This Is Propaganda This Is Propaganda

I love propaganda , its a great tool !

man is so inventive

Excellent post and very descriptive , maybe you can add to this with a little bit about the history of propaganda !
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reply to post by LiveForever8


You just became my new friend. I totally agree. Not only that but ever schoolchild should have to read that and this one by James Clavell:

The Children's Story

It's a real quick read, but quite powerful. Scary as hell to boot. I remember reading it back in high school and it scared me. Not some wimpy horror story scary that can't happen in real life, but real life OMFGZ type of scary.

In the concluding comment from The Children's Story Afterword, Clavell states the following: "During that day I asked all kinds of people of every age, “You know the 'I pledge allegiance...', but before I could finish, at once they would all parrot it, the words almost always equally blurred. In every case, discovered that not one teacher, ever — or anyone — had ever explained the words to any one of them. Everyone just had to learn it to say it. The Children's Story came into being that day. It was then that I realized how completely vulnerable my child's mind was — any mind for that matter — under controlled circumstances. Normally I write and rewrite and re-rewrite, but this story came quickly — almost by itself. Barely three words were changed. It pleases me greatly because it keeps asking me questions... Questions like what’s the use of 'I pledge allegiance' without understanding? Like why is it so easy to divert thoughts and implant others? Like what is freedom and why is it so hard to explain? The Children’s Story keeps asking me all sorts of questions I cannot answer. Perhaps you can — then your children will..."

Wiki

Get them while they are young(makes me think of Jesus Camp) and you can do whatever you want. Not at all unlike Disney being in the "food" business, with all those cute characters on the packages of absolute crap, all meant for children. Disgusting.

I used to love going to Disneyland as a kid. I will never go there again. I will not give Disney my money. My brother-in-law want's me to watch Wall-e, that's Pixar, right? I ain't a looking it up but I'm pretty sure. I told him no way am I watching that brainwashing crap. Luckily, somehow I managed to change the conversation before it got out of hand.

I have to say I'm not perfect, though. I do watch ESPN and that's affiliated with Disney, so I guess I'm helping them but I do what I can to not give them anything. To hell with Mickey Mouse.

[edit on 8/28/2009 by TheLoony]

Sorry to be a contrarian here -- but the OP is NOT doing a good job of pointing you to what Propaganda really is.

Public Service Announcements are meant to educate the public.

"Use" of Patriotic Symbols? That's marketing.

Just having an expert alone tell you something, isn't propaganda.

>> Propaganda is specific. It's also a bit of a judgement call. When the government is trying to get people to conserve energy, and Jimmy Carter was telling American's to turn down their thermostats and wear sweaters -- THAT was not propaganda.

>> When government money paid for a think tank, called the "Lincoln Group" to put news articles with Rupert Murdoch's newspapers in Australia, liking Saddam Hussein to 9/11 -- and then referencing their own planted stories in Government and News Media reports -- THAT was propaganda.

Planted stories that appear to be true, that are used to manipulate public opinion.

I give you the Heritage Foundation, the Koch Group, and the Cato Institute. Funded by a range of robber barons and the Moonies.


>> When the Pentagon, got a bunch of ex Generals, and coordinated what they were going to say, and presented them NOT AS A GOVERNMENT PSA -- but as concerned individuals who on their own concluded that Iraq was a grave an immanent threat, and the TV Media, with knowledge of the manipulation, colluded with them to put them on the air as experts -- THAT was PROPAGANDA.


>> If you go after ALL marketing, and patriotism -- then you are having to deal with the entire society. OK, I'm in marketing -- it's deceitful and manipulative. Most of our expenditures are on things we don't need until someone makes us think we must have it.

But if you want to do some good -- go after PLANTED and MANIPULATED stories, that pose as news. When you see a commercial or a PSA -- you know the source. But by putting lies into history books, or pretending to be a news story -- people do not have any reference for what is real - and that is the DANGEROUS PROPAGANDA you need to go after.

The brush on this OP is a bit too broad to do much more than pee upwind.

I am certainly not going to be popular here, trying to be in the rational middle ground -- which is not my usual position.

But our society MUST SOCIALLY ENGINEER THE YOUTH. You either find some positive idea like; "share with others, and join the Peace Corp" -- or you tell them what we tell them now; "Make as much money as possible, however you can, and buy all this crap to make you happy."

Disney has only filled the vacuum. If you don't want government oversight (Big Government), then the alternative is Big Business --- OK, we could have people very involved in Government, and running things -- but everybody is afraid of Social Democracies so that isn't likely to happen. The LEFT vs RIGHT dichotomy in America means we can ONLY have Big Government or Big Business. What is collapsing the economy, is Big Business that runs the Big Government for its own benefit. We allowed them in, when all the religious folks stormed the Liberals and Government out of our schools and our conscience. It's no accident that Unions, Environmentalists, Do-Gooders, The ACLU, Peace Activists, and Civil Rights organizations have been the most demonized by the "alleged Liberal Media." They get in the way of Corporate Sovereignty.

The same folks that got us into a war for Contractors, were the same people pushing government money out of PBS.

Now Monsanto, Archer Daniels Midland, DuPont, and a whole list of scheming industrialists, are the principle funders of our Public Education -- and you never hear on NPR the mutations and cancer that come from GM Corn and Soybeans, or the link to allergies.



Disney, by the way, is partially owned by the Saudi royals. They are also HUGE investors in Bush family interests, and the Kaufmann group, which does much of our testing in this country. So guess who is educating our kids and telling everybody how WONDERFUL the Moral Majority was?

Originally posted by LiveForever8

LiveForever8, I just want to say, if this is your work, which I believe it to be, then you should be praised, and as the second person in this thread said, I wish I could give you a trillion flags.

We should all remember every word of this every day of our lives.

Very good work, friend. Thanks for your contribution!

Man that was a helluva good read. This is why all people, at least everyone in college, should take deductive logic--many of the terms you use I wouldn't know of if I hadn't.

reply to post by LiveForever8


so basically what you have here is the basics on rhetoric and the use of logical fallacies and a few other general devices... but all wrapped up in its own rhetoric that comes off as propaganda itself.

propaganda is and arguement used to change someone else's mind? holy broad strokes yourself batman, so you mean, that if I say I disagree and give the reasons why, im spouting propaganda?

Great post.Glenn beck comes to mind when I think of propaganda.

well done , well said , spot on

S & F... an EXCELLENT post!

However, based on the explanations provided, I am not sure that I could agree if ALL propaganda is bad. In the philosophy of relativism, I guess that it could be seen as all bad. However, not everybody subscribes to that philosophy. Most of us believe that there is a basic 'right or wrong' or 'good and evil' in the world.

Let's just say you had a definitive piece of information that would save all of humankind from certain doom. What would you do about it? Everyone gets an idea from time to time. Often, these ideas are symbolized by a light bulb going off. Sticking to this light metaphor, we all must decide whether or not we want to be a lighthouse guiding in the ships at sea or are we flames attracting moths to inevitable doom. More importantly, can we tell the difference?

I absolutely LOVE this. s and f'd, I am posting this elsewhere.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
For a more complete list, turn on fox news.

They're masters at it.

You have mastered "Name calling."

good post man, its good to keep these things in mind, and its so obvious and true

Originally posted by TheLoony
Speaking of propaganda, has anyone read any of these books?

Propaganda - Edward Bernays

I just wanted to point out an important connection...Bernays was Sigmund Freud's nephew. He pretty much just took all of his theories and used them to manipulate the subconscious mind for the financial benefit of the CorpGov.

Public relations is Propaganda's pretty cousin.

More recently, what goes hand in hand, and compliments one another is Political Correctness and Propaganda. Both are thought control devices.

When the very vernacular of the people are under revisions and dictates what you can and cannot say, it has it's intended effect. Making you afraid to openly say what you think or feel! The current situation we are being subjected to, is changing the way we speak. Not only are news stories being banned, but the very words we use to express ourselves as well.

I have collected dictionaries, encyclopedia sets, and maps since the 1960's. I have them dating back to the late 1700's and 1800's. It is amazing how much our language has changed, and how much knowledge is no longer put in print.

I also have to laugh at some of the gross mis-information and distortions that were at one time considered to be fact.


The long and short of it all is; don't take anything or yourself too seriously...
it is all subjective.

Speak your mind freely, openly, and honestly. NEVER let anyone tell what you can or cannot say or think! Tell propagandist's to shove it! Tell the word police to eat you know what! Starts with "S" and ends with "T" with and "H & I" in the middle. (There's always a way to get around "word police progams".)