Why is civil debate impossible on ATS?

reply to post by nixie_nox


i agree..it is very easy to talk about nothing, and much harder to make sense of nothing

Although, it is not the complexity of any mind or any points being made that is paramount, but, its the validity of the statements , otherwise what use can they be


A

[edit on 31-8-2009 by 7redorbs]

When I first joined this forum, people were more respectful of other's opinions, and if there was disagreement, it was polite and respectful. Posters were much more mature, etc. Now, it is worse than elementary school. Now, if I make a post, I can expect rude arguing, name-calliing. It's so immature! Grow up, people!

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I have a "feeling" that since we can't see each others faces, hear the tone of voice nor interpret body language of posters, we use other means at our disposal for making points. Literally and figuratively.

If some of these conversations happened in real life, somebody would be walking away with a bloody nose, or worse.

So, look on the bright side! No physical harm can come by communicating this way. Unless of course, it is self-inflicted.

Hi! In the Southern USA its manners first. If you don't have manners you might as well move away, people will ignore you and black ball you right out of the community. Manners first. If you haven't said Hello! How are you? You aren't starting off correctly. People wave to one another from their cars and let other people go in front of them while driving. When I go back to my relatives, I realize how rude other parts of the USA can be. I lived near Washington DC a long time ago, they are the rudest most impatient people on the planet, and this is our country's capital? I don't think we are well liked in other countries. The NY cities airports are rude and filthy. Both Newark and JFK are awful.
It just makes life so much nicer if everyone takes the time to consider how their words might hurt someone else's feelings. If you don't have your health and your manners what else matters? Money? It doesn't like you back.

reply to post by frugal


That is so true, frugal! I grew up in the South, also, where people had manners. It has been difficult to deal with rude people. If they said those terrible things where I grew up, they would have been kicked out of town.

Originally posted by jam321
Instead of an exchange of ideas, and civilized debate of an issue or idea, it becomes a "I'm right, and your an idiot for not thinking my way" battle that is about as productive as shaving with a hamburger.

Autowrench:
Yes, this is so right. The problem here is that some people have Ideas,and other people have Beliefs.
Ideas can always be changed, when new informations comes into the database we call the mind, new ideas can also be incorporated into older ideas. Beliefs, on the other hand, are generally Set In Stone and will never change, no matter what. I'm certain you have all noticed the thread replies that contain only Bible quotes. I am also certain you have noticed threads that are derailed and discredited by the same people each and every time.
Some member's handles even give them away! (no names here)
IMHO there are two ways of thinking. The first is Linear thinking, the second is
Multi-Dimensional thinking. We all think in a linear manner at first, it is the accumulation of knowledge and the wisdom to think with an open mind that changes it.
For me it began with the study of the "Occult," or that which is beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding, or of the realm of the mysterious and supernatural world.

Have you ever demeaned someone for what they have expressed?

Autowrench:
Yes, sadly, I have done this. Now I make every attempt to allow anyone's opinion, but reserve the right to question them openly. There are many people in this forum who are young and inexperienced in forum posting, some cannot spell English well, and some are just waking up, and beginning to search. It is up to all of us older members to guide and help, for is it a time of togetherness. I am in the process of writing a post on this right now. We are all in the together.

I personally try to remember that my way isn't always the correct way. I have had people call me or my thoughts blind, stupid, idiot/idiotic among other terms. When this happens, I have two options. Option 1 is to take the high road and ignore them or option 2 is to get down on their level.

I prefer option 1. I honestly believe that even if two people disagree they can still be respectful toward one another.

Autowrench:
Me too, the High Road is always the best road. I am used to being called nuts/crazy/mental/off meds/antichrist/devil worshipper/beast. I have heard it for so long, not only on the net, but in personal life. Words are just that, words. they are not rocks thrown at you, nor are they arrows that pierce your skin. They are just words, after all.

Excellent thread.

And let me say that I am in absolute 100% agreement with you.

Some time ago some one started a post about the death of ATS. Whenever I see rediculous posts or silly threads I always post in them and add at the bottom,

"and this is why ATS is dead or dying"

Why is it that you can't have an opposing view and not be ridiculed for it. You should be allowed to present your side - whichever side it may be and not be subjected to name calling and such....

But......I just don't think it's gonna happen!

Civility is dead. I came to ATS when told it was a different kind of site.But it really is no better or no worse then others. Since anonymity is the norm for the web people will say things they would never say to someone in person. It's the reason I no longer comment in forums unless I find it extremely compelling. The easiest thing to do is criticize. The hardest thing to do is come up with solutions. All I see on this website and others is a lot of complaining and whining. Maybe if we got off our computers and began organizing we could accomplish something. I can't blame TPTB for doing what they do. Criminals will get away with what you let them. I blame my fellow citizens for accepting criminality as the status quo.

I'd say ego, fear, and arrogance. Many people can't see beyond that nice neat little prepackaged box that their universe inhabits. If anything comes from outside the box, it threatens the security their "understanding" gives them. If someone threatens that box, some may be up for the experience of being exposed to an "alien" world... and some may lash out furiously.

In politics, everyone is convinced they know what they're talking about. They're convinced they know the right choices in a world of gray. Very few stop to consider that everyone can be wrong and that we need to start from scratch. Then people let their emotions blind them to the fact that they're being used. (Both Democrats and Republicans)

When it comes to UFO's, it's a bit different. On one hand, it makes total sense for life to exist somewhere else in the universe. There are more planets in the universe than we can even begin to imagine. So the odds of life, then intelligent life, then intelligent life that's a lot smarter than us with space ships... the odds aren't bad. But then there are the frauds, the hoaxers, and the crazies who believe their own lies. Everyone is grasping at straws. Things are labeled as evidence for or against, even when they don't prove anything. Sometimes they don't even have anything to do with the topic. Then, the government using claims of UFO's to hide their aircraft testing has blurred the lines even more. Aliens, time travelers, inter-dimensional travelers, or a massive hoax used by the military to hide it's activities... We don't truly know.

You want to know why?
Here's a short and sweet explanation.

ANYONE can access ATS.

That's why.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

It seems that almost any thread you participate in here inevitably spirals down the drain into a hate soaked, name calling, spite filled fight. Instead of an exchange of ideas, and civilized debate of an issue or idea, it becomes a "I'm right, and your an idiot for not thinking my way" battle that is about as productive as shaving with a hamburger. It's the major reason that I find myself leaving this site for periods of time, as I feel like I'm losing IQ points by reading and posting here at times.

When I first started posting here...I often fell victim to the name calling when getting into heated arguments. I've tried hard to not to do that anymore...and for the most part I seem to get along with most people here.

There have been a few times where I have gotten nasty...and it's usually been because of hard partisans on ATS who have been posting ridiculous threads that have nothing but the sole purpose of inciting argument. I've called them out...both sides. I had enough the other day and got a post deleted for violating the T & C and I knew I was doing it and even stated so within the post itself. Sometimes people deserve it and after seeing the same BS posted by the same people OVER and OVER again.....it get's to me sometimes because I feel it's a problem we all have in this country and it keeps us divided.

S/F

[edit on 31-8-2009 by David9176]

[edit on 31-8-2009 by David9176]

Originally posted by autowrench
Yes, this is so right. The problem here is that some people have Ideas,and other people have Beliefs.
Ideas can always be changed, when new informations comes into the database we call the mind, new ideas can also be incorporated into older ideas. Beliefs, on the other hand, are generally Set In Stone and will never change, no matter what.

I agree, very well put, it's pretty much that simple...

DemonicAngelZero also mentioned the one thing that I believe is an underlying cause, emotions. If one grows too attached to an idea OR belief, they are "hurt" when logic or whatever proves that premise wrong. The longer they have accepted this idea/belief, the quicker they are to go into denial mode and lash out.

As others stated, I'm guilty at times as well, but I at least try to relay neutrality and respect. If I feel I need to preface a post I make on the Politics/911 forum with a disclaimer stating I have no party affiliation, I do it.

Im for everyone stating their opinions and ideas, but some take it to

the extreme, they get angry and start swearing and name calling,

can you not get your views accross and be civil at the same time?

a reply to: karishma36

lulz

stop bumping old threads ya idiot

easiest way to spot a spammer

i knew to check the last page and sure enough

i was right

althoguht I guess I could order a few brides since you did go through all the trouble of linking it....

very nais, how much?



oh btw, kill yourself.

a reply to: karishma36

You suppose to spam different threads, not the same thread right after you spam it...

Jesus dude is someone paying you cuz I'd fire your dumb ass for that # right there.

Maybe I should show you how to do it you #ing n00b.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: karishma36

You suppose to spam different threads, not the same thread right after you spam it...

Jesus dude is someone paying you cuz I'd fire your dumb ass for that # right there.

Maybe I should show you how to do it you #ing n00b.

How civil of you...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

He should feel bad, and ashamed.

SHAAAAAME!

used to be the only thing that was allowed then a bunch of idiots came along and ruined it