Independent Investigation Into Pentagon Attack Yields Alarming Information

Originally posted by tezzajw
mmiichael, last night (my time) you promised to supply me with the names and email addresses of all the people standing on the Pentagon lawn, who saw the light pole hit the taxi.

You have so far failed

Total BS on all counts.

I really don't track this nonsense but if I recall the deal was or is - you can get names (on lists which I already provided links for) as soon as I get names of people who saw lamp poles being uprooted between 9:36 and 9:37 on Sept 11, 2001.

The poles standing were along the highway, then they were on the ground. How did they get 'down there? How come none of the hundred of drivers on a busy highway noticed such an unusual activity taking place withing a minute of the Pentagon explosion - which I'm told wasn't there?

8 years now, the world is waiting for the "Alarming Information" the "Independent Investigation" has uncovered.




[edit on 9-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
You can even phone or email some of the people who were in front of the Pentagon that day.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Supply me with a list of the people who saw the light pole hit the taxi and I'll email them. I'm sure that Craig will also be interested in speaking with those people as well. You have claimed those people were there, so let's see you supply us with a list of their contact details. You claimed those people were there, so the burden of proof is upon you to find them.

Originally posted by mmiichael
You'll get get it as soon as you supply me with a list of people who observed crane operators pull the poles out of the ground.

Originally posted by tezzajw
mmiichael, last night (my time) you promised to supply me with the names and email addresses of all the people standing on the Pentagon lawn, who saw the light pole hit the taxi

Originally posted by mmiichael
Total BS on all counts... if I recall the deal was or is - you can get names (on lists which I already provided links for) as soon as I get names of people who saw lamp poles being uprooted between 9:36 and 9:37 on Sept 11, 2001.

Once more, casual readers, we witness the destruction of logic by mmiichael.

He suggested that I should phone or email the people in front of the Pentagon. I asked him how many people standing in front of the Pentagon saw the light pole hit the taxi. mmiichael has not responded with any names or any email addresses.

Furthermore, mmiichael has thrown out an off-topic red-herring condition about people seeing cranes? Why? Is he that unable to prove his own claims that he needs to create a distraction from them?

mmiichael:
Why did you offer to supply me with names and email address based upon a red-herring?

Why did you request me to phone or email the people in front of the Pentagon, when you won't supply me with their contact details? You claim they were there, so the burden of proof is upon you to support your claim.

The only name that you have given me has been McGraw. We all watched as you failed to correctly quote McGraw. At least you admitted your error.

When will you be supplying me with the list of names?

So far, you have failed to support your claim that the light pole hit the taxi.

Originally posted by tezzajw

When will you be supplying me with the list of names?

So far, you have failed to support your claim that the light pole hit the taxi.

My Limited Liability Investigation Team has narrowed it down to 3 possibilities

1) light pole knocked down by American Airlines Flight 77 as it approached the Pentagon

2) unseen crew of secret agents waiting in the bushes at the exact spot for paid off confederate Lloyde England to stop his taxi, have his windshield smashed while the cranes and crew pulled up lamp poles

3) divine intervention from the Virgin Mary

Originally posted by mmiichael
light pole knocked down by American Airlines Flight 77 as it approached the Pentagon

You have not proven that this happened, mmiichael.

How many people were in front of the Pentagon and saw the light pole hit the taxi? When will you be supplying me with their names and emails?

When will you be supplying me with the names of the thousands (hundreds?) of people who you claim saw the plane depart? You've yet to supply me with one name. If you need more time, let me know. Until them, you've defaulted to option four, where you are doing nothing and inventing numbers to bolster your argument.

When will you supply me with the forensic report for the light pole or the taxi? You claimed that the incident was forensically investigated, but you have failed to prove it.

Originally posted by tezzajw

When will you be supplying me ...

You've yet to supply me with one name ...

When will you supply me ...

You actually believe you can just assume authority in this discussion.

When will you supply the thread with information or opinion on what smashed the windshield?

You were provided 3 possibilities

1) Flight A77 knocking over a lamp pole

2) hidden secret agents

3) Virgin Mary

Back up your choice with corroborating evidence.

Originally posted by mmiichael
When will you supply the thread with information or opinion on what smashed the windshield?

Multiple times now, mmiichael, I have told you that I do not know what happened to the taxi. Yet, you still fail to acknowledge this.

You have claimed that the light pole hit the taxi but you have consistently failed to prove it. Now, it seems you have entered into a new phase where you are trying to divert from your claims with other nonsense.

I'm still waiting for you to let me know how many of the people standing in front of the Pentagon saw the light pole hit the taxi. I'm waiting for their names and email addresses.

Originally posted by tezzajw
I have told you that I do not know what happened to the taxi.

So how do you dare cast doubt on the testimony of people who were actually there when it happened?

Some people who saw Flight 77 approaching and/or crashing into the Pentagon (hasty edit for brevity):

www.criticalthrash.com...

Donald "Tim" Timmerman, a 36 year old resident of Eppington Drive, to the south of the Pentagon across Interstate 395, is a navy pilot and a photographer. " I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible.


Christopher Munsey, Navy Times reporter , was en route to work ". . I couldn’t believe what I was now seeing to my right: A silver, twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon, just hundreds of yards away. The plane, with red and blue markings, hurtled by and within moments exploded in a ground-shaking “whoomp,”


John O’Keefe, 25-year-old Northern Virginia commuter, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying was "not much more than a football field away ... this silver plane; I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet ... It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading.


Joel Sucherman, USAToday.com Multimedia Editor, saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. “The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. A silver jet with the markings along the windows that spoke to me as an American Airlines jet, it was not a commercial, excuse me, a business jet, it was not a Lear jet, it was a bigger plane than that."


Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. "It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane"


A woman driver wanting to exit from Interstate 395 saw "a commercial plane that came in and was coming too fast and too low and the next thing we saw was it go down below the side of the road and we just saw the fire"


Brig. Gen. Clyde A. Vaughn, deputy director of military support to civil authorities was returning to the Pentagon Sept. 11 returned urgently from a meeting, north along Interstate 395 . While exiting the ramp to the Pentagon "There wasn't anything in the air, except for one airplane, and it looked like it was loitering over Georgetown, in a high, left-hand bank"


Mark Bright, was the first security officer to arrive at the scene, having actually seen the plane hit the building while manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance. "I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area ... I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down."


Alan Wallace, a 55 year old Fort Myer firefighter was standing with fellow firefighter Mark Skipper, about 200 feet away from the catastrophe, standing outside their fire station. They both suffered first and second degree burns. "I just happened to look up and see the plane. It was about 200 yards away, and was coming in low and fast. I told Mark that we needed to get the hell out of there."

Captain Lincoln Liebner, was parking his car at the moment of attack: 'I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low"


Alfred S. Regnery, president and publisher of Regnery Publishing, Inc., a sister company of Human Events saw ". . a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead."


Mike Walter, 46, USA Today reporter, said "I was sitting in the northbound on 27 and the traffic was, you know, typical rush-hour -- it had ground to a standstill. I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up, it's really low.'


Sergeant Maurice L. Bease had worked around Marine aviation long enough to know what a fly-by was, and it sounded like one as he stood outside his office near the Pentagon on Sept. 11. Turning around expecting to see a fighter jet fly over, he saw only a split-second glimpse of a white commercial airliner streaking low toward the building, and him!
(Report by Maj Fred H. Allison, USMCR (Ret))


Afework Hagos, 26, of Arlington, is a computer programmer, a consultant for Nextel. On his way to work he was stuck in a traffic jam on Columbia Pike, near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in."
He saw a plane flying very low and close to nearby buildings. "I thought something was coming down on me. I know this plane is going to crash. I've never seen a plane like this so low." He said he looked at it and saw American Airline insignia and when it made impact with the Pentagon initially he saw smoke, then flames.


Dave Winslow, AP Radio Reporter lives across the street. He saw "the tail of a large airliner "


Eugenio Hernandez, an AP video journalist, was driving by the Pentagon and saw the plane crashing. He borrowed a tourist's video camera began shooting.


Christine Peterson, ’73 found herself in the thick of last month’s terrorist
tragedy, and submitted this report: "I looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane flying so low I said, “holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car” (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing."


Fred Gaskins, was driving to his job as a national editor at USA TODAY near the Pentagon when the plane passed about 150 feet overhead. "(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious
target, It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint that
anything was wrong."


Kirk Milburn, a construction supervisor for Atlantis Co. was on the Arlington National Cemetery exit of Interstate 395. "I was right underneath the plane. I heard a plane. I saw it. I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles. It was like a WHOOOSH whoosh, then there was fire and smoke, then I heard a second explosion."


Steve Patterson, is a graphics artist who works at home.in a 14th-floor apartment in Pentagon City. While watching events unfold on TV he saw a silver commuter jet fly past his window about 150 yards away, approaching from the west about 20 feet off the ground "at a frightening rate ... just slicing into that building." He saw bright orange flames shoot out the back of the building.


Allen Cleveland of Woodbridge Virginia looked out from a Metro train going to National Airport, to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. "I thought, 'There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,' " Before he could process that thought, he saw "a huge mushroom cloud. The lady next to me was in absolute hysterics ... a silver passenger jet, mid sized"

[edit on 9-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
So how do you dare cast doubt on the testimony of people who were actually there when it happened?

Donald "Tim" Timmerman... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Christopher Munsey... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
John O’Keefe... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Joel Sucherman... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Omar Campo... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
A woman driver... did not see the taxi. Not even confirmed by name, is this the depths that you're resorting to, mmiichael???
Brig. Gen. Clyde A. Vaughn... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Mark Bright... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Alan Wallace... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Captain Lincoln Liebner... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Alfred S. Regnery... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Mike Walter... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Sergeant Maurice L. Bease...did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Afework Hagos... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Dave Winslow... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Eugenio Hernandez... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Christine Peterson... did not see the light pole hit the taxi. Did any one follow up with her to ask which numbers were printed under the wing?
Fred Gaskins... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Kirk Milburn... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Steve Patterson... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.
Allen Cleveland... did not see the light pole hit the taxi.

How did any of those witnesses help you prove your claim that the light pole hit the taxi when none of them saw it happen?

The only witness that you have tried to use was McGraw. Of course, you admitted your complete failure when you utterly screwed up his testimony and tried to claim things that he never stated.

How many people do you allege were standing in front of the Pentagon, who saw the light pole hit the taxi? When can I expect their names and email addresses?

When will you be supplying the names and contact details for the thousands (hundreds?) of people who you allege saw the plane depart?

[edit on 9-11-2009 by tezzajw]

reply to post by tezzajw


I, too, am awaiting the alarming information that will show that the mainstream press has it all wrong. The only thing that is alarming is that some people are buying into the Monty Python fly-over skit. The plane obviously knocked over the light poles. To help you study this aspect, no one saw anything else knocking over the light poles as the plane flew over. If you have evidence to the contrary, please bring it forward.

As to your not knowing anything, I recommend that you go back to your studies and return when you have something to discuss. Try looking up "cause and effect" and see if you can think up any other plausible version for any points being discussed on the thread.
You might also draft a supporting paragraph or two for your statement to me in keeping with your standards of "evidence."

The casual reader will note member tezza(??) has failed ... failed I tell ya
to provide any information on the Pentagon attacks and that very important broken taxi windshield.

His constant demand for the names of witnesses who saw the lamp pole hit the taxi windshield, something that happened in a second just before an airline crashed into the Pentagon, is a tired desperate trick of Truthers. Isolate trivia not fully documented and convince yourself this means all the significant evidence of the plane attack are somehow unreal.

But after 8 years with zero substantiation of an alternative explanation of what happened that day that is consistent with reliable witness testimony and tons of debris including mangled bodies we have a default winner story. And member tezza(??) has admits he can offer no other. He has conceded the awful lying Official Story must be true in absence of one to counter it.

So it appears the "Alarming Information" that the "Independent Investigation"
has yielded is what wa know Day 1, that a group of Arabs hijacked passenger planes on Sept 11, 2001 and flew them into the WTC and the Pentagon.

If anyone reading this has any information that can alter this conclusion people would like to hear about it.

I'm outta here now. Feeding trolls is bad for your mental health.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
He has concede the terrible awful lying Official Story must be true in absence of anything to counter it.

This irrational logic is repeated many times on this forum.

Your assumptions, speculation, and preconceived notions are not evidence.

No alternative theory is required to point out a lack of evidence...

Just because something is the "Official Story' doesn't mean it is automatically true until proven false by alternative theory...

No alternative theory is required to point out a lack of evidence...

No one here has an explanation for your lack of evidence...

Originally posted by Jezus


No alternative theory is required to point out a lack of evidence...

No one here has an explanation for your lack of evidence...

But that approach is likely to lead you into serious problems.

Take the following example: The actor Ewan McGregor has just walked into my office. Now provide me with evidence that this isn't true. If you can't then I am obliged to conclude that it must be.

Originally posted by pteridine
The plane obviously knocked over the light poles.

You have failed to prove this. Stating it does not prove it. Your obvious inability to logically grasp this has been noted throughout the thread.

You tried to use McGraw as a witness and completely failed, when you falsely attributed words to him that he did not say.

Originally posted by mmiichael
The casual reader will note member tezza(??) has failed ... failed I tell ya
to provide any information on the Pentagon attacks and that very important broken taxi windshield.

Casual readers can note that it is not encumbant upon me to offer any theory about the Pentagon. I was not assigned an investigative role for the incident.

mmiichael has been told this fact numerous times through the thread and he has failed to understand it.

Originally posted by mmiichael
His constant demand for the names of witnesses who saw the lamp pole hit the taxi windshield, something that happened in a second just before an airline crashed into the Pentagon, is a tired desperate trick of Truthers.

The trick used by some official government story believers is to claim that there were witnesses - and then to refuse to supply their details!

Take mmiichael, for instance. In this thread he tried to offer McGraw as a light pole hitting the taxi witness. After being shown how he was completely wrong, mmiichael was forced to admit that he stuffed up McGraw's testimony.

mmiichael has stated that he will supply names and emails of other witnesses, but has failed to do so.

mmiichael has claimed that there were thousands (hundreds?) of witnesses who saw the flight depart - but he has not supplied one name to support this claim.

Originally posted by mmiichael
And member tezza(??) has admits he can offer no other.

It is not encaumbant upon me to offer another theory. I was not hired to investigate the incident and I am not in full possession of the evidence or facts.

Originally posted by mmiichael
He has conceded the awful lying Official Story must be true in absence of one to counter it.

Your failure to quote me here will be your admission that this is an untrue statement. I have never stated this and never will. mmiichael, the depths you plunge when it's all too much for you... amazing.

Your utter failure to prove your theory highlights your shortcomings. It does not reflect upon me in any way at all.

reply to post by tezzajw


Take Tezza for example. He has made a statement and refuses to back it up. This is an example of his double standard. He has failed to do what he demands of others and is a sad example of someone searching for the truth.

reply to post by pteridine

How is your post on topic to the thread, pteridine? Your post was solely about me, which makes it off topic.

Where do you mention anything about the incidents at the Pentagon, as reported by CIT?

You have yet to prove your theory that the light pole hit the taxi. You confused McGraw's testimony, which proved how poorly researched you are about your own theory.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by tezzajw
reply to post by pteridine

 

Your post was solely about me, which makes it off topic.

You have yet to prove your theory that the light pole hit the taxi. You confused McGraw's testimony, which proved how poorly researched you are about your own theory.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by tezzajw]

I see that cause and effect has no meaning for you and that you secretly enjoy being the topic of posts, even if that topic is "off."
I say that given the location of the taxi and the plane striking the light poles, there is no other explanation for the event. How would this effect the overall plane strike on the Pentagon, anyway? Of course, it wouldn't. It is just another red-herring discussion topic for you to troll on about.
As to your lack of support for the one declarative statement you did make, this double standard is telling. If I didn't understand your psychology so well, I would suspect you were a disinformation agent.
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you do not meet your own standards?

Originally posted by pteridine
I see that cause and effect has no meaning for you and that you secretly enjoy being the topic of posts, even if that topic is "off."

Pointless and off topic speculation.

Originally posted by pteridine
I say that given the location of the taxi and the plane striking the light poles, there is no other explanation for the event.

Yet you have consistently failed to prove that it happened. You tried, with McGraw, but your failure there was obvious to all when you misquoted him.

Originally posted by pteridine
How would this effect the overall plane strike on the Pentagon, anyway?

Think about it and get back to me with your findings.

The rest of your post is off topic and not worth responding to, as usual.

reply to post by tezzajw


I have watched your argumentation with a certain bewilderment. For a long time I believed that the official story was untrue - in this case I conisdered that this could have been a missile....

However, watching your intransigeint 'Prove it, prove it, prove it' stance dancing like a monkey on a chain, and reading the more balanced views I'm starting to wonder.

As has been stated by a more balanced view - numerous witnesses, flight data, reports (yeah I know - give me each of their their telephone numbers, birthdays, addresses, dining habits.....ad infinitum...) it points more towards a plane hitting the Pentagon and unfortunately, your repettivie and boring tirades do little to pursuade me otherwise. Conversely they make me start to think
h how closed minded some truthers can be....

As has been stated - why for once don't you do something positive and prove your point rather than boring people to death with what you think is logic?

Peace!

[edit on 10-11-2009 by The Wave]

reply to post by tezzajw


Sorry, forgot - Mmichael provided a long list of witnesses who saw a plane. By your own 'method' of argumentation please provide a list of people who saw the CIA, FBI, Men in Black or whoever remove the lamposts and stage the 'accident?'

I mean it - you ignore anyhting that doesn't fit your view but provide precious little to substantiate your claims.

Peace!