Hollow Moon, Hollow Earth?

Originally posted by Mr No One
I am just suggesting that people keep an open mind and learn to question the "facts" that they are fed by the mainstream. Feel free to keep your mind closed if you like.

My mind is not �closed� it�s open to repeatable scientific evidence witch I have presented to you and this forum. You continue to say its just theory when sound science and study says otherwise. You say to �keep an open mind� to the utterly absurd and to ignore factual science, I would say that you are the one with the closed mind.

Originally posted by Kano
Well to find out that the Earth is hollow would mean that a large range of modern science is utterly false. Sciences that have been studied and built upon for centuries. Without a single shred of evidence that goes against the modern theories.

"Any Good Scientist" would also know that there is a point where the 'anything is possible' argument becomes stupidity. Thinking that 'ooh the Earth could still be hollow' is not keeping an open mind. It is wasting time and generally foolish. "Any Good Scientist" would tell you about a chap named Occam, and just how useless this kind of reasoning is.

It is never a waste of time to consider a possibility. The principle of parsimony is only used to help find the most probable outcome - not the one true answer.

For example, through two data points in a diagram you can always draw a straight line, and induce that all further observations will lie on that line. However, you could also draw an infinite variety of the most complicated curves passing through those same two points, and these curves would fit the empirical data just as well. Only Occam's razor would in this case guide you in choosing the "straight" (i.e. linear) relation as best candidate model. A similar reasoning can be made for n data points lying in any kind of distribution.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Mr No One
I am just suggesting that people keep an open mind and learn to question the "facts" that they are fed by the mainstream. Feel free to keep your mind closed if you like.

My mind is not �closed� it�s open to repeatable scientific evidence witch I have presented to you and this forum. You continue to say its just theory when sound science and study says otherwise. You say to �keep an open mind� to the utterly absurd and to ignore factual science, I would say that you are the one with the closed mind.

First, I think you meant reputable not repeatable - just because you say it again doesn't make it right.

Second, you have not supplied evidence. You have supplied sound theories (with which I, again, say I agree).

While I do believe the Earth has a crust, mantle & core I again say there remains the possibilty (albeit far fetched) that we are wrong. Please think of definitions here - possibility vs probability. In all probability, the Earth is solid there remains, however, the possibility that it is hollow. Until we have irrefutable proof one way or another, both possibilities remain.

The magnetic field of the earth is caused by a molten iron core. If the earth was hollow, we would expect no magnetic field.

A hollow planet would also be extremely unstable. The rock on the inner edge is attracted to the center of the earth. Instead of laying on the ground, loose rock on the inner edge of a hollow earth would fall up.

Originally posted by Mr No OneIt is never a waste of time to consider a possibility. The principle of parsimony is only used to help find the most probable outcome - not the one true answer.

Sure it is if there is no reason whatsoever to suspect the prevalent theory is incorrect. Nor any reason to suspect your competing theory has any grounding.

While it's very unlikely the Earth is hollow, it's big enough to have large holes. I've been in a few little caverns that are not really so little. We build undergound bases that are like little cities which are holes in the earth. Could there be bigger holes in the earth then I have seen near the surface, sure I think it's likely there's more to see then I have seen. Hollow no, but holes big enough to put a city in maybe.

What is the theory for the almost perfect orbit of our moon and that the rotation is such that the same side is always facing the Earth ?

Seems like the chances of this exact rotation rate occuring should be very low if not impossible!

It is called tidal lock. The gravity of the earth affects the rotation of the moon in such a way that the rotation relative to the earth slows down and eventually stops. The same side is always turned to the earth then.

Tides and Gravitational Locking
Earth-Moon system: Tidal lock

Speaking of gravity, can someone explain how that works? Tell me, how does our gravity keep the moon at its present location? Does gravity work like a Star Trek "Tractor Beam"? Wht hasnt the moon been pulled into the earth" Its been 4 or 5 billion years now, surely it would have been here by now. Or does a one direction gravity also push the moon away at the same time? Wouldnt that make it a "Two way" gravity?

Explain this please..............

Originally posted by kinglizard
My mind is not �closed� it�s open to repeatable scientific evidence witch I have presented to you and this forum.

Originally posted by Mr No One
First, I think you meant reputable not repeatable - just because you say it again doesn't make it right.

:LOL: No, I think he meant exactly what he said, repeatable. That is the basis for the scientific method. All experiment that are designed to test the validity of a theory must be repeatable, yielding the same results every time.







edit:

In all probability, the Earth is solid there remains, however, the possibility that it is hollow. Until we have irrefutable proof one way or another, both possibilities remain.

Again you fail to grasp the process by which a theory is tested. Is it falsifiable? Can I prove that it is false? These are the tests that you need to apply. You claim that there is no irrefutable proof, but the there is the fact that the hollow earth theory is easily falsified, and proven wrong.



[Edited on 14-5-2004 by HowardRoark]

All Seeying Eye, because the moon is not stationary with respect to the earth. If it was stationary with respect to eath then it would fall towards us.

Here is a handy answer to this question from cornell uni's ask an astronomer site. How does the Moon stay "suspended" in the air?

Also the Moon is slowly but surely moving away from the Earth by 3.8 centimeters a year. In several million years it will look much smaller than today and at some point will just be a dot in the night sky.

Originally posted by kinglizard
The mass of the moon has a direct effect on the oceanic tidal movements on earth. If the moon was hollow scientists would have found out by the gravitational pull. I don�t feel like searching out this info, maybe somebody else could find relevant information on the net.

Yes! Exactly. If the moon was hollow it wouldnt have much of a gravitational pull on the Earth's tides.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by Mr No One
(I'm not saying it means its hollow either, but we can't PROVE one or the other).

I kind of think that we can. Certainly there is ample evidence that the Earth is not hollow.

The hollow moon theory has never been seriously accepted by anyone. There have been numerous theories on the origin of the moon, but the latest (the big splat) manages to tie in all of the loose ends, the lunar motion, the orbit, the lunar mass, and most importantly, the composition of the lunar rocks retieved by the Apollo missions.

How do you propose to prove the earth is solid? Have you been to the center? And when you were there, did you take pictures of a moltin core?

Think about it. If the earth's core was truly moltin do you think you could walk on the surface? What temp do they say the core is? Dont you think that, that heat would of "Leached" out to the outter core by now? Or maybe the earth has some sort of "Air Conditioner" somewhere down there, cooling things off before it heated the surface. Do you have pictures of that? Do you really believe the north and south pole could have ice on it if it were true?

This is for you to prove to us. I dont know about the others here at ATS, but for me I need hard core proof, not some mumbo jumbo from some ancient secret society member, selling me more snake oil.

while i would agree that deciding something is fact based on popular scienctific belief isnt proof heat does leach out, its called a volcano and we live on the crust, much like anything that cools,, the center is hot the outside cools first and gets more solid, dont get me wrong i believe that there may be a solid core or a there may not be, i dont know and i would never quote someone elses tests or scientific theory as fact

Originally posted by amantine
It is called tidal lock. The gravity of the earth affects the rotation of the moon in such a way that the rotation relative to the earth slows down and eventually stops. The same side is always turned to the earth then.

Tides and Gravitational Locking
Earth-Moon system: Tidal lock

thats a great link that means nothing to most of us,, lets put this in basic terms,, science says that we prove something by the same thing happening again and again under a test,, so.. are there any other moons that orbit our other planets with the same behavior? im not an expert on this but i dont think there is,, please explain that without an impossible equation making an excuse for what we dont understand

Originally posted by genesiss
lets put this in basic terms,, science says that we prove something by the same thing happening again and again under a test,, so.. are there any other moons that orbit our other planets with the same behavior?

Good question, genesiss, I�m impressed. There may be hope for you after all.

It only took a few minutes on Google to find the answer.


�Almost all satellites in the Solar System show the same face to their planet, as the Moon does to Earth.�

more

Originally posted by amantine
It is called tidal lock. The gravity of the earth affects the rotation of the moon in such a way that the rotation relative to the earth slows down and eventually stops. The same side is always turned to the earth then.

Also sun has little same kind of effect to Mercury, because of that resonance planet's day is much longer than its year.
www.solarviews.com...

Does the Moon rotate? Are there other moons that always keep one face toward their planet?
csep10.phys.utk.edu...

Is the Moon hollow?
Also in case of Earth in what would seismic waves travel if Earth would be just hollow shell?

Originally posted by outsider
While it's very unlikely the Earth is hollow, it's big enough to have large holes. I've been in a few little caverns that are not really so little.

Mammoth cave is biggest known natural chain of caves.
Total length of known corridors is around 500 km. (better not to lost there)

Biggest chamber is Sarawak Chamber which is 600m long, 400m wide and 100m high.
www.showcaves.com...

And even bedrock has cracks and small chambers so that total biomass (mostly bacterias) living underground might be even bigger than what's living on surface.

Originally posted by kinglizard
Also the Moon is slowly but surely moving away from the Earth by 3.8 centimeters a year. In several million years it will look much smaller than today and at some point will just be a dot in the night sky.

It's just Earth synchronizing its rotation with moon's one... and with its orbital period.

Tidal Coupling in the Earth-Moon System
Thus, the fact that the rotational period of the Moon and the orbital period of the Earth-Moon system are of the same length is not an accident. Presumably this was not always true, but over billions of years the tidal coupling of the Earth and the Moon has led to this synchronization. In the case of the Earth-Moon system the synchronization is not yet complete. The Earth is slowly decreasing its rotational period and eventually the Earth and Moon will have exactly the same rotational period, and these will also exactly equal the orbital period. At the same time, the separation between the Earth and Moon will slowly increase in just such a way as to conserve angular momentum for the entire system.

Thus, billions of years from now the Earth will always keep the same face turned toward the Moon, just as the Moon already always keeps the same face turned toward the Earth. We will encounter other examples of such tidal locking in other pairs of objects in the Solar System.
csep10.phys.utk.edu...

Dont you think that, that heat would of "Leached" out to the outter core by now?

Well... Yes I do. Ever heard of things called volcanoes? Funny how they are formed due to the pressure of the inner layers, and molten lava & gases being pushed to the surface under the extreme pressure. Damn, suppose that puts a bit of a dent in the hollow earth theory. Also, the moon rings like a bell? What, did they have someone with their ear to the ground listening while someone else hit it with a REALLY big hammer? "One small step for man, one giant dooooong for mankind"