Ignoring Genocide Part I: The Holocaust

Ignoring Genocide Part I: The Holocaust

www.ahherald.com

A point-in-case is a growing movement known as “holocaust revisionism,” a vile ideology which is spreading across the internet like a racist plague. Those involved in revisionism, which is really a synonym for “denial,” often masquerade under the guise of scholarly research. True scholars examine the Holocaust to determine exactly how many innocent people died, and what methods were used in the mass extermination programs. These are the real researchers, whose work helps thwart future genocides by spreading awareness of the Nazi abominations, and the dangers of scapegoating and racial

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So, what do you think? I assume most of you probably know that the holocaust DID happen, but what is your opinion of why so many genocides have happened since and why we continue to ignore history? With "INGLORIOUS BASTERDS" now in theaters, everyone had NAZIS on their mind, and the movie glorifies killing NAZIS (not such a bad thing imho). So: Holocaust big hoax or real tragedy? Ignorance: deliberate or subconscious?

www.ahherald.com
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i think it ignorant to jail someone for questioning the official story.

my opinion is that the figures were probably blown way out of proportion, but we will never know because its illegal to question the official story (in some countries), thats freedom for ya

[edit on 24-8-2009 by purplemonkey]

I'd prefer to question the motives of why TBTB give the so-called "revisionists" so much attention.

I'd like to think it goes much deeper than "officials" being "disgusted"...

I'd like to know why questioning the "official story" is racist, and why disputing the figures makes you a denier. I do not deny that the holocaust happened, but I find the discrepancy in numbers of dead between the various groups interesting enough to warrant some questioning. Playing the race card against those who do not agree with you only says that perhaps you have something to hide.

I also feel strongly about he issue of Generational Genocide, here is a thread I started on the subject that you might find useful:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

People will always question history, even when the history in question is a genocide. We have seen this with the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, the Holocaust and even the more recent genocide during the Balkan conflicts. I think people should be allowed to think or say anything they like but they should certainly be aware of how insulting their beliefs are to the families of the victims. It's an issue any historian without a mainstream view of events should handle with extreme care, to say the least.

Originally posted by quackers
I'd like to know why questioning the "official story" is racist, and why disputing the figures makes you a denier. I do not deny that the holocaust happened, but I find the discrepancy in numbers of dead between the various groups interesting enough to warrant some questioning. Playing the race card against those who do not agree with you only says that perhaps you have something to hide.

It's common practice in todays society to label others as racist when they don't agree with you. IF the allies did lie about the holocaust then it was done to prevent the nazis from taking power again in germany or anywhere else for that matter, because if everyone believes that the holocaust did happen then no one would support the nazis if they tried to gain power again.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that alot of jews did die but if the government have lied about it just like how they lie about everything else, Then i wouldn't be surprised.


[edit on 24-8-2009 by Alien Mind]

The racist question was rhetoric, but I appreciate the reply. The problem I find is this, the Nazis did not only kill Jews, yet they seem to have hijacked the holocaust to the point where it "theirs" (they also seem to be it's universal guardian), and the basis for that is the numbers. I think it only reasonable people question the numbers.

I'm not convinced on the scenario you mention simply because the Nazis killed more than enough people to have the rest of the world hate them, without there needing to be 6 million dead innocent Jews. Now, if the 6 million figure is exaggerated, then the reason lies in something else, and I believe that would be to create the illusion of the Jews being persecuted. The goal would be to make people feel sorry for them and give them something, oh, like Israel.

I think this is where the race card get played. It is not ok to suggest that what we all know as the holocaust might in fact be nothing more than a fabrication. If certain people decided to use the holocaust as a pawn, then that is an act of the most utter disrespect to the people who did die at the hands of the Nazis, and if for that reason alone, everyone should question that particular episode in history. By no means is that denying the holocaust.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by quackers]

Indian Genocide by British = 29 million , Ukraine by Stalin 7 million, gulags etc -

I'm 100% sure it happened, what I'm skeptical of is that 6 million Jews were killed, and what I'm angry about is how this genocide is considered to be way more tragic than every other genocide, including ones proven to have had more fatalities.

reply to post by Klemperer


Being the touchy subject it is I think most people do not like to talk about it. Those that do like to talk about it are usually on extreme opposite beliefs.

As in most cases with strong opinions, it seems those that shout the loudest get heard the most.

I think there are only a few important facts that should remain in the minds of everyone.

1. Were there concentration camps? Yes.

2. Did these camps entertain torture? Yes.

3. Were these camps based on an ideology? Yes

Who and how many died are of the least of importance in my opinion. Considering there were a plethora of nationalities, the only thing that should be of significance is the fact they were humans.

I have read arguments asserting it is the allied forces that caused more deaths than Nazis due to the bombings of train tracks that brought food to the camps. No food. No nutrition. Result: the grossly malnutritioned human bodies that filled in the mass graves we have all seen pictures of. Is there a point there? Maybe. But who forced those individuals to maintain a slave labor force and ghettos? Who forced the nazis to build such camps and keep people there? No one. An act as simple as opening a door would have saved many, many lives.

I have heard first hand accounts of the poor people that endured hell while being kept there against their will. These people deserve to be heard. They deserve some sort of retribution. They deserve justice. To deny their stories would be almost as worse as commiting the acts themselves.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs

I have heard first hand accounts of the poor people that endured hell while being kept there against their will. These people deserve to be heard. They deserve some sort of retribution. They deserve justice. To deny their stories would be almost as worse as commiting the acts themselves.

I agree. What KIND of retribution though?

I think executing the old Nazis, as satisfying as it might sound, is pointless.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Their "justice" is done. Their justice was served after the thousands of Candian, British, US, Russian etc. etc. troops and civilians lost their lives fighting the Nazis.

Their justice was served even more after the Nuremberg Trials.

It's been 60 years, what other justice is there to be had? With whom? Anybody that gets in the way of zealous ideologies?

I find this "thirst for blood and justice" 60 years after the fact, still alive and kicking, quite unsettling. As there are no more Nazis.

Stop stirring the pot. Stop creating monsters.

Nazis killing prisoners during WWII proved to be more effective than moving them all. To be honest I doubt Hitler really cared so much about the Jews and what they represent as opposed to his own nationalist ideals. Whatever he said about the Jews was to gain support from his people and it was the German people who had their own experiences with Jews who came up with their own conclusions.

I'm not saying it was right to kill them all off instead of just kicking them out of the country, but those were different times when technology was new and ideals pure. People can call the Nazis evil but I see them as being a very powerful empire with a strong base, and they lost because of their own ignorance of believing that they were better than other people in the world and that certain groups were "subhuman". If they were not so aggressive in their ideals, then the Nazis would probably still be around today.

History repeats itself all the time, but people like to believe that nobody can do anything bad like the Nazis when they should actually open their eyes to what the world is and see that horrible and unsung things happen all the time to all people by all people. The Nazis were not aliens, they were not monsters, they were humans just like the rest of us.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

reply to post by Donnie Darko


i didnt mean necessarily more justice or retribution today.

I dont know what the victims of the nazi camps were given after they were freed...I would say germany had a alot to pay for the years after ww2...

hopefully whatever could have been done was done...

I am not at all saying anybody presently owes anything to any of the victims of the nazi party... including germany...

it will be a sad day when people no longer question the facts surrounding an event, especially one as profound as ww2 and the "genocide" of the jews, jewish people rely on opposition to keep the memory alive, what the nazi's did was a terrible thing, however, we have all become more aware of the theatre of politics and the games that the elite play, it is as important to question as it is to remember, and let us not forget that the nazis learnt most of what they did from the american eugenics movement of the same period when thousands were sterilized against their will, they just took it to the next step. the jewish people have been targeted throughout time in all countries around the world for their financial prowess and dominance and their not always healthy way of business towards non jews, they have never challenged their own ideals and maybe they shouldn't. if we are to live in a free world then we should never be prevented from hating who we like, people can label people racist or anti semetic, bigots or anything that they like, but if we disallow personal opinion it all starts becoming a little to orwellian for my tastes.

an old joke i allways like sums it up for me, It's 1984 and the thought police are knocking on your door, think "out"

Lets cut the semantics regarding the Holocaust. It happened and there are verifiable facts to back it up. The Jews where largely non-combatants in that conflict, and as such, they where easy prey for Hitler and his nationalist overtures to the German people. Yet, years after the atrocity, academics and politicians try to refute the Holocaust and the seriousness of it for all humanity. These people should receive scorn and indignation from society. Mass murder is still mass murder regardless of the numbers involved. So say for instance, 50,000 people are killed does that mean it is not ethnic cleansing or genocide because it is not in the millions? I don't see the logic behind the numbers game regarding this issue, because even if ten people are brutally murdered it can be considered a mass murder.

The Holocaust is verifiable fact and one can look no further than the happenings at the Wansee Conference of 1942. Here, is where top Nazi brass gathered to put in writing and policy Hitler's "Final Solution." So any speculation about the event is mute, because as plain as day; the events at the Wansee Conference ingrain the issue with verifiable government documentation. This is not an indictment of the Germans with this post but an indictment of all who partake in genocide and mass killings.

reply to post by Klemperer


Obviously the holocaust happened and it was one of those things that shows the horrible things that humanity is capable of.

But seeing as Auschwitz lowered the number of people killed in its Camp by almost 2.5 million after the Russians released the death registry list in 89, it allows for an argument. Any of the people who mention this are said to be deniers.

I understand it is obviously a very touchy subject and probably best off left alone because the numbers really make no difference overall in the grand scheme of things. It would be good for those facts to be entertained but the "Anti Semite" phrase is still fresh in the minds of too many people.

I seriously doubt the Holocaust!
www.germarrudolf.com...