I Know How You Feel

To all the people out there who have suspicions that Obama is going to bankrupt the country, make Islam our national religion, require mandatory service, indoctrinate our country's students, force rfid chips and swine flu vaccinations, kill off the old people, socialize the country and mandate abortions, etc., let me just say that I know how you feel.

For the past 7-8 years, many of us (including me) strongly suspected that Bush was going to declare martial law, take away our guns, burn the Constitution, postpone or eliminate the elections, turn the US into a fascist state, hoard people into detention centers across the nation, attack Iran, outlaw abortion, instate bird flu quarantine, hell, SPREAD bird flu! ... etc.

But I'd like to remind you that those things didn't happen.

Sure, Bush wasn't a great president. He made a LOT of mistakes and screwed up pretty badly, but the country survived. And we will continue to survive. Obama has and will continue to make his share of mistakes.

I am looking back on all the fears I had about what I was just SURE Bush was GOING to do and I feel a little foolish, to tell you the truth, that I was so suspicious of every little thing he did. I let my imagination run away with me. I let every negative suggestion turn into a fear. I let my distrust of the man rule.

I bring this up because exactly the same thing is happening all over again, except the focus is Obama instead of Bush. Most of the ridicule on ATS about Obama is about things people suspect that he's going to do. Sure there are policy issues that we disagree with, but the vast majority of fear around him is based totally on a projection of the future. Of what MIGHT happen... Of what he MIGHT do...

I just wonder how good it is for people to live in this state of suspicion, fear and distrust... I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't feel what they're feeling or that they have no right to be afraid. We need to question authority.

What I'm saying is that I know how you feel.

I know how it feels to distrust someone so strongly and to not be able to FATHOM how anyone could trust him. I understand that some of you distrust Obama SO much that he can't do anything right. Because that's how I felt (and feel) about Bush and Cheney. I'd like to ask those of you reading this who did support Bush to remember how you felt about him in 2003-2005. And then maybe you'll understand how someone might be giving Obama the benefit of the doubt in his first couple years in office. It's an exercise in putting the shoe on the other foot to see how another person might be viewing things. Just a suggestion.

But if I had the Bush years to live over again, I think I'd take more time to ask myself if I really want my life to be driven by suspicion and fear of the future. I don't think I would allow myself to be afraid of things that "might" happen. And I certainly wouldn't spend time on ATS arguing about them, as I have done before.

Peace.

I see what you're saying and I agree. The formula is in place as the first 6 years of the Bush administration. Total control of all the aspects of the government. Here's hoping the GOP can take one of the houses in 2010. The lack of checks and balances hurt the country imo.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


well thought out post chap, all I can say is.. if there is a conspiracy, they'll keep us thinking alright.. and you know who is to say some diversions are planned or intentional

I think some are running scared, and its not just the conspiracy theorists anymore..

Peace,


A

Originally posted by intrepid
I see what you're saying and I agree. The formula is in place as the first 6 years of the Bush administration. Total control of all the aspects of the government. Here's hoping the GOP can take one of the houses in 2010. The lack of checks and balances hurt the country imo.

Obama intends the same with our checks and balances at the moment. He really wants to push health care through.

I for one do not trust any man in that position of power. Not one. I will continue to question all his moves and motives.

But I do understand your post BH. Completely.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I know that all these dire predictions can get a bit old.

Though some are based on "insider skinny" we aren't getting the story behind the motivations of those "insiders."

We just don't have the whole story and we somehow have to live with this meanwhile pushing for the whole story to be told.

Of course, the reason for the focus on the President is because the President has various legal powers that others would like to take advantage of. So any president, or any leader in a similar position, becomes the focus of various communications trying to convince or order him to do this, that,or the other thing. Different Presidents have had different responses to these communications. If the responses are too unacceptable then you get a JFK.

We should realize that even though certain groups have succeeded in consolidating their control in certain sectors, we do not have a scene in which a single group is calling all the shots according to their particular set agenda. If we did, everything would be "calm and peaceful." It is more or less obvious that there are several groups with different agendas vying for control in sectors that aren't totally nailed down yet. This seems particularly true in the sector - if you can call it that - known as "the military-industrial complex." And that is a powerful sector. And it has, apparently, developed at least three different sources of financial support: banks, governments, and crime. If one financial source fails, it is always possible that it can be replaced by a different source. So this sector enjoys a certain independence of action. And I think that certain factions within it may be the reason why the "doomsday" agendas, assuming they exist, continue to be forestalled.

In the end, the fate of the planet may rely quite heavily on individual initiative. It is a potent factor in life that cannot be overlooked. It could be the initiative of a President or it could be the action of someone who may never become known to us by name or title. The least we can do is to stay as well-informed as possible.


[edit on 2-9-2009 by l_e_cox]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Well put.

I feel the same way about Obama as I felt about Dubya... except it was much easier to tell when Dubya was BSing, because he's not too bright. Obama is a little scarier to me, just because he is more intelligent and more eloquent.

Personally, I think of the president as more of a spokesperson rather than a decision-maker. I don't worry about who's in what party... I am concerned though about who's partying and just playing the politics game.

I generally see what Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are saying, to try and figure out what's really going on down there in DC... I don't really trust them either, but they seem to be more honest than most.

People definitely get too excited about things. My concerns are more about us as a society and our personal ideology/philosophy... if we can't change ourselves and progress as a society, we can't expect progressive change to come in the form of legislation.

Guess I think society evolves and gov't has to evolve in accordance with it, rather than vice-versa. I'm more afraid of (and for) society than I am afraid of the president.

Anyway... /end ramble

Thanks for the thread. I remember what ATS was like in 2004 or 2005, because my husband used to rant for hours about the impending Darth Cheney doom for America, guaranteed by the general ATS population then.

I guess the difference is Bush is too stupid and not respectable enough to build a cult of personality around.

The TRULY creepy thing about Obama, from day one, is the fact that a cult was built around his FACE.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


There are many things I'm worried about...and it's not just Obama...not by a long shot.

This is what the real problem is...with us.....

Republicans and Conservatives (some not all) defended Bush to the bitter end...not caring about the insidious things that administration did and ignoring the corruption and assault put upon our Constitution. The left was justified in much of it's anger.

The problem is that it's switched. There is massive corruption in the Obama administration and the left ignores it. Not all....but most.

We have to stop the cycle..and the only way that's going to happen is for Democrats or Republicans to abandon support for their respective parties...or for whomever is President...whether it be Obama...or anyone else...to have their respective parties abandon them.

I think I know what is wrong with this country. It's nothing a fair/flat tax can fix. It's nothing universal health care can fix. It's nothing that raising taxes on the rich 10 fold will fix.

Bottom line is that we need campaign finance reform and a massive REVISION or a REPEAL of NAFTA.

Without this....it won't matter. Government will stay corrupted and the American people will continue to get poorer.

I just wish people would quit trying to save face because they were fooled...or because they feel an argument against "the party" is an attack on them personally....to which they ignore any misgivings that their party does.

I see it all over ATS...I used to be one of them. I won't do it anymore. I've been called all kinds of things since I first started posting here.

I've been called a Neo-con, a racist, a liberal, a progressive, an independent, and a conservative.

Yes...i've managed to be labeled in almost all tiers of the political spectrum because I've decided to leave no stone unturned.

If we want a better country...we've all got to start doing it.

Otherwise it's all a waste of time and things will keep getting worse until..one day....this country will be a shadow of it's former self.

Do it for the kids.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Republicans and Conservatives (some not all) defended Bush to the bitter end...not caring about the insidious things that administration did and ignoring the corruption and assault put upon our Constitution. The left was justified in much of it's anger.

The problem is that it's switched. There is massive corruption in the Obama administration and the left ignores it. Not all....but most.

We have to stop the cycle..and the only way that's going to happen is for Democrats or Republicans to abandon support for their respective parties...or for whomever is President...whether it be Obama...or anyone else...to have their respective parties abandon them.



Bottom line is that we need campaign finance reform and a massive REVISION or a REPEAL of NAFTA.

Without this....it won't matter. Government will stay corrupted and the American people will continue to get poorer.

I just wish people would quit trying to save face because they were fooled...or because they feel an argument against "the party" is an attack on them personally....to which they ignore any misgivings that their party does.


I've been called a Neo-con, a racist, a liberal, a progressive, an independent, and a conservative.


If we want a better country...we've all got to start doing it.

Otherwise it's all a waste of time and things will keep getting worse until..one day....this country will be a shadow of it's former self.

Do it for the kids.

AH you forgot SOCIALIST yesterday

I agree D, it is finance reform, NAFTA and sadly the boarders need to be closed so we can clean house.

The problem is how do we solve anything when the core of peoples ideas
are "conservative" or "liberal", literally.

I say, make healthcare NON FOR PROFIT (like you suggested once)

it would fix the pricing, get rid of the profit motive, etc...

But then people say "you are punishing the successful people, or I don't want the government in my business"...

I say " WTF do you want then"?????????????????????????????????????????????

at that point communication breaks down

How can WE solve anything?





[edit on 3-9-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 3-9-2009 by mental modulator]

For some reaon, people tend to take a very "psychological" approach to presidential politcs. Its almost like they revert to childhood and consider these people mommies or daddies who can magically solve any problem, or perhaps consider the issue from the perspective of a handful of grubby cavemen selecting the "leader of the hunt" who gets to eat the sabre-tooth tiger's heart. Perhaps something is ingrained in us about the way we view leaders.

To my mind, this is no longer very valuable and in fact its downright dangerous. To get at the real meat of the matter, its not Obama or Bush, both of whom were sock-puppets for TPTB. Its "THE SYSTEM." You need to start studying the different aspects of THE SYSTEM: the Miliary-industrial complex, the banking cabal that controls the Fed, the way politicians are bought and sold by lobbyiests, and so on. This is the wider picture. It is obsure and complex and to get even an incling of how it works takes many patient hours of investigation...and even then doubts ensure.

Far easier, I guess, to take a "lightning rod" single individual and use these primitave concepts of "leadership" to blame everything on whoever happens to be sitting in the oval office at the moment. But this really is a very mistaken and distorted view of things. THe president has a certain amount of power, but his hands are increasingly tied by big industry, big pharma, big agriculture, military contractors, bankers, foreign creditors, and so on...look to these power blocs. THey are the real "men behind the curtain."

These are some REALLY great posts! Thank you!

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
The TRULY creepy thing about Obama, from day one, is the fact that a cult was built around his FACE.

I think more accurately, the "cult" (I don't use that word for this particular situation) was built around what his face represented in his campaign: Hope and Change. Some people were able to make that mean whatever they wanted it to mean... whatever they were in love with. Put a blue swirly ball out there and call it Bertha and convince people that it's exactly what they want, and they'll buy it, without even thinking about the fine print. Especially when things are so bad.

And let me also state that some of us were not mesmerized, did not "fall in love", DID read the fine print, and realized all along that what we were seeing was the game of politics in full swing.

Originally posted by silent thunder
Far easier, I guess, to take a "lightning rod" single individual and use these primitave concepts of "leadership" to blame everything on whoever happens to be sitting in the oval office at the moment. But this really is a very mistaken and distorted view of things. THe president has a certain amount of power, but his hands are increasingly tied by big industry, big pharma, big agriculture, military contractors, bankers, foreign creditors, and so on...look to these power blocs. THey are the real "men behind the curtain."

I love this paragraph so much! The lightening rod analogy, the president's hands being tied .... Your whole post is really great!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
I think the argument that just because your fears regarding Bush didn't come true that our fears regarding Obama must be just as unfounded is a fundamentally flawed argument.

Just because Bush, or even Clinton, Bush I, Reagan and all of the presidents before them didn't do the things we fear Obama is and will do does not mean that he won't. None of the leaders of Germany killed 6 million Jews before Hitler did, but that didn't mean that he wouldn't.

Furthermore, those on the left (a group of which I am assuming you fall into) have always held irrational fears of republicans in power. GWB is not the first president that you guys thought was evil and was going to bring the world into its worst war ever and commit all these other horrible acts. You guys believed the same things about Nixon, Reagan and others. The difference is that the majority of us on the right have never had these kinds of fears about a democratic president, at least not on this level. Sure there have always been those lunatics on the right wing fringe who feared the worst about Clinton and especially Carter, but never has it been on this level. What I'm trying to say is that this isn't the same situation as it has been in the past. This isn't the left fearing Bush or the right fearing Clinton. This is Americans of all political parties, races, religions, classes and so on, fearing the worst in Obama.

So to simply dismiss it as the same paranoia that you and others felt about Bush is not only a flawed argument (for the reasons I listed and MANY more), but also a dangerous one. This is not a time when we should be complacent and simply assume that it is business as usual. President Obama has already made plenty of alarming moves with regards to our future, and promises to do more. He has the media in his pocket like no president before him and he has a significant portion of the population willing to let him do whatever he thinks is best because of their blind faith in him. I want everyone to fear the worst in Obama because it will help to keep him in line. It will help to elect more opposition to the House and Senate and bring back a balance of power to this country.

This is nothing like the liberal fear mongering of the Bush era. This threat to our democracy and our way of life is quite real. You need only take Obama at his word to see that. The things he has done and the things he has stated he intends to do are alarming at the very least. These are not wacky conspiracy theories, but rather the simple truth.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I think the argument that just because your fears regarding Bush didn't come true that our fears regarding Obama must be just as unfounded is a fundamentally flawed argument.

I'm not suggesting that they MUST be unfounded, I'm suggesting that people open their minds to the possibility that they MIGHT be unfounded. I remember how sure I was that the election of 2006 and then 2008 wouldn't even happen. And I was positive that Obama wouldn't win because of another election fiasco. But I was wrong on both counts.

Furthermore, those on the left (a group of which I am assuming you fall into)

If you call someone who has never been a member of a political party and has voted for Republican, Democrat and Independent candidates, staunchly supports the second amendment, wants illegal immigrants to be punished under the law, supported Bush after 9/11, believes in capitalism, supports a strong national defense, someone on "the left", then OK.

The difference is that the majority of us on the right have never had these kinds of fears about a democratic president, at least not on this level.

Could it not be that an escalation in partisan politics and the MSM's role in increasing the divide, is playing an important role in the increase of distrust and suspicion?

This is nothing like the liberal fear mongering of the Bush era.

I totally disagree. It's EXACTLY like it.

When Obama is filling his government with known Socialist and actively supporting communist or socialist dictators that we have been fighting for the last 60 years then yes Obama will pull off everything we have feared for the last 9 years. He will at least try.

The only way to stop him is a revolution, Even that will only cut off some of the country from him. Prayer on a massive scale may save us all.

reply to post by David9176


All Free Trade Agreements need to be eliminated!!!!

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


All I can say is Transparency and Accountibility. Once we have convinced our leaders that we desire/demand transparency and accountibility in government, perhaps there would be less paranoia amongst the serfs. Just a thought.

Obama/Bush... talking heads with little power in the grand scheme of things.Obama even less so as atleast bush had his powerful daddy on his side.I fall into the trap sometimes of saying this or that about what Obama will do...but in the end it's not him and imo you don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to understand that huge corporations,the military industrial complex and the central bank dictate the fundamental policies of America.Don't blame Obama...except maybe for not growing a pair and standing up to the real movers and shakers.Guess he doesn't want to end up six foot under.Can't blame him.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


BH, I understand where you are coming from, completely.

Unfortunately, there is too much divisiveness among the people, red verses blue, Democrat verses Republican, Conservative verses Liberal, which all ties back to divide and conquer mentality in that people are easily distracted from what is really going on so easily because if someone says something contrary to their particular party politics, they get on the defensive very quickly.

This is where I step into this particular area, because I am neither red or blue, neither Democrat nor Republican, neither Conservative nor Liberal, and I see both sides of the citizens being played against themselves by those in power because they do not see that the politician's have one thing in mind, gaining and retaining power.

Political Blame Game Ideology : It's Your Fault

Too many people in America want to blame the other guy or gal on the other side of the political aisle from them, or from the other side of their political parties aisle, and not realize that when they sit down and do nothing, instead of stand up and do something, they are in fact the blame.

I have railed against Bush, but guess what, I railed against Clinton too, and as well the elder Bush, and now against Obama, because the way I see it the politician's are bought and sold as a commodity through lobbying firms and big business to serve the industry and not the people, meanwhile they are showing a sham to the people that they actually care about you and me, and the rest of America when in fact they do not.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

Do I think you were pushed into your motivations by party affiliation, BH?

That is not for me to say, nor will I try to do so.

The way I see it is that not enough American's know how to spot a distracting shiny bauble being dangled in front of them, hypnotizing them, whether it is something they want or whether it is something they detest, and instead people are so easily lead into speak first, think second.

I am a thinker, who asks questions, who investigates, and I thoroughly know something I speak about before saying something about someone or something.

Government is something I know, and through that knowledge I have come to understand that just like the Roman's with the Colliseum, that America is easily distracted from what the politician's are doing because of their self-interest in Monday Night Football instead of paying attention to C-Span that when someone comes along and speaks of change and hope they just leap on that bandwagon, regardless of its direction of travel, and find up way too late that it is in fact taking them right to the F.E.M.A. Detainee Camps because of their poor choice of thought, words, and actions.

Political Collusion of a President and Congress in Collapsing America, The Fall of the New Rome

I tried to tell many people I saw Bush collapsing the economy with Congress in collusion, however where I was mistaken was the fact that Bush was not going to end up finishing it off, instead it was a two-part strategy and to me, Obama was the man who stepped in to clean up the mess after his predecessor and I believe this was intentional misdirection on the part of Capitol Hill.

It was instead a concentrated effort of the people in power to come together and rob the piggy bank through the Bailout as a means to swipe all of the tax money.

The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve


[edit on 3-9-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by mental modulator

I agree D, it is finance reform, NAFTA and sadly the boarders need to be closed so we can clean house.

I absolutely agree. Another thing we can do about illegal immigration....actually ENFORCE laws that make it unable for corporations to hire people who are not legal citizens. If they cannot work here...then many of them won't come here. I don't want to close the borders...but sadly it will have to be done...both north and south. The coasts need to be protected as well...and not just for illegals....we need to protect our country..actually protect it! I know...it's a crazy thought!

I say, make healthcare NON FOR PROFIT (like you suggested once)

I'd love for this to happen. I really do. The chances of it happening are probably zero...that is until we do the stated above. It takes government out of the equation...only to enforce that people abide by non profit laws. Also....health care will be more affordable. We have to find a way to get healthcare available for all legal citizens or prices will continue to rise.

All i see Republicans state is that we need Tort Reform. Well wtf....how in the hell is that going to fix anything? It's amazing. They want the one thing that enables CEO's and stock holders to fill their coffers EVEN MORE. Yes, there are stupid lawsuits that shouldn't be done...but those are everywhere in every area of our country!

But then people say "you are punishing the successful people, or I don't want the government in my business"... I say " WTF do you want then"?????????????????????????????????????????????

This is what we need to ask people. Where is all the money? Most families are in debt...without jobs.

Someone has to have the money...so who has it?

STock holders, CEO's, and banks.

Who runs and controls the media? Corporations. I heard a great speech from FDR today. If I can find it...I"m going to make a thread for it.

It was really good.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
BH, I understand where you are coming from, completely.

I know you do. And thanks.

Do I think you were pushed into your motivations by party affiliation, BH?

I don't see how you could as I am not now, nor have I ever been affiliated with a political party. I, too, criticized Clinton, Bush Sr., and Reagan and Nixon and even as far back as Johnson (I'm old) And I criticize Obama. But only for things they've DONE, not for a fantasy of what they might do. I only did that with GW Bush.

The way I see it is that not enough American's know how to spot a distracting shiny bauble being dangled in front of them, hypnotizing them, whether it is something they want or whether it is something they detest, and instead people are so easily lead into speak first, think second.

Very well said! Thanks for your post.