Will G.E. be the end of Gays?

[disclaimer]I pose this question as an academic one; This is not a debate on the "perceived cause" of homo-sexuality, nor is it an intended discussion on morality. This thread assumes the argument that "being gay" is not a choice, it is a genetic truth.[/disclaimer]

With the advent of, and use therein, of genetic engineering, there has been much debate on the morality of it abd it's application. Many think we are "playing God", or worse, "playing god", and that we are born as we are intended. That argument aside (with no disrespect intended), there is no doubt that the idea of eliminating disease, predisposition to addiction, and genetic defects, are all noble ideas that must be entertained in our modern society.
The idea that the altering, or "perfecting", of our offspring will be limited to the above options is a naive thought. There is no doubt in my mind that within a hundered years of it's use, we will see a model for DNA that is the most "ideal".
I would go so far as to say we will see a "hybrid" of the worlds races and traits that lead to a "perfect" model of humans. (this is eugenics, I know) I don't believe that the intent will be malevolent, as I think there will be a general consensus that we have a duty to start off on the best foot possible, and no one will want to be left behind.
So where does this leave Gays and Lesbians?
I am not implying their lifestyles to be "imperfect", but merely recognizing the scientific fact that there must be a "alteration" of their DNA when compared to straight people.
Explanation; Gay people say that their lifestyle is not a "choice", that they are "born this way". (no argument here) BUT, gay people are "flawed" in one way, and that is their choice to avoid procreation. By having sex with the same sex, regardless of scientific advances in fertility, you differ from the reproducing members of your society. In other words, your DNA has some change in it that eliminates the desire to propegate your species, which by very nature would be a "retardation" of your DNA when compared to "straights".
Although there are many "retardations" that all people have, so isn't that the point of G.E.? To eliminate these "flaws" so as to create the "perfect model"?
So, as my Question is posted in the title, does Genetic Engineering mean the end of Gays?

Homosexuality is based on genetics olny by the fact that it is preditermined when areas of the brain and body that release chemicals are activated.

When these areas are activated it is then up to the self to decide what these chemicals and feelings mean. Homosexuality is 100% nature. Its also not a choice... its an inevitible creation of a sexual ideal forced upon the self by chemicals in you brain.

Its like being mad at the transformers for turning into animals instead of cars for part of the cartoon series. They just landed on a planet and scanned the surroundings to create a physical ideal that is forced upon them by programming.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Wertdagf]

reply to post by TheTruthShallFreeYou


No, I highly doub that would ever become the case.

If you have blue eyes and I have brown eyes, our DNA is different. Your DNA is retarted because you have blue eyes, and mine is because I have grey eyes.

Genetic diversity is what CREATES life. If everyone had the same DNA then it would be impossible for us to reproduce effectively. This is why GE will never become the norm in our society, at least not on the level you are talking about.

Sure we might do it to eliminate genes that cause cancer or mental disorders. By why remove homosexuality? To tell you the truth in nature, homosexuality is usually present when the population becomes to big, and curb is needed.

Now I am a homosexual, and I am not saying that the reason why I feel the way I do, as far as I am concerned it is a part of me and not a choice. But again, GE will never be used for trivial things such as homosexuality.

~Keeper

Originally posted by TheTruthShallFreeYou
[disclaimer]I pose this question as an academic one; This is not a debate on the "perceived cause" of homo-sexuality, nor is it an intended discussion on morality. This thread assumes the argument that "being gay" is not a choice, it is a genetic truth.[/disclaimer]

Although there are many "retardations" that all people have, so isn't that the point of G.E.? To eliminate these "flaws" so as to create the "perfect model"?
So, as my Question is posted in the title, does Genetic Engineering mean the end of Gays?

This is a tough post. It either presumes that gays will willingly allow a 'gay gene' to recede by GE or not propagating...or it assumes a programme of eugenics. Though being gay in this society can encompass a lot of difficulties...would a gay individual work at preventing his/her offspring from sharing those genetic traits?

I donno...not if one is happy. Being gay has always gone through various stages of acceptance, and the straight world is finally coming around to losing its 'fear' of homosexuality.

Though some of the wording in the OP makes me wince, there is an interesting philosophical question here, and I hope some of the gay members of ATS will chime in.

Do you honestly think that the god-fearing government will not jump on this chance to eliminate the gays? They're already Hitler-esque nazis as they as is. And how do you know if there isn't a gene that could cause people to be mind slaves?

We are born with our ginetics almost at random, and that's how they should be. Just because we can play God, doesn't mean we should.

Originally posted by The Killah29
Do you honestly think that the god-fearing government will not jump on this chance to eliminate the gays? They're already Hitler-esque nazis as they as is. And how do you know if there isn't a gene that could cause people to be mind slaves?

We are born with our ginetics almost at random, and that's how they should be. Just because we can play God, doesn't mean we should.

Amen to the playing of God...and let's not forget that there are a lot of Gays in government as well.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Sorry for the "wince inducing language".
I support personal freedom, and the wording was intended to be as inoffensive as possible.

HOMosexuality is either genetic or nurtured. why is it that only todays society have a problem with gays? before the onset of christianity and Islam being gay wasnt considered morally wrong.

IF you dont think homosexuality can be nurtured then take a good look at the ancient spartans....

Let's say that homosexuality could be removed from humans by genetic tampering...

1. What good would it do?
2. What makes you so sure that at some point in the future ALL babies will be born after genetic manipulation, and not via the good old natural way of doing things, i.e. boy meets girl, boy loves girl, baby is made and born outside lab conditions...?

Originally posted by TheTruthShallFreeYou
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Sorry for the "wince inducing language".
I support personal freedom, and the wording was intended to be as inoffensive as possible.

I can tell you're on tiptoes here trying not to cause offence, and I applaud that effort. I think I simply have a keener ear and a little more experience in presenting 'neutrally-weighted' language. Though you wouldn't know it from some of my political posts...

S&F for an interesting thread!

I'm not convinced that the condition is genetic.
As I understand it they have one sex in the head and another in the body.
I view ithis as a birth defect; that something went wrong in the early days of gestation.
Therefore I don't think it is possible by genetic engineering to eliminate the problem.
It would more likely have to be done by early testing of the developing embryo.
Elimination of the trait is desireable from the point of view that these people are usually very confused as children and I can't believe that they are ever happy with themselves. I know many do profess to be happy and live productive lives, but I have to wonder what goes on in their heart of hearts.
It is cruel to allow them to be born if it can be prevented.

reply to post by TheTruthShallFreeYou


I also applaud the effort.

Very well written as far as I am concerned. And I am usually the one to get offended when Gay oriented threads are presented.

So well done, and this should prove to be a very constructive conversation.

~Keeper

reply to post by OhZone


Well I am perfectly happy with who I am and would never want to be anybody else. Even if given the choice I would not be straight.

The cruel thing would be to deny a child any sort of attribute that does not affect his over all health in any way.

~Keeper

Originally posted by OhZone
I view ithis as a birth defect; that something went wrong in the early days of gestation. Therefore I don't think it is possible by genetic engineering to eliminate the problem.
It would more likely have to be done by early testing of the developing embryo.
Elimination of the trait is desireable from the point of view that these people are usually very confused as children and I can't believe that they are ever happy with themselves. I know many do profess to be happy and live productive lives, but I have to wonder what goes on in their heart of hearts.
It is cruel to allow them to be born if it can be prevented.

It is interesting to juxtapose this post with those that ask how the Germans
could have fallen for Hitler and his shenanigans.
Eugenics. It is indeed a slippery slope....

You are assuming much in your OP...

A lot of people, whether or not it's the majority is another question, are very uncomfortable with the very idea of genetic engineering...I'm amongst that group. For the moment, GE of humans is the stuff, thankfully, of bad science fiction...and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Given mankinds hit or miss grasp of ethics I can only pray that it remains the stuff of scifi...but alas, that seems all too unlikely.

I freely admit to being very paranoid where this topic is concerned...the possible misuse by those wishing to create the "perfect" human...at the cost of what makes us human, our differences.

Genetic engineering run amok would/could mean the end of more than just genetic homosexuality...

Just my humble two cents.

reply to post by OhZone

Elimination of the trait is desireable from the point of view that these people are usually very confused as children and I can't believe that they are ever happy with themselves. I know many do profess to be happy and live productive lives, but I have to wonder what goes on in their heart of hearts.
It is cruel to allow them to be born if it can be prevented.

Ever stopped to think why a homosexual child might be unhappy? Ever think maybe it is scoieties attitude to them...?
No, what is cruel is to perpetuate a society that condemns such children. I expect you might be unhappy if you had to pretend to be someone other than you are. And yet you call for death...geez
Remove the total ignorance that creates oppression and disgust and fear at anything and anyone even remotely different and maybe everyone would get a chance at being happy.

I have always thought that the reason that they were attracted to other men was because their brains were wired to be female. And that seems logical.
The gay men that I have known were effeminate.

I worked for a while with a gay man, and we got along really well.
However aside from the work, our personal interactions always left me disconcerted. I am looking at a man who is talking like a woman and to swing the pendulum the other way, he lights up like an Xmas tree when I walk into the room. Seems he had a testostrone rush there for a minute.
He frequently did unrquested favors for me just like a straight guy would do. He even opened doors for me. And no, he never suggested taking the relationship beyond workplace freindship.

reply to post by OhZone

It is cruel to allow them to be born if it can be prevented.

That ONE line is chilling, to me. No more comment needed, eh?


AS TO your condescending attitude towards the effeminate man you worked with....you have NO idea how many men you interact with every day are Gay. And you don't even notice!!!

Your doctor, lawyer, and yes, even you airline pilot (yours truly) and you would never "guess" in a million years.

Just as I would never be able to guess anything about your personal life, either.

reply to post by Wertdagf

When these areas are activated it is then up to the self to decide what these chemicals and feelings mean.

What does that mean? What you said supports that homosexuality is a choice.

I am sure you didn't mean that, but just want to correct it