Creationists, what is your case for proving creationism?

Originally posted by TruthParadox
If it's faith based, then it's a belief without evidence.

Which is my point. The OP is asking for the impossible. Obviously when it comes to faith you can't provide scientific proof of Gods existence. What we Christians have is a book that we believe is the word of God. What science has is a theory.

Anyway I accept the possibility that God can work through science too.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by TruthParadox
If it's faith based, then it's a belief without evidence.

Which is my point. The OP is asking for the impossible. Obviously when it comes to faith you can't provide scientific proof of Gods existence. What we Christians have is a book that we believe is the word of God. What science has is a theory.

Anyway I accept the possibility that God can work through science too.

The OP is asking for evidence to support Creationism/ID. Creationists fight to get this subject covered in school. If Creationism is based on only 'faith', then is shouldn't be in our science classroom.

Originally posted by prestonberryworth
The OP is asking for evidence to support Creationism/ID.

Ok, maybe you can answer the question then.

What evidence would you accept? Please give me examples....

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by prestonberryworth
The OP is asking for evidence to support Creationism/ID.

Ok, maybe you can answer the question then.

What evidence would you accept? Please give me examples....

What I’d like to read: Studies, pier reviewed articles, anything that can show a link from our complex life forms to a creator. Perhaps a message encoded in our DNA, saying “Hi world – from God!”.

What I don’t want to read: Bible passages, circular logic, or the “life is so complex, therefore a God had to make us”.


Here are some examples of some good studies, and facts:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

I could have given you examples that were not evolution based, but considering the bashing evolution has taken on this thread, I wanted to stick up for it a bit. They don't need to be from wikipedia obviously, that just happens to be the first item on my search.




[edit on 3-9-2009 by prestonberryworth]

[edit on 3-9-2009 by prestonberryworth]

Originally posted by prestonberryworth
What I’d like to read: Studies, pier reviewed articles, anything that can show a link from our complex life forms to a creator. Perhaps a message encoded in our DNA, saying “Hi world – from God!”.

No, that wouldn't work or you would have already accepted God because the Bible holds code that predicts the future. You would say the Bible is so large that you could find anything if searched in the right way...similarly a message somehow encoded in our DNA would be seen by you and others in the same way.

Originally posted by prestonberryworth
What I don’t want to read: Bible passages, circular logic, or the “life is so complex, therefore a God had to make us”.

Which brings us back to my original point that there is nothing that could be provided that scientifically proves my Bible based faith.

Originally posted by havok
The only evidence that I can give is the notion that everything is in perfect balance. With outer space, if you look around, there is calm, and chaos.

Harmony. The notion of perfection is evidence enough for me to believe creationism. Look around. Well, look around at nature. It is perfect, down to the smallest neurons, and sub-particles. Everything is controlled by some force, or some energy. Thats the Creator.

Better?

You cannot give a close look to nature and ignore the most beautifully designed parasites and viruses. Or the countries where people die from lack of clean water. Or when animals die because another animal thinks they're tasty. Sometimes the animal hunting an killing is us humans. That's nature as well.

If you credit god with all the beautiful and balanced things, don't you think it is in credibly convenient that you don't give him credit for all the horrible things as well?

-rrr

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by prestonberryworth
The OP is asking for evidence to support Creationism/ID.

Ok, maybe you can answer the question then.

What evidence would you accept? Please give me examples....

Something replicable.

In science, we say that things fall at 32 ft/sec/sec because we've tested them all over. It doesn't matter if you chant, are an atheist, think things move by telekenesis or whatever. We say that penicillin kills some "germs" because we've tested it and it works no matter what your personal belief is, or what handicaps you have, or even if it was given by a robot ala the Schrodinger's Cat problem.

The question would be "how do you know which deity of the millions conceived by humans was responsible and whether it was a single deity or multiple deities?"

The answer has to be inarguable (like "well, just take this ball up to the top of the tower of Piza, drop it, and record when it hits the ground. You'll find it's 32 ft/second/second. Now take it to the top of the Hoover dam and do the same thing. You get the same results.") and repeatable (no matter how many times you drop the darn ball, it falls at the same speed.)

In the case of singular events (like, for instance, a murder or a birth), you have to formulate a chain of events that leads up to it that can be measured by anyone of any faith (anyone with the right instrumentation can find the background radiation of the Big Bang) and can't be explained in any other way (giant sea turtles swimming around the edges of the universe.)

It can't rely on "it's in this book". Books can be argued. Measurements (the number of rings around Saturn, the temperature of the universe, the color spectrum of the sun) are solid proof and don't require any particular mindset.

reply to post by Byrd


I have a basic understanding of what scientific evidence is Byrd....thats why I keep asking what would be acceptable as proof...I'm making the point that there is no reasonable proof that could be provided and I know they can't come up with one single example of what they would accept as proof of my Bible based faith. Again it is my position that scientifically proving my Bible based faith is impossible and asking someone to do so is unreasonable. My faith is not based on science...it's Bible and personal experience based.



[edit on 9/3/2009 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by ChemBreather

 

He sitts there totally baffled and tells the team to turn of the camera and makes an huge post-responce ?

looking up and to the right, looks as if he is thinking about lying.
then decides he can't. he looks way caught off guard to me.
but some people will deny the existence of God, even after he smites them.

Geoge Carlins last concert.he was dead w/in 24 hrs.
RIP George

[edit on 30-8-2009 by randyvs]

wow, you have convinced everyone, that cannot possibly be coincidence, most people don't ever die do they?

-rrr

reply to post by randyvs


Why didn't god smite Hitler and instead choose to smite George Carlin? does the death of 6 million jews not mean much to god? but somebody making fun of him does?

Explain that please.

-rrr

Which brings us back to my original point that there is nothing that could be provided that scientifically proves my Bible based faith.

Does everyone on this thread have ADD? This isn't about your bible, or your faith. It is about Creationism. Creationism wants to be taken seriously as a science so it can be taught in schools. So the OP was asking what kind of evidence is out there for Creationism to be taken seriously in scientific community. Apparently there is none, no surprise to me as I couldn't think of any evidence either. I thought there would probably some really smart creationists out there that could at least come up with something worthy of debate. I thought wrong.

Originally posted by prestonberryworth
Does everyone on this thread have ADD?

Not everyone, just me.

Originally posted by prestonberryworth
So the OP was asking what kind of evidence is out there for Creationism to be taken seriously in scientific community. Apparently there is none, no surprise to me as I couldn't think of any evidence either.

Bingo!

There is no testable scientific proof for Creationism...It's a faith based belief. I'm going to introduce you to the doctor that treats my ADD.

Originally posted by kinglizard
reply to post by Byrd

 

I have a basic understanding of what scientific evidence is Byrd....thats why I keep asking what would be acceptable as proof...I'm making the point that there is no reasonable proof that could be provided and I know they can't come up with one single example of what they would accept as proof of my Bible based faith. Again it is my position that scientifically proving my Bible based faith is impossible and asking someone to do so is unreasonable. My faith is not based on science...it's Bible and personal experience based.



[edit on 9/3/2009 by kinglizard]

Faith by definition is blind belief. It cannot be proven, no one is asking you to prove your belief in the bible, as we know it is impossible. Although personally I find it quite silly admitting you have no reason other then faith to believe in the bible, who cares what I think, this isn't about me.

If you went to a public school and wanted to teach about your bible, you would get throw out. Education tends to frown on subjects without solid evidence to back them up. This thread is about creationism, a topic a lot of scientists, and christians want to get into our public school? So this really does make me wonder what proof we have of this? There has to be something out there with this being such a hot topic.

reply to post by prestonberryworth


Yes my belief is faith and life experience based...you may call the faith portion blind if you wish. I'm very comfortable recognizing that the Bible is my guide.

If you don't want creationism taught in schools exercise your vote....I'll do the same.

I am neither a creationist or an evolutionist. I believe in a muddling of the two. I believe that evolution has taken place, but What happened before the big bang? Scientists theorize that the universe expands to a point and then retracts in on itself into a solid state only to big bang again. The only reasoning behind this theory is to explain what happened before the big bang, they could not come up with that answer so they tweaked the already accepted theory and made it work to their desire. I think that there was something that facilitated the bang. God? Maybe, maybe not, who knows. For all I know I am just a part of a cosmic antfarm that an entity from a non comphrehensible dimension has sitting on his desk.

I am at work so I can't find the necessary sources for the theories.

For some reason I thought of this: www.amitgoswami.org...-228

I think all of life is based on faith- a hope placed on something. difference is, science will generate faith in a belief through research, ideas, logic, tests etc. which they know may be proved false, may be updated, expanded, whereas all religions base their faith off of one book(or a few books/texts) written by MEN experiencing the world at a specific time with a specific mindset.

One poster ( I cant remember, its late, bed is calling, forgive me) earlier mentioned genesis as proof for creationism... lol. sorry but ja. If that, and all texts in the bible, are to be taken as the word of God, he's a little flawed. Why couldn't he be a little more specific on how we got here, or where we are going, eg: revelations. In my own maniacal belief I think God is flawed, I love the guy and all that he is, but if the bible states anything it is that he is not perfect. this is not a perfect world, brown stuff hits the fan and you gotta be quick to dodge it. To save my behind from the wrath of God, man is actually flawed. We search for the physically unnatainable. Spiritually (if your into that) God is in all things, he is the all thing.

Didn't say all I should have, tomorrows another day.I'm done, goodnight sleep tight

zzzzzz

The OP specifically states: As per the title, without referring to the theory of evolution or any religious text, please can you set out your scientific hypothesis, along with the relevant supporting evidence, as to how life on Earth came to be?

Sure wish the "Faith" people would quit clogging up this discussion.

I find this to be a fascinating concept for serious discussion.

Originally posted by Annee
Sure wish the "Faith" people would quit clogging up this discussion.

A conversation is a fluid thing revolving around the stated topic in the OP and other issues dealing directly with the stated topic. Creationism is a topic dealing directly with theology and faith, no two ways around it. So yes we 'faith' people are interested in sharing out opinions too. You are free to ignore them and move forward but please don't try to limit our speech. Thanks...

Hey guys. I just wanted to pop in and say hello. Carry on with your discussions.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Annee
Sure wish the "Faith" people would quit clogging up this discussion.

A conversation is a fluid thing revolving around the stated topic in the OP and other issues dealing directly with the stated topic. Creationism is a topic dealing directly with theology and faith, no two ways around it. So yes we 'faith' people are interested in sharing out opinions too. You are free to ignore them and move forward but please don't try to limit our speech. Thanks...

Of course you can discuss how everything that exists - exists - - without bringing religion into it - - as the OP requested.

I'm sure there have been many threads on ATS discussing God's creationism.

I would like to hear only from those who can present a science theory or a repeatable theory.