Survival Skills PT. 2 - Camouflague, the art of invisibility & how and why it works

Great thread, S + F'd.

I didn't realise the Ghillie suits were first used by gamekeepers here.

Thanks for all the great info, lots to learn from here. As someone has already pointed out, very much like what we were taught in the army here.

CX.

reply to post by Asktheanimals
One thing that I do not think was covered well enough in your initial post,was the need to move as quietly as possible,it always compliments effective camo,and moving carelessly/noisily,will give you away no matter how invisible you are.

Check yourself for snags and rattles,prerun you path without your gear,determine your path,go get your gear,move slowly on terrain you already know.

You must also be able to hear others moving nearby over the noise you make,the quieter,the better.

Look ahead,think ahead,move as slow as you can.

I have been in a situation in the past,where a dog came up and took a sniff,then walked away....SCARY fun!.

If you camo yourself to look similar to a tree,you better move like one too,one really slow step,really slowly look around,then another really slow step,you can move through open terrain this way at night with a little luck,out here in civvieland it's too easy,even in daylight.

Down here in the scrub of florida,it is nearly impossible to move quietly without going really really really slow btw.

Anyway......

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
That's funny you should mention urban camo,my brother and I were getting drunk one night,and we decided to make a "garbage ghillie suit",we figured one could just lay in the gutter and go un-noticed by passers by.

We also considered cutting a milk jug or foam float to put on your head to look like a crab trap out in the water.....fun.

Never used it,got a laugh,threw it away later...it was just junk anyway...

Funny how people don't see things,they assume to see what they look at.

An idea to consider though.

very nice thred. star and flag.

Not sure I have much faith in camouflage in the days of thermal imaging. I would be more interested to know what you recommend to avoid or misdirect thermal imaging or the like. For example, I understand that these days there are devices that can identify the signature of a gun from a distance. When I lived in Phoenix some years back, there where very unusual helicopters that would hover over building late at night at less than 100 feet overhead. Hover for a long time in one place. I always suspected it was some kind of detection process under way. Any info???

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Excellent thread S&F! You have provided a lot of useful information. As one poster pointed out, movement is a dead giveaway. Staying still is very important. When I have been hunting, you will be looking at an animal in some brush but may not actually see it until it moves an ear or tail. Same goes for people, if you stay still you increase your odds tremendously.

If i see something suspicious, I will stop and look at it for a few minutes, waiting to see if what i'm looking at moves. If it doesnt move after 5 minutes, most people will move on.

I have been told that one should not look directly at an suspicious object but instead a little to the left or right for better/clearer vision. Is this true? I believe I read this in John Plaster's SOG about his time in the US Army's elite Military Assistant Command Vietnam Studies and Observation Group during the Vietnam War.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by ChrisF231]

reply to post by ChrisF231


That probably has to do with the blind spot on your retina. For better night vision, look in a slightly different direction by 5 degrees or so. Maybe the OP or one of our resident ground pounders can answer you better.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

As one poster pointed out, movement is a dead giveaway. Staying still is very important. When I have been hunting, you will be looking at an animal in some brush but may not actually see it until it moves an ear or tail. Same goes for people, if you stay still you increase your odds tremendously.

thanks for the kind words camo. You make a really good point about spotting and that is that people will probably only see a part of you, the same as you see the animals. The difference is, will you pick him out before he picks you? Silence is a virtue especially in the woods.

Originally posted by Frogs
Any other tips on movement?

If your thighs were burning you may have been doing something right, like crouching and keeping your head BELOW the level of the surrounding brush and looking THROUGH it instead of over or around it? Tune in to your surroundings, hear the brids, bugs ,wind, they will tell you alot about whats going on.

If youre moving and theyre not shutting up or fussing because of you you're doing good. Learn to creep through brush wihtout the branches slapping back and making noise. Find the openings for you feet, legs and body and slither on through.
Be the deer! Pick your feet up high enough that they do';t catch on things. When stalking you may get stuck in very odd positions (like standing on one leg or crawling through an ant mound and you can't move or you will be spotted). Work your way upwind even on human opponents, use the terrain and vegetation to block their view of you as you work closer. Oh, and patience, patience, patience.

Originally posted by ReelView
Not sure I have much faith in camouflage in the days of thermal imaging. I would be more interested to know what you recommend to avoid or misdirect thermal imaging or the like.

I'm unsure of what sensory capabilities are available to military and police these days. Back in the 90's we could evade IR with a space blanket but I think those days are long gone. Someone with current military experience should handle that one. It scares me too btw!

Originally posted by ChrisF231
I have been told that one should not look directly at an suspicious object but instead a little to the left or right for better/clearer vision. Is this true?

yes, it is a good way to pick up movement, even if it's very slight. It is also a better way to view an object in low light since the eye lacks rods in the middle of the fovea. You literally have a "blind spot" in the middle of your eye.

very nice post!!! but i do want to ask you about something the normal person has no idea about

that is color blindness, i have mild red/green colorblindness, it hereditary, my grandfather on my mothers side had it, my mother was a carrier of the gene and her first born son recieved it......me

it was horrible haveing this as a child, when my friends found out about it they would ask me, "what color is this?" and i would reply 'BRIGHT RED!" and i would get ridiculed cuz i ansered it right, well it doesnt work that way

certain shades of red and green, i see as different shades to give you an example my gradfather was a medic during ww2 he was in the china burma india theater, the intelegence officers would regularly take him up in a plane to scout the jungle and he could pic out most of the camo netting the japanese would put up to hide things

i can tell you that most desert camo netting stands out like neon signs to me!! and i have allways been able to pic out animals hideing in the forest before my parents or my uncle could see them

i have heard that the military has done extensive studys useing solders who are color blind, does anybody know anything more on this subject?? if you dont want to post here you can U2U me and ill anser any personal questions you have


be safe people

reply to post by viperdave


Thanks. You absolutely have an advantage. My oldest son is colorblind and he has the same ability. Let someone else pick your camo colors but beyond that you'll have the best eyes out there!

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

star and flag! Great post!
I do have a question. What would you suggest for someone who is bowhunting on the ground?
#1. I don't like heights.
#2. I weigh to damn much to sit in a tree.

I'm not a trophy hunter. I'm interested in meat for the table. And if it comes to a case where TSHTF, I'd rather save my ammunition if possible.
In the distant past, we just bought whatever was on the rack, but patterns, knowledge, and times have changed.
Thanks for the thread.

The one that is suppose to work the bet is the scent blocker camo
suits that are geared toward a fall time of year look, the most common
reason for a deer to run is he heard you or smelled you.

Scent blocker camo is a bit pricey.

Ppl get up in the trees because deer do not look up much,
and the tactic works well.

I have seen 400 lb. men up in trees, but they get a more advanced
method of getting up there, and they de-scent all their gear.

If anything you carry in has human smell on it, the deer will likely
smell it.

Always approach a likely deer spot down wind and do your best not
to make a lot of noise.

A deers eyesight of color is actually not that good, they do see
movement very well, this article describes it.

Deer see movement

Some ppl setup at a spot hours before daybreak because deer are
most active near dawn and dusk.

Some of the older bigger bucks even go nocturnal, even thou I think
it is illegal some ppl use nightvision to hunt these.

To get an idea of what the deer are like in your area, put out a elevated
feeder can and setup a motion activated camera nearby, and you
will get to see what deer come to eat.

A lot of ppl use this method to sell hunting leases around the US.



[edit on 29-8-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by kettlebellysmith

 

Well unless you are hunting turkey remember that nearly all
mammals are colorblind. so the shades of color aren't as important
as the value or lightness/darkness of it. The pattern shouldnt look too wild or busy. Also use that special wash that doesnt bleach your clothes or whiten them. Scentlok materials and shoes really are great for deer hunting I can testify to that. Whatever has quiet material is also helpful, some materials are just noisy when going through brush. If you can wear sneakers rather than boots you can walk much more quietly. Good luck with the hunting!

My dad came across some info... trying to confirm it... but anyways besides seeing in color, turkeys see ultraviolet... sort of like deer more or less... so now when we go turkey hunting, we also spray our close with UV killer. Seen many turkeys up close in the woods... like 10 ft and they didn't see us so... o ya important camoflauge tip... don't move around!!! works in video games and works in reallife... human/animal vision will easily spot a moving target. You can easily hide in plain sight if you keep your motions to a dumbed down minimum. For example... even with a turkey about 10ft away... i was still able to do all kinds of things... like get my shotgun on a shooting stick... get comfortable... if you do it slow enough, you can probably crawl to 4 inches of that bird lol.

If i am hiding from people i try to stay higher then the trails.
people don't look up as often as they look down.

The best place to hide is in a tree or high spot.
Its also a good place to stage a ambush from.
Just leave a idem on the trail and they will check it out with you right above them. some one tracking you will see the idem and focus on it and what's around it and in most cases not look up.

For moving with out being heard slowly move 5 paces then stop and check for movement and sound. fast movement is easy to see.
Repeat as needed.

reply to post by ANNED


One thing to remember about any ambush...

If it goes wrong, where is your escape route?

That is why you never see any "real" Snipers in trees...

Military Murphy's Law...

"No well thought out plan ever survives initial contact"

Semper

There is some very good knowledge of cammo techniques in this post both from the original article and some of the replies as well. Great job. A few additional points though, that I didn't see mentioned; 1) In reference to nature's own camouglage, this goes along with the video of the face camo techniques as far as applying light cammo to low-lying areas and applying darker cammo to the higher areas of the face, etc. Look at most wild animals and you'll notice that their fur will be lighter on their undersides (anterior) and darker on their backsides (posterior). This facilitates natural camouflage.
2) In response to the post that mentioned movement giving away a target; Being VERY still and/or moving ACHINGLY slow is the holy grail of remaining concealed in sniper training. This is also the most irritating part of the training simply due to the patience required to always act in a fashion in which you assume you're being observed, because the enemy is everywhere. Also, moving VERY slowly facilitates your hearing in a woodland/jungle/night environment, and this is key to observing the target before it has the opportunity to observe you. When I say moving slowly, an example would be the following: In the prone position, while low crawling, we're talking about moving nearly imperceptibly, at a pace of a foot a minute or slower in order to give the perception that movement is not taking place.

Very good post, one thing that I would like to add is camouflage is continues. One thing they taught us in the Marine Corps is that you always need to keep change you camouflage. If your using weeds and leafs they will turn brown after some time and you need to change them out with new ones or you will stick out like a sore thumb.

Just a reminder, Halloween is right around the corner. Lots of various paints for the face and some of the costumes can be converted to meet your needs.
Excellant thread. star for yusa.

I used to "camo up" and hide out in the brush....just sitting, not moving, and watching. Trying to get some sense of how the critters were moving around. I once looked up just in time to flinch from a redtail hawk diving right at my face..... Yeesh. Apparently, my eyeballs moving side to side fooled it into thinking there was some small prey critter in that brush pile. After that, I started wearing a cap with a brim to shield my eyes from above......crows can spot that too, and they will raise a ruckus. Take that as a hint for a tactic to find someone in camo.....watch how the birds and other animals react in an area.

When trying to move across dry, leaf littered terrain, I take a cue from deer. It used to amaze me how a 200 lb. animal with four feet could move so quietly....turns out, when they set each hoof down, the front part of the hoof slips under the ground cover. It's hard to do in size 11 Rockies, but it can help if you try and slip your feet under ground cover.

[edit on 29-8-2009 by cranberrydork]

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Frogs

 

"It's all about walking on the the front of your feet instead of the usual flatfooting most people do when walking. I like to think of it was woodland ballet. "

Not wishing to say this is wrong...but, try this method ,when walking through woods etc try landing your feet on their outside edges then "rolling" them inwards ,when on the outside edges use your feet if necessary to move any underbrush/sticks before rolling them inward ,I have found this is the quietest way of moving and is the way taught as the quietest.

IT also makes you more aware of what is underfoot b4 placing the feet with full weight