its proven fact.

Now did someone build a boat and save all the animals because god told him too?

Well.....

read somewhere that the Sumerians said the flood was caused by the polar ice cap growing so large that it slipped into the ocean.

The Sumerians never said that - its made up but feel free to look at the translated Sumerian and Akkadian texts yourself.

No biblical flood - lots or smaller regional ones spread over a great period of time

fossils on mountain tops

Ouch, fossils don't form on top of mountains they form in sediments which is later forced up by tectonic action.....I suggest a geology 101 book

Civilization started along river valleys (think Egyptian, Sumerian, Happara) not on the sea coast, later civilizations arose away from rivers and in same cases on coastal areas. A rise in the sea level would have caused people to move further up river...

Nope Noah Flood didn't happen but the Hebrew gentlemen writing the Bible took a common story of that era and place and applied it to the religion they created.