I have a question for some of you creationists-why do you find it so insulting to be related to apes

reply to post by Lasheic


lol I'll admit to being a bit facetious with that comment. But I think you agree with the sentiment that Conclusion’s, erm conclusion, that “there is nothing new under the sun” or that science hasn’t done far more than religion or spirituality is patent nonsense.

reply to post by Lasheic


Define science? In my own words;

Science is the human's study of everything celestial and terrestrial within the constraints of the humans ability to comprehend. It is the human's way of trying to understand the world around them.

[edit spelling]

the time period in which evolution can occur is misunderstood, so in truth, darwin is wrong.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by kcire

 

Lol. So you despise people who believe in God. Well i guess you have to have a reason. For me its like this. Science is food for the brain and Religion is food for the mind/heart.

I do not despite people/individuals who believe in one or another...I despite 'religion'. That is a totally other situation. Please do not put words in my mouth.

The 'church' and all other likewise forms of organized religion...these institutions just make me wonder and sometimes even angry, sick and frustrated.

I may have stated my following example earlier here on ATS but I just present it again:

If a man is raised by wolves in a far away, desolated forest and would never in his whole life come into contact with humans...would this man in the end believe in some form of higher being? A god? He might be afraid, he will have happy moments and he will have sad moments...but will he be religious? I think not.

Simply because to me 'religion' seems a human-invention. A way to control the masses.

Originally posted by Conclusion
You sit upon your throne, throwing judgment at men and women for believing. For believing in something better. It offends your senses to think that God would not reveal his self to you.

I do not throw judgement, I always wonder and ask...because I do realize that I know nothing.

'Believing in something better' sounds logical when living in some parts of the world...I am actually pretty happy with everything around me and how I experience life. I know this is a luxurious position to talk from, but why do I need to 'believe' it could be better? I am here discussing something with you on the internet while enjoying a little music in the background and sippin' from a juice...I would offend my whole way of life if I always 'believed' it could be better. So I just do not do that.

If I was living in some country of the Third World...Yeah then I would believe all day that there must be something better...It would be my hobby!

But at this moment in my life I cannot and may not complain...Sorry 'god'/religion but I am happy as is, don't need ya...Or do you, Conclusion, live a life in which you are so troubled you need guidance or help from 'god'?

Also I am not sitting on any throne, I just sit on a plain and simple second-hand office chair wondering 'why I do not just believe' and someone next to me simply does. Aren't we at the same moment in time?!

Originally posted by Conclusion
Until you have peace in your heart toward all your fellow man, you will never know the truth until the end.

Is this a quote from somewhere? 'The truth'? Who's lying?

'Peace in my heart'? Please...this is ATS...not some hippie_love_peace_flower gathering. What does this actually mean? 'Peace in my heart'? I don't have peace in my heart when I do not believe in a god? Silly rabbit! What a nonsense...

At least I do not have 'peace in my heart' as a goal in life, because there is nothing wrong with the peace in my heart. Religious people (the one's that spend their whole life following certain rules to get into heaven) ar quite selfish. Their whole life they are busy gettin aproval from a god so they get 'rewarded' with some priveleges when they die.

If someone like this 'helps' someone else...it is only to help themselves getting into 'heaven' or whatever other 'reward'.

Originally posted by Conclusion
Call it what you will, but if you do not believe in a higher power then do not think of yourself as higher than others because of their belief.

...I do not think of myself as 'higher than others' like I explained earlier. When it comes to this I think we are all equally useless...man or woman, religious or not, black or white, rich or poor etc. etc..

reply to post by ShiningSabrewolf


I have been called fr worse things than an ape by creationists right here on ATS.

What's wrong with being descended from a quite affable intelligent creature, as apposed to a psychopathic homophobic, misogynistic, masochistic, indolent ignoramus that lives somewhere in the sky ?

Surely it is better to have a great granddad called Galen than a step dad called Dr Lecter ?

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
Man, everyone needs to stop grouping everyone else up into overly broad and generalized groups.

You are absolutely right! I will try to eliminate this from my way of thinking...

Problem is that I am often alone in the way I think about certain things...so automatically everybody else is 'them'...somehow I cannot escape this way of looking at some situations.

And...btw...when someone says 'I am a christian' how is it possible not to generalize him into a 'Christian'?


P.S. were is my Avatar image? In my profile it's there, but inhere I do not see it? Didn't know were else to put this question...

[edit on 25-8-2009 by kcire]

[edit on 25-8-2009 by kcire]

reply to post by Melissa101

Humans do not have body hair like a monkey, monkey’s do not have facial or head hair like humans. This is just one example of many that I think you can research without me drawing a complete picture.

If I remember correctly gorillas have the same hair as human pubic hair ?

What is interesting is that a god would seem to have created a variety of primates with some spare parts from humans.

What a wasteful entity this would appear to be and equally unimaginative.

My wife sometimes calls me a big ape. I have been called a drunk monkey. I've been accused of laughing like a chimp. It doesn't bother me. I am a creationist. I guess I am not the type of creationist that some people mean when they call people "creationist", in disparaging terms, at times. For me this type of discussion amuses me. There's no answer, yet. There is no "truth", yet. Asking people why they might be insulted for being considered as having evolved from apes. LOL. To me, that's like me asking someone who is an atheist, why they are athiestic. LOL. I don't care. I have the truth inside me. You just haven't discovered it, yet, so it's not truth to you.

Edited for spelling. I hope it worked.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by kyred]

Originally posted by kyred
I have the truth inside me. You just haven't discovered it, yet, so it's not truth to you.

Please enlighten me...what is 'the truth' to you? What is inside you?

Firstly im not a creationist im a nihalist, but i do believe in evolution (But like all theorys it still has holes. Give them time they'll plug em.)

But i understand the problem being called apes.
You have to understand that when you base your whole world view on a 2000 year old view. And the rambling of both yound and old of a majority of the sociaty then you react when anyone says your closer to somthing they see in zoo then god.
A closeness with god is conforting. think of it like trying to take a small childs security blanket.

(No offence)

I say we ensure the information is there for those tha want it, but you can force it on those that dont.

reply to post by ShiningSabrewolf

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/935b4c5d143b.jpg[/atsimg]Well, I do find it insulting, for the simple reason I am not a monkey or ape.
One should call a spade for a spade, it is that simple..

It is like getting called pig, I'm no pig either, so I take that as an insult too.

But, thats just me, I know why and how we came to be, soo !!
No, I will not answer any wierd comments about it !!

Wow, I leave this place for one night and it grows to 6 pages! And most of it is very interesting indeed, I have just read through it all and have learned a lot, so thank all of you for your responses.

OT, in response to your post... I'm not going to bother except to clarify a few things
1. I am using a phone because I am moving house, I have no computer attached internet atm
2. I am not a guy
3. My personal beliefs have nothing to do with this OP. I am simply being curious.

reply to post by kyred


Why? What's wrong with asking an atheist why they are atheistic? I am a vegetarian and people ask me why I made that choice all the time, it's human nature to be curious

reply to post by ChemBreather

Well, I do find it insulting, for the simple reason I am not a monkey or ape.

You are an ape alright.

And its not like beeing called a pig.. pigs are a genus of even-toed ungulates within the family Suidae. I can see why you're not a pig.



An ape is any of various primates with short tails or no tail at all, but maybe your not a primate either? Eh, ChemBreather? You're not a Hominidae?

Originally, the great apes was restricted to humans and their extinct relatives, so even if we were seperated, youd still be an ape



The only thing special is our developed brain, how we are aware of beeing aware. But everything else is like an animal. You live in the body of an ape. Like ALL the other great apes, you recognize your reflection as an image of yourself. Thats a rarity among animals.

Now look what you did.. all this talk has made me crave banana.. i hope we have some.

A few of the comments I've read don't seem to show an understanding of evolution very well. It doesn't say that we evolved from the current primates. It says we and the current primates (specifically our closest relatives) had the same ANCESTORS. You take an earlier species, split its family tree however many ways, and one of the paths leads to humans. Our brains set us apart from the rest of the animals, but I don't see it as much more than a survival tool.

There are traits that are believed to have been started by a single individual. A single mutation can be traced back through the population, to a specific region. How can a single person from so long ago have such a huge impact on us today? Simple. Reproduction. This individual survived and reproduced, passing their genes on to his/her offspring. They survived and passed their genes on. It goes on and on, even now. Blue eyes? Mutation. A deficiency of the OCA2 gene. Change sweeping through a species, even if only part of it. Some help us survive better, some are harmful and get weeded out (though... I doubt that's working well in the modern world), and some are completely pointless. More colorful eyes might make a person seem slightly more appealing, if all you ever see is brown eyes. Just like blond hair.

Finally, look at a middle aged over-weight man (who isn't trying to be a male model) at the beach with his shirt off and tell me we're not hairy beasts

Why do apes get their own identity while we are only understood in terms of apes? I personally don't think it makes sense that we were once something else and became what we are. I believe that ever since we were in the primordial soup that we are now what we always have been and apes are what they have always been.

By the reasoning that we came from apes then another human like group should arrive at some time in the future...well what are they now? Shouldn't it be possible to see what animals will eventually reach the level of what humans are today at some point in the future? If evolution is true, then shouldn't it still be true?

In a high school biology class, the teacher told me that evolution no longer occurs. I took that to mean that evolution never occured and that it is a crock. It's not insulting to be evolved from apes, its insulting to be treated as if we have the intelligence of apes as humans.

reply to post by Totakeke

God created the universe, why couldn't He have created a man first with X and Y chromosomes and then create a woman with two X chromosomes? Saying that God can create a universe but not create a man with an X and Y chromosome before making a woman with two Xs is like saying that you can read "Gone with the Wind" but not "Junie B. Jones".

Dude, why is it you are unable to apply this kind of reasoning to the rest of the bibles stories ?

God said "let us knock out the man in our image" If god can create a universe on his own he surely wouldn't need anyone else as a template for a mere human clay model.

And by the way why would god or the Elohim require a belly button ?

And another thing - If your god made man then he certainly screwed up when it came to a penis. Thousands of years after making man god notices that, in his haste to get everything done by sunday and have a break. He forgot to trim off the excess on a mans penis so needed to get it sorted as it was somehow causing a problem.

God then tells man "Hey dude I run out of magik dust to trim your dicks, do me a favour, find some sharpish type rocks and nip off the ends for me. In a couple of thousand years I'll inspire some random person (maybe a muslim) to invent a surgical scalpel and a puppy tail trimmer so it won't hurt so much "

reply to post by Jomina


Zacharia Sitchin makes this point in his books. He claims that there is ample evidence in many of the old historical religious documents that support a theory of an alien race coming to planet earth.

They manipulated the DNA of the spes to create a "worker bee" type and later added the mitocondrial DNA so they could replicate themselves and they used these "humans" to do the work for the aliens in extracting minerals from the earth.

James Rollins in one of his novels, uses the example of the tests done by the Nazis that demonstrate how evolution takes place and the time inherent in the process.

The Bible does not have to be wrong, in fact it is probably very accurate, but only if you understand the nomanclature. We read it as a literal statement, but God created, it does not say that it happened in a short time, a day was a period of time.

Intelligence is inherent in all things, as the intelligence spirals up so the organism evolves into a higher out picturing of itself.

As both theories are presented, both have holes. This is what I love about science it also is ever evolving as more evidence is uncovered.

I am a Spiritual Scientist and delve into areas rarely studied. But all science is about uncovering truth and should encourage us. Sadly most science today is stilted and used politically and very few scientists actually want to discover truth.

But finding truth helps us to evolve to higher and better beings then we are today. So we can be created and evolve.

Studies done in labs have not proven however that one species can evolve into another, at least while being watched.

reply to post by kcire


P.S. were is my Avatar image? In my profile it's there, but inhere I do not see it? Didn't know were else to put this question...

I had this problem also. I had to watch the create your avatar video. It explains itself ok. Hope it helps.

reply to post by moocowman


He made it that way to show that man comes from God and woman comes from man....hence wo...man. Which means Woe unto man ....just kidding.