Musicians, Songwriters and Studio Geeks Thread

reply to post by susp3kt

I'm a home studio producer/DJ. I got into Drum & Bass in the mid-90's and have been into it since.

Cool, man! I like some D&B, like Roni Size and Spring Heel Jack (and Atari Teenage Riot and Aphex Twin, if they count ).

I started out using Reason, but have since migrated to Ableton Live.

I like to have both around just in case. Reason is my personal favorite of the two, but occasionally you hit limits with what it can do and that's when Live comes in handy. And yes Rewire RULES! I use it to interface Reason and Live with Pro Tools. Absolutely amazing technology.

Thanks for the reply, much luck with your creative endeavors, and please stop by again! This thread is for discussing anything related to writing/recording music, so please post away. I can guarantee that I'll discuss it with you and I'm willing to bet that some of the other folks who have posted will join in too.


TA

Guitar player for 20+ years. Love every music, but play mostly metal.
I've been in bands my whole life and am working on a new band now.
As soon as we record I can post the website.

Mesa Boogie Dual Rec...of course!
Marshall JSM DSL 100, for backup...
2 1960 A + B cabs.
All Boss pedals on a board the size of Texas.
Also, a 1981 Digitech Whammy that I absolutely drool on.

ESP MH-1000 FR
Schecter Hellraiser
Schecter Tempest Blackjack Custom
Schecter Tempest Custom
Like 11 other guitars in pieces!

Love music and great thread idea. Wanna know more? Ask!

If anybody wants to u2u me with some dnb tips or dubstep tips then i'd be very happy to learn.

When i say tips: I mean bar structures, composition and how to create deadly 'wub wub'bass sounds...

reply to post by havok

Sounds like a pretty awesome rig, man! Gotta admit, I'm a bit envious Thanks for the reply, and please stop by again.




reply to post by mr-lizard

Hello mr-lizard, hope you're doing well

When i say tips: I mean bar structures, composition and how to create deadly 'wub wub'bass sounds...

If you can give me some examples, I'd be more than happy to help. It's always fun to reverse engineer a synth sound. As for bar structure, you could maybe try using a weird time signature like 7/8 or something and try fitting a sliced up 4/4 loop into it. Just spit-balling on that one, but it might sound interesting. Anyway, link or embed some youtube videos that have the type of sound you're going for and I'll do what I can to help ya!


TA

[edit on 23-11-2009 by TheAssociate]

reply to post by mr-lizard


First off we need to know what application you are using. Dubstep bass (wobbly bass), is just a matter of mapping LFO to a knob. Here's a decent and FREE tutorial for Ableton:

Yay, a music and recording thread!
I've been pickin' a guitar for almost 40 years now (why aren't I better?), and we (my band & I) have more crap than we probably should.

My favorite effect is digital delay, without a doubt. I have more fun with those than should be legal.

Software? Never used a computer for making music, but I firmly believe that all the software guys lie constantly when they tell you "it sounds just like a (insert piece of equipment here)". They may be close, but it doesn't sound "just like" anything they claim it does.

Writing happens when it happens, I don't try to force creativity.

My current favorite instrument is my Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion. It sounds like buttah! I'm running it stereo through a few effects into a pair of Fender Hot Rod Deluxes

We do some recording in my garage/studio, but rarely finish anything. Currently we're running an Allen & Heath GS-3000 studio board into either our 4 black face Alesis ADAT machines or our Tascam MS-16 1" reel to reel machine. We have a heap of effect units, compressors, EQs, and other stuff. We have a suitcase full of mics, my favorite being a MXL V69 ME tube large diaphragm condensor mic.

Here's a little sample of something we did a little while ago. It was really just a mic test to see how a couple new mics worked on acoustic guitar and vocals and such, but it came out ok. A tape glitch cut off the first half second or so. :bnghd:

I'll surely be checking on this thread from time to time. I now have a reason to look at BTS.

Thanks for the replies...

I personally make vague, sermi-structured experimental music as a rule.

I'm used to cubase but im currently only have access to Reaper.

Anyway i wanna figure out how to create bass lines like the one in the vid below:

[WARNING CONTAINS EXTREME BASS]

www.youtube.com...

I can only assume it's a saw tooth wave form, compressed to high hell, slight reverb, maybe double layered with different EQ settings... pushed through LFO's...???

But then again it's hard to tell...

reply to post by mr-lizard


Give me a day or two to figure out how to get Digi MME Helper working so I can hear audio from the net on my studio monitors...computer speakers don't work very well for listening to bass lines...and I'll do what I can to figure out what's going on in that track.

In the mean time, here is a place to get free VST synths and effects (legally... free as in 'free beer') and there's a billion other places with tons of free VST's.

At least one of those should be able to produce a similar sound. I'll get to work reverse engineering that bass sound when I get a chance, and will post any results I come up with. I haven't forgotten, I've just been busy, but I will help as soon as I can. Thanks for being patient and thanks for posting.


TA

reply to post by subject x


Welcome, man. Thanks for posting!

I firmly believe that all the software guys lie constantly when they tell you "it sounds just like a (insert piece of equipment here)"

I tend to agree. There's probably never going to be a perfect software emulation of say, a Moog Voyager; code just isn't a replacement for analog circuitry. On the other hand, some of the software emulations of outboard gear I've heard and use sound close enough, and seeing as how I'll probably never be able to afford the real thing, 'close enough' is okay by me.

Currently we're running an Allen & Heath GS-3000 studio board

*TheAssociate drools*

and we (my band & I) have more crap than we probably should.

NEVER! There's no such thing as too many noise toys.

I'll give the track ya posted a listen as soon as I'm able to get sound from the net through my studio monitors. Listening to it on the crappy little computer speakers would be an injustice.

Thanks for the reply, and please drop back by some time, your experience and wisdom would be a valuable asset to the thread!


TA

About the digital and midi instruments, I would like to say that if you're buying the right synths, you actually ARE getting the REAL instrument.

For example, if you buy Ivory Bosendorfer 290, you are actually playing high quality recorded key strikes from the Bosendorfer 290. These triggers are recorded at a much higher fidelity than most people can afford to do. They also record light taps, arpeggios, etc. so you have everything at your fingertips with even a crappy little midi board.

All of my synths are high quality REAL instruments. I actually record my own as well and when triggered with midi it sounds just like playing the Steinway Concert piano. After all, in an indirect sense, I am playing it.

reply to post by SantaClaus

Yep, you're right about that. If the synth is sample based, and the sample set is thorough and high enough quality, it is hard to distinguish from the real thing.

Where the real discrepancy lies is in the user. Learning to mix correctly and the mastery of HPF's and LPF's is absolutely important to the composition. You're not going to capture the tone of a MiniMoog even if you own one without proper mixing techniques.

The importance is in the end product. If you don't know how to record those beautiful tones, you might as well forget about establishing high-end instruments in the first place.

Not to toot my own horn, as I am not a very good musician, but I can make a crappy washburn axe sound better than most people can make their Les Paul customs sound.

Originally posted by SantaClaus
I actually record my own as well and when triggered with midi it sounds just like playing the Steinway Concert piano. After all, in an indirect sense, I am playing it.

I have to disagree. You might be able to get "close enough", but there's no way it will sound "just like" a Steinway. There are way to many variables in the acoustics of a grand piano. How you play it, where you play it, variations in wood from one piano to the next, temperature, humidity, all these have an impact on how the piano sounds. Different combinations of notes, at different volumes, have an impact on how the wood resonates. A digital recreation doesn't account for all these variables (yet). Not to mention the fact that with digital recording/sampling you don't get the entire waveform (thus the "sawtooth" wave when displayed on a scope, as opposed to the smooth analog wave of the real deal). I admit, they're getting closer, and eventually will most likely get there, but currently, no.

In most cases these days, though, the sampled version is definitely close enough, especially considering how most stuff is smash mastered to make it louder than the last song you heard on iTunes, so it kinda sounds like poop anyway. Combine this with the fact that 99% of the listeners are listening on crappy ear buds, computer speakers, or car stereos with the EQ jacked all wrong and yes, it's probably close enough.

Some things there is just no substitute for. Tube amps and grand pianos are definitely on the list, along with pretty much any wind instrument. I don't care how well it's sampled, there is nothing that sounds "just like" a Steinway live in a good room.

I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but from what I've seen, with current digital technology instruments are just not reproduced 100%.

This is, of course, just my opinion. Music and sound are such subjective things, there are no absolutes.

reply to post by subject x


I take it you haven't played any of the concert pianos on Ivory? I mean, the entire pack takes each piano, records them with I believe 5 different key strikes (to ensure you'll be able to use your fingers to make the strike a bit more beefy or light depending on your preference), and does so in a pristine recording environment that would rival any other in the world. They have taken into consideration almost every player's style, and if your personal keyboard is set up to receive such information, you can play it at just your style.

These are not at all "digital recreations," they are 100% authentic digital recordings. Now if you really want to have the kindle and the ivory at your hands, a program can't help you.

I use Ivory as an example, because it is a great program, but there are hundreds of others that do the same thing with different instruments.

Originally posted by SantaClaus
I take it you haven't played any of the concert pianos on Ivory?

You take it correctly, I haven't. Of course, I'm not a piano player.

I mean, the entire pack takes each piano, records them with I believe 5 different key strikes (to ensure you'll be able to use your fingers to make the strike a bit more beefy or light depending on your preference), and does so in a pristine recording environment that would rival any other in the world. They have taken into consideration almost every player's style, and if your personal keyboard is set up to receive such information, you can play it at just your style.

Five strokes aren't very many, when you consider how many intervals there are between softest and hardest. It's impossible to take into account "almost every player's style". There's just to many of them.

These are not at all "digital recreations," they are 100% authentic digital recordings.

Did you really just say that? If a recording is not a re-creation, what is it? Recording on any media is not a 100% reproduction of the original. It will always color the sound to a certain extent. When you play a sampled instrument, it is, indeed, a digital re-creation of the sampled instrument, and at this point digital technology doesn't reproduce the entire waveform, so there's no way it can be a 100% re-creation of the original.

I will say that a digital version is easier to work with, as it will be inherently more consistant/controllable then the original. It will be easier to record, edit, and "transmit" from media to media. But the fact that this is true just confirms that it is not 100% the same as the actual instrument.

Not to say that the sampled version isn't good enough to use, but to say it's 100% is a stretch. I'd say that with today's capabilities you could probably get a 99% true representation, which is more than enough to sound good on a recording.

Obviously, we could go back and forth on this forever. There's really no point in it though, as I doubt I'll be able to convince you, and I know you'll never be able to convince me. Recording-wise, both paths get you to the same place, so in the end it's really a moot point.

hey crow here

I write songs for people however i dont know how to make beats or music to go along with them, could any one reccomend a way to go about it.

I would like to know what stuff i would need e.g programmes ect.

Sorry this is a noobish question buti want to progress abit than just writing for other peoples music

reply to post by thecrow001


Ableton Live is a good place to start. It's powerful enough to create professional tracks, but (relatively) simple to learn. It can record and process audio and includes a good set of virtual instruments, as well as allowing you to use VST and VSTi plug-ins. Thanks for dropping by, and feel free to ask anything here, or I'm always open to U2U's if I can be of further assistance.


TA

edit because I try to type faster than I should

[edit on 22-12-2009 by TheAssociate]

reply to post by TheAssociate


thank you this should help my songwriting alot.

i will u2u if i need help.

My Vox wah and my Boss Delay pedal run through my Line 6 Spider 3.

I like using the Cool Edit Pro. I've been lucky to record in a pro studio and I have to say that I prefer the home studio. It affords you the luxury of taking your time to do things right and you can do whatever you want in the mix.

My style of composition varies. If I'm writing a pop song, then it tends to stick to traditional format. Otherwise, specially when writing within the metal realm, it has no format.

I like my Ibanez 320 RG. also my Epiphone SG Special. both have great action and have a great sound.

reply to post by divinetragedy79

I have to say that I prefer the home studio. It affords you the luxury of taking your time to do things right and you can do whatever you want in the mix.

I agree, although I've never recorded in a professional studio. I know the acoustics aren't prefect, and I really need a soundproof booth but it's my own personal space where I can do what I want in as timely or as slow a manner as I please.

I like my Ibanez 320 RG. also my Epiphone SG Special. both have great action and have a great sound.

Sweet!

Thanks for the reply


TA