Who do you think was the greatest general of all time?

We haven't met him yet.

We will soon though.

General Robert E. Lee, 1807 - 1870 Commander, Army of Northern Virginia, Confederate States of America.

Robert Edward Lee was born on January 19, 1807, at "Stratford" in Westmoreland County, Virginia. He was the fifth child born to Henry "Light-Horse Harry" Lee and his second wife, Ann Hill (Carter) Lee. He grew up in an area where George Washington was still a living memory. Robert had many ties to Revolutionary War heroes.

Educated in the Alexandria, Virginia, schools, he obtained appointment to West Point in 1825. In 1829, Robert E. Lee graduated second in the class without a single demerit against his name. He was commissioned a brevet 2nd Lieutenant of Engineers.

On June 30, 1831, he married Mary Ann Randolph Custis. They had seven children. All three of their sons served in the Confederate army. George Washington Custis and William Henry Fitzhugh ("Rooney") attained the rank of Major General and Robert E. Lee, Jr., that of Captain. The latter served as a private in the Rockbridge Artillery at the Battle of Antietam.

During the Mexican War, Robert E. Lee was promoted to Colonel due to his gallantry and distinguished conduct in performing vital scouting missions.

In 1852, he became Superintendent of the Military Academy. In 1855, Secretary of War Jefferson Davis transferred Lee from staff to line and was commissioned Lieutenant Colonel 2nd Cavalry. He was then sent to West Texas, where he served from 1857-1861. In February of 1861, General Winfield Scott recalled Lee from Texas when the lower South seceded from the Union.

Politically, Robert E. Lee was a Whig. Ironically, he was attached strongly to the Union and to the Constitution. He entertained no special sympathy for slavery.

When Virginia withdrew from the Union, Lee resigned his commission rather than assist in suppressing the insurrection. His resignation was two days following the offer of Chief of Command of U.S. forces under Scott. He then proceeded to Richmond to become Commander-in-Chief of the military and naval forces of Virginia. When these forces joined Confederate services, he was appointed Brig. Gen. in the Regular Confederate States.

Lee returned to Richmond in March of 1862 to become military advisor to President Davis. Whenever he had a plan, General Lee took the initiative and acted at once. Cutting off supplies and reinforcements executed by Jackson at Seven Pines was a successful Confederate venture. He also stopped McClellan's threat to Richmond during the Seven Days Battle (June 26-July 2, 1861). At the Battle of Second Manassas, Lee defeated Pope. At the Battle of Antietam, his Northern thrust was checked by McClellan; however, he repulsed Burnside at Fredericksburg in December of 1862. In May of 1863, Gen. Lee defeated Gen. Hooker at Chancellorsville, but was forced onto the strategic defensive after Gettysburg in July. On April 9, 1865, Lee surrendered to Ulysses S. Grant at the village of Appomattox Court House.

After the surrender, Lee returned to Richmond. He assumed the presidency of Washington College (now Washington and Lee University). His example of conduct for thousands of ex-Confederates made him a legend even before his death on October 12, 1870. General Robert E. Lee is buried at Lexington, Virginia.

www.americancivilwar.com...

Greatest General that ever stood on a battlefield. My Great, Great Grandfather served under Lee. He died at Gettysburg, at a place they call "Devil's Den" just below Little Round Top.

On the 28th of July, 1932, Patton and MacArthur massacred American veterans on American soil because they were peacefully assembled and asking for a redress of grievances.

This utter disrespect for the constitution didn't seem to hurt their careers.

Geronimo (Chiricahua: Goyaałé, "one who yawns"; often spelled Goyathlay or Goyahkla[1] in English) (June 16, 1829 – February 17, 1909) was a prominent Native American leader and medicine man of the Chiricahua Apache who fought against Mexico and the United States and their expansion into Apache tribal lands for several decades.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by METACOMET



General Mitchell and Hoover were responsible for that...


You Sir...are an arse.

reply to post by happygolucky

Then you shouldn't have a problem pointing out where my statement is factually incorrect.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by autowrench


I just saw a documentary on Sun Tzu and if the stuff they say about Lee is even half true then as a general that guy was a waste of space.
Being a history channel documentary though it could all be a load of fecies. If anyone can confirm that he gave unclear orders etc. then I'd appreciate it.

My best guess while growing up was General Mills.

Still very well known and popular today. Been around since around 1866.

www.generalmills.com...

Napoleon.

Napoleon was essentially the Chuck Norris of France. After waging war against all of the major powers of Europe, and usually winning, Napoleon was finally defeated when his killing curse rebounded off the infant Harry Potter. Er, wait, no, that's not right... He was finally defeated by the Sixth Coalition, and exiled to the island of Elba. Eventually, he was able to return to power through the use of his horcruxes. Wait... no, that's not right again. He returned to power after escaping exile, and ruled over France for another 111 days until a climactic final duel with Harry Potter. No, no I've got stories crossed again. He ruled until the climactic Battle of Waterloo, at which point the Order of the Phoenix... Oh, let's face it, Napoleon was Lord Voldemort.

Fact: After his defeat by the Sixth Coalition, Napoleon attempted and failed to commit suicide by poisoning himself. That's right: Napoleon was so awesome that not even Napoleon could kill Napoleon.

Edit to add: It's interesting to note that Napoleon was so incredibly tough, he used up France's entire supply of toughness. Forever. He dug deep down into the well of all the remaining toughness that would ever be allotted to the entire country until the end of time, and swallowed it all in one giant bite.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by mattifikation]

Patton was getting better and almost fully recovered when he
died under suspicious circumstances.

Any one have anything on that.



[edit on 9/1/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

New Book:

The newly unearthed diaries of a colourful assassin for the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the CIA, reveal that American spy chiefs wanted Patton dead because he was threatening to expose allied collusion with the Russians that cost American lives. The death of General Patton in December 1945, is one of the enduring mysteries of the war era. Although he had suffered serious injuries in a car crash in Manheim, he was thought to be recovering and was on the verge of flying home. But after a decade-long investigation, military historian Robert Wilcox claims that OSS head General "Wild Bill" Donovan ordered a highly decorated marksman called Douglas Bazata to silence Patton, who gloried in the nickname "Old Blood and Guts". His book, "Target Patton", contains interviews with Mr Bazata, who died in 1999, and extracts from his diaries, detailing how he staged the car crash by getting a troop truck to plough into Patton's Cadillac and then shot the general with a low-velocity projectile, which broke his neck while his fellow passengers escaped without a scratch. Mr Bazata also suggested that when Patton began to recover from his injuries, US officials turned a blind eye as agents of the NKVD, the forerunner of the KGB, poisoned the general. Mr Wilcox told The Sunday Telegraph that when he spoke to Mr Bazata: "He was struggling with himself, all these killings he had done. He confessed to me that he had caused the accident, that he was ordered to do so by Wild Bill Donovan.

Getting too close to UFO secrets.
ED: Died because he was a critic of the war with Russia or
from exposing the greatest science that mankind still does not know.


[edit on 9/1/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

reply to post by mattifikation


Napolean? Tough? The guy lost around 350,000 troops, (and thats of 400,000) in his attempt to invade russia. While he was incredibly tough, as you say, he was not a great general.

Edit to add: Let's also not forget that his own soldiers decided mutiny was better than following him anymore. All of Europe considered him the SINGLE roadblock to peace.

[edit on 9/1/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

reply to post by iamjesusphish


Each era has its greatest General Alexander did the Impossible for his time.
So I believe that makes him the all time Greatest.
Julius Ceaser and his merciless campaigns against the Germans and Franks
makes him one of the West Most vicious.
Gehgis Khan created empire the likes no one has seen before or since.
Napolean Bonaparte certainly was a revolutionary giant step.
It will Be interesting to see who is remembered among American Generals a century from now. McCarther, Patton, Ridgeway, Franks, Abrams, McCrystal
Pershing, Schwarzkopf so many fine War Generals that help mode the Mega Power that the US Army has become.

Originally posted by tempesillest

Originally posted by AceOfAces
General George Washington.

Far before the time of political greed and corruption this man represented part of our freedom by fighting against the british and supporting America in its beginning.

We owe this man everything because we're it not for him, we'd have no freedom.

Ironic that now we're once again coming to a point where our freedom is again threatened.

George Washington is easily the best general. Now for those of you who don't think George was ever appointed the rank of General. He was honored and given the title of General of the Armies of the United States (posthumously in 1976).

[edit on 8/30/2009 by AceOfAces]

Yes and George Washington was the only 5 star general, which makes him the greatest general by default

. But anyways he was seriously a good guy and the only reason I served in the military was to honor the bravery of our American founding fathers

Generals of the Army(5 star):
George C. Marshall; Douglas MacArthur; Dwight D. Eisenhower; Henry H. Arnold and Omar N. Bradley

So anyway, as far as the best general ever, it really is a tough choice, but as long as they treat their soldiers well and live up to the rank bestowed upon them, then they are a great general officer in my book.

Georgy Zhukov ,
had it been not for him the world would have been speaking German

reply to post by iamjesusphish


Ill play Erwin Rommel is considered to have been a chivalrous and humane officer, in contrast with many other figures of Nazi Germany, and his Afrikakorps was not accused of any war crimes. Soldiers captured during his Africa campaign were reported to have been largely treated humanely; furthermore, he ignored orders to kill captured Jewish soldiers and civilians out of hand in all theaters of his command.


As far as bravery Rommel joined the conspiracy against Adolf Hitler, but opposed the failed 20 July Plot of 1944 to kill the dictator. Because of his great prestige, Hitler allowed him to commit suicide. He was buried with full military honors, but the reason for his death only emerged at the Nuremberg Trials.

His campaign in North Africa earned Rommel the nickname "The Desert Fox." On 6 February 1941 Rommel was ordered to lead the Afrika Korps,Got to admit its a great nickname.

Rommel was in his lifetime extraordinarily well known not only by the German people but also by his adversaries. Popular stories of his chivalry and tactical prowess earned him the respect of many opponents, including Claude Auchinleck, Winston Churchill, George S. Patton, and Bernard Montgomery (who named a dog after him). Rommel, for his part, was complimentary towards and respectful of his foes.

The Afrika Korps were never accused of any war crimes, and Rommel himself referred to the fighting in North Africa as Krieg ohne Hass—war without hate. Numerous examples exist of Rommel's chivalry towards Allied POWs, such as his defiance of Hitler's infamous Commando Order following the capture of Lt. Roy Woodridge and Lt. George Lane as part of Operation Fortitude, as well as his refusal to comply with an order from Hitler to execute Jewish POWs. During Rommel's time in France, Hitler ordered him to deport the Jews in France; Rommel disobeyed the order. Several times he wrote letters protesting the treatment of the Jews. When British Major Geoffrey Keyes was killed during a failed commando raid to kill or capture Rommel behind German lines, Rommel ordered him buried with full military honours. Also, during the construction of the Atlantic Wall, Rommel directed that French workers were not to be used as slaves but were to be paid for their labour.

General Vo Nguyen Giap.

He not only beat the French, he harassed and outlasted the most powerful military the world has ever seen.

It's true that he was supplied well by the Soviets, and our rules of engagement were often self defeating. I believe we could have done much more damage to North Vietnam than we did. We could have bombed the red river dikes. We could have gone nuclear. We could have but we didn't. Leaving right and wrong out of the equation, we did not have the political will to do what was necessary to win.

General Giap used the unpopularity of war beautifully....first against France, and then the U.S.

He was a great tactician and was extremely savvy politically. IMHO he is definitely one of the greatest generals ever if not the greatest simply by virtue of who he fought in war.


Dragonrider, I have to agree with you about Rommel. He was an intelligent and humane human being as well as a great general, as you said. He knew it was wiser to rule the civilians in an occupied land by gaining their respect, as opposed to the "iron fist", a technique that only inspires gorilla type actions to grow exponentially.

I think one of the most horrible things about war is the fact that good and decent human beings are on both sides. I hope man lives on Earth long enough for a day to come when the military forces of two nations about to fight tell their respective leaders to go piss up a rope and lay down their weapons.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Aircow]

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Aircow]

Personally Sun Tzu and his book the Art of War makes him the greatest general that ever existed. If you have two generals on a field of battle with one knowing the Art of War and the other doesn't the one with the knowledge will win every time, if they follow the teachings.

Some of the finest Generals in history knew and put into practice the Art of War and were victorious. Qin Shi Huang the first Emperor of China, later the book had great influence among the Samurai of Japan including Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and Tokugawa Ieyasu. Napoleon also was greatly influenced by this work and used its principles conquering Europe, but when he invaded Russia he did not follow it's teachings. Mao Zedong also followed the teachings in the Art of War and gave credit in his writings about guerrilla warfare tactics. Tōgō Heihachirō also was a avid reader and followed its teaching in his victory over Russia in the Russo-Japanese War. Gen Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr. use the teachings against Iraq using speed, deception and attacking the enemies weakness for yet another victory credited to this one book.

This book by Tzu is still very relevant today as it was when it first was written, its used in business, sports and of course in the military. It is in my opinion a key to success.

Some phrases from the Art of War you might be familiar with are:

Know the enemy,

Know yourself,

And victory

Is never in doubt,

Not in a hundred battles


Ultimate excellence lies

Not in winning every battle

But in defeating the enemy

Without ever fighting


The Way of War is

A Way of Deception


simple English version Art of War

reply to post by RyanLA123


The strategies of Sun Tsu are far from being obsolete. Consider this excerpt from the very beginning of that seminal text:

Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.

The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth; (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.

The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

Heaven signifies night and day, cold and heat, times and seasons.

Earth comprises distances, great and small; danger and security; open round and narrow passes; the chances of life and death.

The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

By method and discipline are to be understood the marshaling of the army in its proper subdivisions, the graduations of rank among the officers, the maintenance of roads by which supplies may reach the army, and the
control of military expenditure.

These five heads should be familiar to every general: he who knows them will be victorious; he who knows them not will fail.

Therefore, in your deliberations, when seeking to determine the military conditions, let them be made the basis of a comparison, in this wise:--

(1) Which of the two sovereigns is imbued with the Moral law?
(2) Which of the two generals has most ability?
(3) With whom lie the advantages derived from Heaven and Earth?
(4) On which side is discipline most rigorously enforced?
(5) Which army is stronger?
(6) On which side are officers and men more highly trained?
(7) In which army is there the greater constancy both in reward and punishment?

By means of these seven considerations I can forecast victory or defeat.

(Translation by Lionel Giles 1910)

This bold assertion made by Sun Tsu that the forecast of victory or defeat can be determined by following the above strategy can be used to consider the current problems the U.S. are facing in Afghanistan. First, it is worth noting that this conflict in Afghanistan is termed a "war on terror" and is being fought not just militarily but by political and non military tactics as well. Since "terrorism" can be concluded to be a tactic used in either war or peacetime, it gives credence to Sun Tsu's assertion that:

"peace and war are difficult to distinguish from each other and are part of the same ongoing conflict."

Furthermore, there has been a dangerous reliance upon so called "counterinsurgency" experts for this war who reveal a tragic ignorance to Sun Tsu's strategies and worse still an ignorance to the moral fiber, will and geographical advantage the insurgency enjoys. Historically, conflicts in the nation of Afghanistan forged by foreign nations have been a loosing proposition and this historical context should have been considered greatly when the U.S. was forming their own strategy before invading Afghanistan.

It was perhaps a foolish and naive strategy to assume that the U.S. could place such emphasis on the imperative to protect the indigenous population while separating them from the insurgency, believing they could or can "win their hearts and minds" through nation building. Such a belief seems to ignore Sun Tsu's own imperative that states:

"Strategy without tactics is the slow road to victory... tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."

Part of strategy is understanding the inherent problems that come with invading another country. There was much evidence prior to invading Afghanistan that suggested that this nation was rife with internal problems such as tribal conflict, bitter regional disputes, corruption, and dysfunctional national boundaries. Given these obvious problems what intelligence was used to suggest that the U.S. could affect nation building at the point of a gun? The insistence on holding this strategy only seems to guarantee a long and protracted war fighting the insurgents. What does Sun Tsu say about fighting protracted wars?

"What is essential in war is victory, not prolonged operations."

Sun Tsu also said:

"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities... It is best to win without fighting."

The rush to invade Afghanistan was made by politicians intent on showing their own public that something was being done in the matter of the "war on terror" at the expense of the military and any sound strategy. The comparisons to Vietnam, while mired in many historical and geographical inconsistencies, is fair enough when it comes to the realization that the conflict in Afghanistan has become a long and protracted battle with no seeming end in sight. More reliance on the wisdom of Sun Tzu rather than embracing the hubris that his wisdom does not apply in modern warfare might have been prudent and beneficial in the U.S. decision to invade Afghanistan.

General Smedley Darlington Butler

We should all pray that there are more like him.