U.S. helicopter accidentally dumps Afghan ballot boxes

Nothing the US does is by accident, it just seems that way. They are too precise and good at what they do.

reply to post by jd140


well if you knew anything about the subject you would know that you release the load from inside the helicopter and who said there wasnt a ground crew to hook it back up, and it can be hooked up from inside the aircraft also. but yes there was a ground crew to hook it up.

reply to post by refuse_orders


around 50 plastic storage bins were in the container. there is a hole in the bottom of the aircraft above the hook so that it can be hooked up and monitored just for this reason. they all didnt fall out because only one door opend, theyre were 4 on the container, just got lucky with only 4 falling out i guess.

reply to post by IDK88


Why do you care? Is it because you believe Afghanistan has Democracy now? I'm just wondering if you really believe Afghans can choose who ever they want as their leader? Just to give you a hint, think of Hamas when you are answering the question.

The ballot boxes are of no importance, the election is of no importance, America chooses who runs Afghanistan, not Afghans.

Originally posted by gunner18
reply to post by jd140

 

well if you knew anything about the subject you would know that you release the load from inside the helicopter and who said there wasnt a ground crew to hook it back up, and it can be hooked up from inside the aircraft also. but yes there was a ground crew to hook it up.

You would be suprised how much I know about the subject.

But back to the topic. If you say you were there then I guess it was a stroke of luck that you just happened by ATS and signed up as a member jsut a few short days after this story broke.

I mean, what are the chances that someone who saw this entire thing play out would suddenly appear on ATS, with no proof nontheless?

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by IDK88

 

Why do you care? Is it because you believe Afghanistan has Democracy now? I'm just wondering if you really believe Afghans can choose who ever they want as their leader? Just to give you a hint, think of Hamas when you are answering the question.

The ballot boxes are of no importance, the election is of no importance, America chooses who runs Afghanistan, not Afghans.

While your view is popular and may have been true once upon a time, I disagree, Afghanistan does have a democracy, an Afghan style democracy, but a democratic political process nevertheless. When thinking back all the way to January 2006, when Hamas achieved victory in Palestinian elections, I remember that the world was a very different place at that time than it is today...and I think the Western response was valid given Hamas' behavior in June 2007, when they betrayed and murdered their Fatah rivals in Gaza. Despite all that has happened no one is attempting to craft a Palestinian state that doesn't include Hamas...even Israel recognizes that Hamas must be included in any solution to that problem. Even Israel realizes that in Lebanon, Hezbollah must be included. Both of which haven't changed their own charters to recognize Israel's right to exist.

A democratic political process is a machine designed to produce a government representative of its people. America isn't controlling the process, it doesn't have to...America has already aligned itself with the people who the process was built to serve anyway. The Taliban represent just an aspect of the Afghan people, so a Taliban government in Afghanistan is not representative of the people as a whole, but represents the interests of only a small part. The Taliban is welcome to participate in the Afghan political process...if they put down their weapons and show some respect for the other couple dozen millions of their Afghan countrymen. Sure, it will be humiliating for both the Taliban and Islam in general...but they'll live.

The Taliban have chosen to implement its unnatural solution for Afghanistan through Jihad. Is that democratic? They've decided that they know what's best for all the Afghans that don't have an arsenal of weapons. Is this what you are suggesting America is doing?

I don't see that America is so stupid to think that a puppet Afghan government that doesn't serve the interests of Afghan people and a fake election could be in America's or the regions best interest...it just doesn't make any sense. I believe that men act in their own best interest...a free and fair political process in Afghanistan is in the world's best interest. That is the Taliban way of doing things.

Besides all of that...as soon as this minor situation in Afghanistan is resolved...I see a better situation for myself here in America. Dropping ballots makes this whole thing last longer and is irritating to myself and my son.

reply to post by jd140


well i heard the story was on yahoo, so i searched for it and this forum is what i was led to. i read some of the idiotic remarks and tried to reply but i had to be a member, so i went through that so i could educate some of you. and obviously you do not know much about the subject or you wouldnt have to have it explained at a fourth grade level.

reply to post by IDK88


and let me reinforce that the ballots were allready counted

reply to post by gunner18


and let me reinforce...all of that has been mentioned. It's not about the impact the event will have on the outcome of the election, which will probably require a run-off election anyway, but about the quality of the product that America is selling to the people of Afghanistan.

It's an issue that can be seized upon to illustrate the inherent flaws in democracy, foremost among them election rigging... to create political fallout as a result of perceptions not necessarily reality. The longer that the people Afghanistan don't feel invested in the government, the longer the war continues and the longer America continues to have to fight it. When the people have their government...they'll fight the Taliban themselves and we can go home.

While you've been deeply involved in Afghanistan...elections are occuring elsewhere throughout the world; also places where America is involved. Iran...disputed with bloodshed. Myanmar...possibly not fair. Kenya...disputed with bloodshed. Zimbabwe...disputed with bloodshed. I suppose you are an expert in these areas as well. All sources of instability...instability that reverberates throughout all political systems.

When these elections go smoothly and without missing ballots, the people feel empowered and get behind the governments they created. Men with guns become less necessary. Get it?

I then went on to suggest that it seems that the end of the war is not what some people want...



[edit on 29-8-2009 by IDK88]

reply to post by IDK88


No please don't twist this discussion to Hamas's actions or Hezbollah's actions. That is another discussion as a whole, we can discuss that later. Hamas was only an example of 'Democracy' which if the 'elected' is not on the West or America's side then they will be left starving, blockades etc etc. Afghanistan is occupied so no need for those type of actions, there is easier ways.

Your argument is that the world has changed, is it by any chance have anything to do with a black man being raised as a leader in America? Do you seem to think that just because a different race is the supposed leader of America, anything will change?

Let's go back to Afghanistan, do you think Mullah Omar can stand in the election? Do you think Hekmatiyar can stand in the election? etc etc. These people were the heroes of Afghanistan and now labeled as terrorists due to American interests, you can't do that and get away with it my friend, it doesn't work like that.

Now you seem to think Afghanistan can choose who ever they like, here is my side of the argument:
Afghans can't choose who ever they like because any one America doesn't want in power can be simply labeled as terrorist and removed from the equation, as easy as that. You seem to think that America with all their sacrifice in Afghanistan would allow it to be controlled by people who hate America? The fact of the matter is that more than half of Afghanistan hate America, this has been shown in polls.

Afghan election is a real farce and a fraud by American occupying forces. The USA is trying to justify its aggression on a foreign soil by creating a facade of democracy by pretending the most unrealistic democracy in a tribal country where 90% of the people hate Americans. America has done this exercise in very many countries like Iraq recently and in Iran in 1953 by replacing the democratically elected Govt, and placing the filthy monarch Shah who was ready to lick American boots to stay in power until a real peoples revolution the best in the world after the French revolution, made him run and the Americans refused to give six food ground as his burial place, that was American gratitude who allowed them to suck all the resources by making a few rich and the majority poor. Why not America talk about democracy in Egypt where a ruthless despot has been holding on to power for the past 27 years against the wishes of 98% of the Egyptian people, a real looter, immoral thug.

reply to post by oozyism


Honestly, we have differences in understanding about what is happening here on this planet, at present and throughout history.

The Shah...ready to lick boots? The Iranian Revolution was an Oscar worthy dramatic performance. Do you really think the Shah was overthrown? Seriously our differences are so profound that it is impossible for me to bridge the gap.

The world didn't change because of Obama...the world changed years ago, Obama is just a minor example of that change.

The people who put America in Afghanistan have lost power and are dying off now, but since we are there it would be nice to see them go ahead and finish the job.

Mohammed Omar can't run for office because he'd be shot on site for the things he's done. Remember what he did to Afghanistan's last pre-Taliban President? He was tortured, castrated, killed and his his body hung from a traffic light.

Do you really think that's going to go unpunished? Oh yeah they are Taliban and above vengence.

reply to post by IDK88


You seem to think the world has changed while I believe otherwise. You shouldn't listen to words but examine actions. Most demean Iran for words that come out of their leader's mouth, but the truth is that 'actions speak much more than words'.

There are still drone attacks in Pakistan, and yet you seem to think the world has changed.
There is still occupation and you seem to think the world has changed.
There is still torture and you seem to think the world has change.
There is still full support for Israel unconditionally and you seem to think the world has changed.
There is still full support for the dictators of Middle East and you seem to think the world has changed.

Am I making these things up? Because Obama stated 'change' does it really mean change?

Let's not forget that Bush's message was also change, or do we all have amnesia? Do we forgive and forget that fast?

If there was change then Bush would be on trial.
If there was change then Dick would be on trial.
If there was change then the occupation would be stopped.
If there was change then the sanctions against Cuba would be stopped.
If there was change then the sanctions against Iran would be stopped.
etc...

Actions speak more than words.

As I said previously most of Afghanistan hate America, if they were allowed to vote for whoever they want they wouldn't vote for American sympathizers hence Karzai.

The election is a Sham, they only allow American lovers to run for the big job.

Mullah Omar, you really need to see the documentary on him to see what kind of a man he was. He wasn’t a politician, he was merely a Mullah who stepped up against the warlords who run Afghanistan now and ran Afghanistan after the departure of USSR. The only place where Karzai has power is Kabul, how is that Democracy? The rest of the country is controlled by war lords, and Karzai had to buy the warlords in order to gain votes.

You seem to think you know much about Afghanistan but the fact of the matter is that you sir never lived there, I did, infact I lived there in the time of Taliban. When America came to bomb the place we moved to Pakistan refugee camp(in peshawer). After that we managed to go to New Zealand. do some resreach please, I beg you. Don’t just fall for the propaganda, America spends 150 million in only in Afghanistan for propaganda. America is another question.

reply to post by oozyism


I won't assume that you are uninformed. Instead I will just assume that we have two different views as to how this war is to be fought and different opinions as to what the world should look like when all of this has run its course.

The world has changed in a different way. This war is no longer about political or religious differences...it is certainly about spiritual differences. The souls of men are on trial...all men and not just the ones you particularly dislike.

When all of this began...some people really wanted this to be all about legal, political, cultural or geographic differences, but it has now become a true trial...for your eternal soul.

You tell me about all of the things you've been through and all the things American politicians have done and how the Afghan feels about the American and about the Iranian. All irrelevant...all mundane aspects of the material world.

You should understand that ALL are standing before the Throne and being tried; even you and me and all we believe.

If Bush or Cheney are bad people...they'll be punished...if Ahmadinejad and the Iranians are so good...they'll be rewarded. That is not for me to determine. Those Americans in Afghanistan didn't put themselves there, they answered a call. I just think they should be focused on completing the job they say they want to do. If they are over there doing what you suggest...that's ultimately on them. It would be nice to see them just do what they say and then leave, for their own sake.

I live in Chicagoland...which happens to be hyper-diverse. When you tell me Afghans hate Americans, from what I see then and according to you...Afghans hate themselves.

You shouldn't believe that this is all about how awful Americans are...you will soon discover if you don't already know...this is about everyone. The world has changed.

I too have had my own challenging experiences since all these began and I now feel confident and comfortable standing naked before God and men and being unashamed.