Philadelphia Eagles. I Am Confused.

I am so confused!
I love the Philadelphia Eagles. My week revolves around the 3 hours a week when they play during the season. Sundays are a whole day of playing in the autumn leaves, then coming in and watching the game. Yes I yell. Yes I scream. Yes I jump like a high school cheer leader when they make a great play. When Chad Lewis made the definitive catch in the endzone that brought the Eagles to the Super Bowl several years back, my friends and I, as well as most of Philadelphia fans were cheering and somewhat weeping. I can't explain it. Big tough men who nobody would mess with were cheering with tears running down their faces. I watched the Super Bowl that year with alot of friends who run in a tough crowd. Philly fans might be hardnose, but man we are loyal.

Now here is my confusion. Michael Vick. He is a new member of the Eagles. He is a gifted athlete. I wish I had half of his talent. He might be the missing piece of the puzzle to bring the Lombardi Trophy to Philadelphia. I'm not sure how to feel. I want an Eagles Parade. More than you know. I will bang the pots, pans, and trash can lids so hard that Seagull will hear it in Seatlle!

BUT.

Michael Vick. What he served time for is aggregious. What he did, and/or supervised to those dogs is just disgusting. DISGUSTING.

He comes off here in Philly as truly sorry for his actions. I am a semi forgiving man.

Get busted for smoking something, or getting in a screaming match, I can look past it. Is there anyone reading this that hasn't done one of the two things I just mentioned? But man. What Vick did is just beyond attrition. Now, do I want a super bowl, and with Vick it might happen, or wish him and my team the disgrace Vick deserves.

I think you should stay torn, confused, and conflicted while everyone else forgives, forgets, and enjoys.

I don't mean this the way it might sound, but it's not like he killed anybody.

Peace

We'll accept you as a Steeler fan.

It's okay brother, come on over.

reply to post by lombozo


The ball's in Mike's court now, I don't think he served enough time for his crime, but according to the justice system he has.

He has stated his remorse and desire to make ammends for his deeds.

History will show if he is sincere, or merely blowing smoke.

I don't waste one minute of my time worrying about Vick, you shouldn't either.

You root for the Eagles, keep supporting them, I think it's safe to say that every single team in the NFL has a player with lower moral standards than yourself, they don't get paid for their morals, they get paid to win football games.

So for those 3 hrs each week, think EAGLES...

If you have to, you can focus on Vick for the rest of the week.

I wouldn't bother, it's his burden to bear not yours.

.02

I'm an animal lover. I watched Marley & Me and cried more than I have at funerals. (true story) But for some reason, I've forgiven Michael Vick. I was hoping he would sign with the Packers. What he did was despicable. We can talk about all the reasons that attempt to explain what happened, which does not justify, but none of it matters. However, he did serve his time. He's lost millions of dollars, he has lost his civil liberties for the better part of 2 years and now he'll be forever vilified.

People have done worse, received less of a penalty and were not hated in this manner.

Donte Stallworth killed someone while drinking and driving. 3 month sentence! Plaxico shoots himself and is gone to the big house for 2 years.

The Philly faithful showed their dedication to the team last night when they cheered Vick immediately. JUST AS ANY OTHER NFL TEAM WOULD HAVE! People can point fingers at the Philly fans for this ovation, but any other stadium filled with fans who adore their team also would have cheered. Because they know the outlook with a Michael Vick in the backfield makes your season that much brighter.

Anybody who cheers for him, wishes for him to succeed, or wears a Vick jersey does not have to apologize.

(Allow me to state again that I am a huge animal lover and not ignorant to what his actions truly entailed)

Originally posted by Dr Love

I don't mean this the way it might sound, but it's not like he killed anybody.

Peace

Hey Doc, you know I like and respect you, but you are wrong on this account in my opinion. I have had dogs in my family all my life. Yes they are my family. Vick drowned some, electrocuted some, and watched them butcher each other.

The worst I ever did to my dogs is have a water balloon fight with them. Then I would tickle them while their back legs scratched in the air (Their version of laughing).

My dog is my family member. I love him dearly. And goodness knows he shows his love to me and my son. How in the hell can you not overlook this.

Sorry. I am just torn. But my gut says go with the dog, not the gifted athlete criminal.

reply to post by lombozo


And your thoughts on Donte Stallworth getting drunk and killing someone? Is the 3 month sentence enough? Should he be able to come back to the league? Is what Vick did worse than what Stallworth did?

reply to post by chissler


Nope. It is just as bad, if not worse. If you or I did anything like it we would go in the hole forever. I believe in justice. But it needs to be standardized. Every soul should get the same prosecution. Vick and Stallworth should both be banned. FOREVER.

reply to post by lombozo


I disagree.

Very few professional athletes ask to be role models. It is us, the fan, that determined that these guys need to be role models. The media doesn't help either. But when an individual with this sort of talent makes a mistake and they pay their debt to society like any other citizen would have to, then they should be able to go back into the field of employment and find an employer willing to hire them. If that employer happens to be an NFL organization, so be it.

The double standard is a double edged sword. If we ask for fairness in determining their sentence, then we should also seek fairness when it comes to them being released back into society.

Michael Vick would never have gone to prison had he simply cooperated and had not been Michael Vick. Plaxico Burress would not be going to jail if he were not Plaxico Burress. He cooperated to the point where he put the nail in his own coffin, and how did that benefit him?

The double standard that we the fan claim to use against these athletes is the very standard that is actually hanging them out to dry.

reply to post by lombozo


I have to agree with you on that one.

Break the law, especially if you harm or kill another and you're done with professional sports.

reply to post by chissler


I more than often agree with you Chissler. (Man I hate to admit that.....)
But I couldn't disagree with you more right now.
You claim to be an animal lover. I assume you have a pet, or have had one. How can you simply overlook what crime was committed here? And committed in such a heinous way? Noe he makes more in 1 year than both of us in 10 years. I respect you Chissler, I really do, but man if there were ever a topic I would like to debate you with, here it is.

reply to post by lombozo


You seek revenge, vengeance, etc. Not justice.

Justice has been served in this case. Vick lost a lot of things. 2 years of his life were taken as he sat in a prison. (granted the last couple on house arrest) But justice was served. He committed a crime, the system stepped in and convicted him of his crimes. Now as is the case in the justice system, it is time to move on.

You said you believe in justice, but I believe you have a distorted image of exactly what it may look like. Justice is not always restitution.

reply to post by lombozo


Lombozo, I'm a life long Jets fan and if they had signed him I would have stopped supporting them.

Yes athletes are human, and it is unfair to expect more of them than any other person, but in this case I for one am not ...

Username nomenclature aside, animal abuse ranks pretty high on my list of disturbing and unacceptable behavior. I won't comment on his sentence because he went through the legal system and that's good enough for me.

It isn't even a matter of me standing on my soapbox and moralizing ... I just simply couldn't be okay with my mirror supporting a team that has him on their roster. I would get upset and angry at the images of what he did in the back of my head every time his name would come up.

Plus, I wouldn't want to be near karma's path as she is approaching him, and the eagles organization has surely done just that.

But that's just me.

[edit on 28 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by chissler


Actually we have had this debate in previous times. Sir, I have made it perfectly clear to you as well as the entire board that I respect you. The revenge, vengeance is getting kind of old from a man of your intelligence. And I recognize your intelligence Chissler. You are smarter than I. I make no bones about that. You just are. That being said, I do hope that you realize how horrible a crime to kill a dog, or any life. Especially by drowning or electrocution.
I am a boxing fan. I LOVE a great fight. So I have a side that is into pugulism. BUT I do not want to watch any animal, human or not kill one another. I'll fight anybody, and have no problem lifting a beer with my opponent after. But this is different, and you are smart enough to see it. This SOB killed dogs, and made money off of it.

Let me ask you Chissler. If you made several million dollars a year, and had the majority of fans screaming for your success, would you kill animals who want nothing more than some grooming, alot of petting, and an occasional bone?

Well I will answer first. I make a decent living. I have 2 cats and 1 dog. They are my family. Even when I see cat puke on the carpet, I just pick it up. My dog. His poops are huge! And I pick them up in the yard daily.
BUT.
To hurt him in anyway? No matter how mad I might be after I see a pile in the yard, or after he chews on my belongings..... Aside from a click of my fingers, and telling him to lay down nothing more.

Challenge me Chissler.

Originally posted by lombozo
My dog is my family member. I love him dearly. And goodness knows he shows his love to me and my son. How in the hell can you not overlook this.

I'm not overlooking it at all, I'm just not going to make it my burden to carry as well, as Jack said. I'm not going to let what Vick did ruin my Sunday's and Monday's. I want to see a good game and I want to see the best athletes compete. Whatever Vick did, it's on him, not you or I.

The law put Vick in prison, you're putting yourself in prison.

Peace

[edit on 28-8-2009 by Dr Love]

What he did is despicable and there are no two ways about that but hey, he's a human being. He paid his debt to society so to speak and more importantly is working to improve himself. A lot of people say it's just a show and I might think that myself if not for one thing and that's Tony Dungy taking up for him. There's nobody in the NFL (+) that I can say I respect more and his judgment on the matter is more than good enough for me.

If Vick has the skills to do the job (questionable), let him.

Originally posted by chissler
I was hoping he would sign with the Packers.

Originally posted by chissler
Donte Stallworth killed someone while drinking and driving. 3 month sentence! Plaxico shoots himself and is gone to the big house for 2 years.

I'm a bit confused at what you are saying here. Are you saying Plaxico Burress didn't get enough time or got too much time?

In my opinion, of the three NFL players we are discussing here, Plaxico Burress' "crime" is BY FAR the least serious, yet he got the most time. Donte Stallworth and Michael Vick should both be in prison for life and permanently banned from the NFL.

What Michael Vick did is inexcusable. Role model or not, what he did is disgusting and pathetic. To reward his behavior with potentially $10 million is both a mockery of justice and morality on the part of the Eagles.

If I thought I was going to get millions of dollars I'd do my time and claim to be remorseful as well.

Michael Vick isn't sorry for what he did, he's sorry he got caught. He may never hold or attend another dog fight, but that doesn't undo the torturous treatment he gave to innocent animals and it doesn't excuse rewarding low-life scum like him with a $10 million contract.

I think you've got to separate the issues. Regardless of your feelings for Vick, if the league says he's eligible and the Eagles believe he can help the team, then the Eagles are doing what they're supposed to do, assemble the best team they can with the intent to win a Super Bowl.

Come Sunday, you're cheering for laundry, anyway. Nobody sits down and goes through the roster to see who has the most Solid Citizens or fewest miscreants before deciding who to root for. If they did, everyone would be a Colts fan .

If Vick would've been banned for life, that would've been just fine with me. The difference between Vick and Stallworth is Vick knowingly and willingly did what he did. There was no accident. It was intentional, and inexcusable. I believe whatever remorse he's displayed is more about the consequences than the acts.

So any animosity for Vick's return is left to be directed to the NFL who is permitting his return. You can't fault Vick or the Eagles for taking advantage of the situation. Although you can (and I do) still hold Vick in contempt for his actions.

As for me, I prefer to not complicate my Sundays. All the personal crap just detracts from the game. Blue Horseshoe=Good. Everyone else=Evil. I don't want to be thinking about what a nice guy Matt Schaub is, come Sunday I just want Dwight Freeney to knock his head off.

reply to post by lombozo


An Eagles fan is confused? Wow...such a surprise...not.



did I say that?

But seriously, Vick has served his time, and deserves another shot. As for Stallworth...I really don't know...I'm sure he didn't mean to do what he did, yet he chose to drink and drive...and someone died. If Leonard Little, and others can play...

I'd say root for the Eagles, just like you always do. The rest will have to take care of itself.

[edit on 9/3/2009 by seagull]

Originally posted by chissler
reply to post by lombozo

 

And your thoughts on Donte Stallworth getting drunk and killing someone? Is the 3 month sentence enough? Should he be able to come back to the league? Is what Vick did worse than what Stallworth did?

Donte Stallworth drove drunk and killed someone. He messed up. his goal wasn't to get in the car and kill someone, but it happaned. He somehow managed to find a way to pay himself out of real jailtime.

Vick intended to murder and torture animals. His goal was to allow these things to happen, not once or twice but for years upon years.

Any one of us could get in the car and accidentally kill someone (even NOT drunk). However not every one of us will actively seek out animals to kill and torture.

Accidentally killing someone in a car does not carry the same weight as a serial killer. You can't accidentally rape or torture other human beings repeatedly for years and try to compare that to someone who accidentally killed someone.

But we are talking animals here right not another person. Well most serial killers are known to torture and kill animals before upgrading to the real thing.

I am from Philly and I am an Eagles fan. I went to the Pre-season game where Vick played for the first time. The crowd is giving him a chance, regardless of what you see in the media.

Personally only time will tell if he truly has been rehabilitated. If he has then good for him, if not then I hope he rots in hell. No man can do anything about that, only maker can.

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