So. Im killing myself to keep Your kids Healthy?

SEAN MUSSENDEN MEDIA GENERAL NEWS SERVICE
Published: February 5, 2009

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama signed legislation yesterday to more than double the federal cigarette tax to pay for an expansion of health insurance for poor children.

Tobacco companies hurt by declining smoking rates expect the 62-cent increase -- to $1.01 per pack -- to further reduce cigarette sales after it takes effect April 1.

The major tax increase on cigarettes, smokeless tobacco and cigars will fund a $32.8 billion expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program, providing coverage to an additional 4.1 million children.

"In a decent society, there are certain obligations that are not subject to tradeoffs or negotiation -- health care for our children is one of those obligations," Obama said at a signing ceremony at the White House.

It's not yet clear how hard the tax increase will hit tobacco companies.

Fitch Ratings, a bond-rating firm, said it expects a 4 percent to 7 percent drop in cigarette sales this year.

David Sutton, spokesman for Philip Morris USA in Richmond, said it was difficult to say how the tax increase would affect the company's bottom line.

Tommy Payne, spokesman for Reynolds American Inc., a tobacco company in Winston-Salem, N.C., said the company expects industrywide volume declines of 6 percent to 8 percent.

The federal increase comes after a series of cigarette-tax increases by dozens of states during the past five years. The trend has driven up cigarette prices and is expected to continue.

So far this year, 16 states -- including Virginia -- have considered legislation to increase cigarette taxes, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. On Tuesday, the Virginia Senate's Finance Committee rejected Gov. Timothy M. Kaine's proposal to double the tax to 60 cents per pack.

Increases are expected this year in states that historically have opposed raising cigarette taxes, including South Carolina, which has the nation's lowest state cigarette tax of 7 cents per pack, and Mississippi, third-lowest at 18 cents per pack.

Richard Cauchi, health program director for the conference of state legislatures, said it's difficult to say how many of those proposed increases will pass.

In 2007, tobacco-tax increases passed in 11 states. Last year, 20 states debated increases, but only two passed. They were unusually large -- a $1 increase in Massachusetts and $1.25 in New York. At $2.75 a pack, New York has the country's highest cigarette taxes.

Two factors have the potential to spark another wave of tax increases this year, tobacco analysts said. The prolonged economic downturn has created budget deficits in nearly every state. Lawmakers generally face less resistance to increasing "sin taxes" than income taxes or sales taxes paid by everyone.

Job losses have swelled the ranks of the uninsured, and cigarette taxes often are pegged to pay for expansions of government health-insurance programs.

Well, maybe instead of fake coughing at me the next time im smoking outside, 100 ft. from the door, you should instead thank me for little timmy's insulin. I already pay taxes, I shouldnt have to pay more for makingthe decision to kill myself slowly.

Originally posted by ChameleonCircuit
SEAN MUSSENDEN MEDIA GENERAL NEWS SERVICE
Published: February 5, 2009

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama signed legislation yesterday to more than double the federal cigarette tax to pay for an expansion of health insurance for poor children.

Tobacco companies hurt by declining smoking rates expect the 62-cent increase -- to $1.01 per pack -- to further reduce cigarette sales after it takes effect April 1.

The major tax increase on cigarettes, smokeless tobacco and cigars will fund a $32.8 billion expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program, providing coverage to an additional 4.1 million children.

"In a decent society, there are certain obligations that are not subject to tradeoffs or negotiation -- health care for our children is one of those obligations," Obama said at a signing ceremony at the White House.

It's not yet clear how hard the tax increase will hit tobacco companies.

Fitch Ratings, a bond-rating firm, said it expects a 4 percent to 7 percent drop in cigarette sales this year.

David Sutton, spokesman for Philip Morris USA in Richmond, said it was difficult to say how the tax increase would affect the company's bottom line.

Tommy Payne, spokesman for Reynolds American Inc., a tobacco company in Winston-Salem, N.C., said the company expects industrywide volume declines of 6 percent to 8 percent.

The federal increase comes after a series of cigarette-tax increases by dozens of states during the past five years. The trend has driven up cigarette prices and is expected to continue.

So far this year, 16 states -- including Virginia -- have considered legislation to increase cigarette taxes, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. On Tuesday, the Virginia Senate's Finance Committee rejected Gov. Timothy M. Kaine's proposal to double the tax to 60 cents per pack.

Increases are expected this year in states that historically have opposed raising cigarette taxes, including South Carolina, which has the nation's lowest state cigarette tax of 7 cents per pack, and Mississippi, third-lowest at 18 cents per pack.

Richard Cauchi, health program director for the conference of state legislatures, said it's difficult to say how many of those proposed increases will pass.

In 2007, tobacco-tax increases passed in 11 states. Last year, 20 states debated increases, but only two passed. They were unusually large -- a $1 increase in Massachusetts and $1.25 in New York. At $2.75 a pack, New York has the country's highest cigarette taxes.

Two factors have the potential to spark another wave of tax increases this year, tobacco analysts said. The prolonged economic downturn has created budget deficits in nearly every state. Lawmakers generally face less resistance to increasing "sin taxes" than income taxes or sales taxes paid by everyone.

Job losses have swelled the ranks of the uninsured, and cigarette taxes often are pegged to pay for expansions of government health-insurance programs.

Well, maybe instead of fake coughing at me the next time im smoking outside, 100 ft. from the door, you should instead thank me for little timmy's insulin. I already pay taxes, I shouldnt have to pay more for makingthe decision to kill myself slowly.

pack of bogies cost like $9 in arizona already, so yeah, basically you're right.

Granted, I don't agree with sin taxes.

I'm not faking the allergies I have to the fumes you may not realize are wafting my way. I've had several upper resp. infections because I couldn't avoid being around it.

thanks for keeping up the sterotypical jaded ATS smoker image i have in my head.

reply to post by winotka


Where are you that you can't avoid cigarette smoke? I don't mean to come off as unsympathetic - I am. i have 2 sons with asthma. But really where is it that you are forced to breathe it?

there's also people who rely on tobacco for income, say farmers and small stores. it's gonna hurt their incomes as well.

This last tax hike was the last straw for me. I've had it with the unfair taxation on smokers and just to let them know I mean it, I quit smoking. They're not getting another dime from me

Star and flag

reply to post by ChameleonCircuit


Welcome to the 21st century - I wont pay for your medical bills either.

What is it that makes your society, the transaction at the shop, or the shop, the shop attendant, where the shop is, the fact you have shops. Thats right capitalism is the transaction , thats it, the rest is social - society. If you don't like shops, people and society - go live in the woods.

The State of Iowa, where i live, put a state ban on smoking in public last year. But you can smoke in your car, in your home, and at CASINOS.... Of course you can smoke in places where the state will lose money if people stop going, but the small bars, and such, I mean it should be the businesses choice to be smoke free or not, its rediculous. And I dont see why i have to pay for kids who i will never meet to get braces, when i work 60 or more hours a week and cant afford my own insurance.

reply to post by ChameleonCircuit


I noticed that Toys For Tots is collecting donations now. At the local convenience store they ask me if I wanted to give a dollar for Toys For Tots. With a full lobby I said "NO, f-em, they get enough money from the smokers." Every unpopular tax raise, and law is always twisted to be 'for the kids'. It's time the people stood up against those things and say 'screw the kids, screw you, and screw the horse you rode in on'.

Resist! Say 'NO, we will not put up with it anymore!"

Why don't they just make drugs and prostitution legal, tax the heck out of it and clear out the jails at the same time. We could all get free health care then.

OOPS sorry I forgot drug money is the cops slush fund. According to "Drug Enforcement's Double Edged Sword:" Cops wait until most of the drugs are sold and then confiscate the cash. As one cop said they already have a room full of drugs, they rather have the cash.

"Civil asset forfeiture has allowed police to view all of America as some giant national K-Mart, where prices are not just lower, but non-existent — a sort of law enforcement 'pick-and-don't-pay.'" —U.S. Representative Henry Hyde,


Most forfeiture cases are never contested, in part because contesting the proceedings can cost more than the value of what's been confiscated. "The average vehicle siezed is worth about $4,000," states FEAR president Brenda Grantland, Esq. "To defend a case, especially when you're out of state, they've pretty much made it cost prohibitive." Under civil asset forfeiture laws, the simple possession of cash, with no drugs or other contraband, can be considered evidence of criminal activity.


"Findings suggest asset forfeiture is a dysfunctional policy. Forfeiture programs, while serving to generate income, prompt drug enforcement to serve functions that are inherently contradictory and often at odds with the demands of justice."
—Mitchell Miller & Lance H. Selva,


Jared Shoemaker examines the negative impact on law enforcement goals and practices when police agencies aggressively pursue civil asset forfeitures as a means of supplementing their budgets, as well as how police agencies' addiction to forfeiture revenue leads to disregard for individual due process rights, sometimes with tragic and life-altering consequences for innocent individuals.


"Even if you're a law-abiding citizen who's never been convicted of a crime, local police are allowed to confiscate your property and money and keep up to 80 percent of it for themselves, with the legal stipulation that this windfall be spent only on programs likely to result in additional confiscations where the police can keep up to 80 percent of the booty for themselves," wrote Jennifer Abel in an October, 2007
www.fear.org...

At least with the Cigarette Tax you know about it and can choose.

Welcome to the world of the UK, first they hit your ciggies and when folk get used to it (the complaining wont stop), then they'll go after the motorists!

[edit on 1-9-2009 by yeebsy]

The truely rediculous thing about it all is the as much as the govornment screams to STOP SMOKING, and warn people of its hazards. They really just want you to continue smoking, and hope for new generations of smokers, because there is a lot of money to be made. Its all about the cash, not peoples health.

On anouther note: Is it sad, or when you guys see one of those stop smoking ads on tv, does it make you want to smoke more? It does me, I light up like right away.

I only wish I could pay twice the Federal Tax on a pack of Kreteks that I smoke, but I can't because after Obama signed HR 1256 into law back in June, I can't buy Kreteks in the United States anymore as they, and any other cigarette flavored with anything other than Menthol, is now illegal.

I'd take usury taxation over banning any day. Alas, I don't have a choice in the matter and have to either resort to a life of crime smuggling to get my fix or abide the law in bitter contempt.

So, count yourself lucky (or should that be "Count your Lucky Strikes") if you still can smoke and have to pay out the nose for it. Some of us in the United States are denied that privilege and choice.

quit your crying people, your tears fuel them. i for one, will never quit smoking, i'm going to smoke til the day i die...which won't be long. and those of you who get infection from cigarette smokes, what are you doing still alive? we're trying to keep all the good human trait in our gene pool, these traits include: resistance to BS allergies, sensitive to everything and anything. please refrain from reproducing if you are allergic to smoke, you children will not live to reproduce due to premature deaths.

Originally posted by winotka
Granted, I don't agree with sin taxes.

I'm not faking the allergies I have to the fumes you may not realize are wafting my way. I've had several upper resp. infections because I couldn't avoid being around it.

My nose closes down completely when there is tobacco smoke around me or even residue (like visiting a "smoking home"). I grew up around it and it was terrible. Constant headaches, nausea, chronic sinusitis...terrible. I avoid restaurants with smoking sections because even if I am in the same building it is that acute, I simply can't breathe.

I had smoker's asthma from my parents and always just thought I had asthma. When I went to underground I found otherwise and went to an allergist. Sure enough, I'm highly allergic.

Smokers tend to believe that people like us are whiners, making it up, etc. They think if they do it outside then we shouldn't care. I get the diesel and car fumes argument, too.

I feel bad for their addiction, but I feel worse that myself and others without it have to suffer. I literally was on inhalers for no real reason as a child. I was limited with my physical activity and it just didn't have to be that way.

Smokers have the choice and right to smoke in their own home. Go crazy, but other people have rights too and you act like we do not. It is not an inconvenience to me. An overload of perfume is an inconvenience, but having to use an inhaler that I don't need so that my nose and lungs don't seize is abominable.

Why can't you just smoke at home? No one is denying you that privilege. Pot smokers do it all the time.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by A Fortiori]

That bill was where I learned to hate the man I had just voted for. I have said since that it took me four years to learn to hate Bush; I learned to hate Obama in three weeks.

There is already a small but growing underground tobacco market. This will only make it bigger, increasing the crime rates as people are forced into back alleys to get a puff of nicotine. It harms not the wealthy, but the poor. Didn't Obama swear he wouldn't raise taxes on the poor or the middle class? I'd say he just blew that little promise out the window! My Federal tax increase on bagged tobacco was almost 3000%! My price went up 150%! That's like a six-pack going form $5 to $12.50 overnight, people!

My God, think about it! Do you hate me that much, can you hate someone you have never met (and probably never will) so much that you want them to suffer terribly financially, for no other reason than I like something you don't? I don't drink any more either. I still don't begrudge someone a beer, or even a night of drunken ecstasy from time to time.

You don't pay my medical bills. I do. I'm the one who pays the insurance premiums. I'm the guy who gets the bills. I'm the one who signs the checks. You do not. Pay your own way; I'm paying mine. And I'll bet good cash my medical bills for my entire family are less than yours alone.

I will not quit smoking. I already roll my own, and hopefully next year I can start growing my own tobacco. Yes, it's legal to do so as long as it is for personal use (which it would be). I figure 75 plants will provide me with well over a year's supply. Now I have to build a fenced area for it. Deer loooove tobacco!

This way, not only do I get to smoke for almost free, but the tobacco is pure and the tobacco companies and the government make zero - zip - zilch off me.

Someone is gonna say they will make growing your own tobacco illegal. I say bring it on; this is the home of bootlegging and unmentionable (on ATS) farming practices anyway.

reply to post by A Fortiori

Smokers tend to believe that people like us are whiners, making it up, etc. They think if they do it outside then we shouldn't care. I get the diesel and car fumes argument, too.

No, I don't think you are 'making it up'. I think you're sick.

Has anyone ever thought about the fact that today, at least half of the people I know suffer from some ill effect due to being around cigarette smoke? This compared to 30 years ago when almost no one ever had a problem with it. Why?

I think it's from two reasons: First, children are not being exposed to cigarette smoke. The human immune system can handle pretty much anything when it's operating efficiently, but it doesn't know instinctively what to do until it encounters a contaminant. If a child is exposed to at least low levels of the most common contaminants at an early age, the resulting adult will generally not be affected by that contaminant.

In other words, by going to great lengths to protect your children from minor issues, you are making those minor issues into major ones in later life. You are depriving the child (and later, the adult) of the opportunity to be allergy-free and healthy later in life.

Secondly, I believe a lot of the problem is actually psychosomatic. Yes, it's real, but it's caused by an illusion. Why do I say this? because I have had so many people start coughing and wheezing before I lit up. I will sometimes put the cigarette in my mouth a good 15 minutes before I light it up, especially if I am concentrating heavily on something. news flash: it produces no 'second-hand smoke' until it is lit.

Go ahead and flame me if you want about how insensitive I am. I really do care that you are having problems. If I didn't care, then I wouldn't be telling you this. It would be a lot easier to just nod and agree with your 'illness'.

Maybe, just maybe, the ones who don't care might be the ones who talked you into having the problem.

TheRedneck


[edit on 9/1/2009 by TheRedneck]

reply to post by A Fortiori


M'kay.

I really really hate to get defensive about cigarettes, but looks like im gonna have to.

Ok, Those of you that have grown up in homes that your parents have smoked and smoke caused you ill health problems, that would be your parents fault, they are the ones to blame, my parents were respectful enough to smoke outside when i was a kid.
I feel terribly sorry for anyone that is allergic to cigarette smoke, I really do, but just as you have the right to use styrofoam cups and drive your car, i have as much right to put toxic gasses out into the air.
If it wasnt illegal to smoke pot, people would smoke it out in public just like cigarettes ( so that is a really really bad comment).

And I will give you some...yes some people are allergic to smoke. I worked in a hotel that had smoking rooms, and people would take them because they had nowhere else to go. Then when they got here, they would try and scam me ( i mean literally hundreds of people) over the course of the year, to move them to a nonsmoking room which we were out of, or upgrade them at no cost because they were "allergic" to smoke. Then they would file a complaint with our corporate offices saying we did not accomidate them with thier "illness" and we get in trouble because THEY booked a SMOKING room, and then tried to get out of it.

So on a final note, there are those out there that arent respectful of others. I myself stand away from entrances to buildings, i dont smoke indoors, even in my own home. So those of us that do our best not to infringe on your rights, deserve the same from you.

reply to post by ChameleonCircuit


Just a technicality-

Styrofoam no longer contains CFCs.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


The Commonwealth of VA still has smoking sections in restaurants. My post was mainly that I don't agree with how tobacco is taxed, so I don't understand how you mean by not avoiding and being forced to breathe secondhand smoke.

I don't eat out very often anyway, because I also don't agree with how servers make less than $3 an hour and try to make up the rest with "serving", but that's another topic.

Still paying under $5 in CaliforniA