How much proof do you need?, seriously, how much.

I`m posting this again as the last thread regarding this got tarnished, and when thought about it is as much proof as anyone will need regarding an inside job DO NOT REPLY UNTIL YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.

The point is where did Bush see the first plane hit on T.V. as stated in his own words, when he replied `I thought to myself what a terrible pilot`, he said he watched it on T.V. in the corridor BEFORE - BEFORE - BEFORE entering the class room, here`s proof that there is/was no T.V anywhere near where he was sitting at the time.

Paul, I am a sound engineer in Sarasota, Florida. Last night I was working an event for a program called "Let's Roll into Reading", put on by students at a local school to honor the heroes (firemen, police, etc.) who had been reading to school kids over the last few months. After the program, I had the opportunity to talk with Principal Gwen Rigell of Booker Elementary school for about twenty minutes. It was quite an interesting conversation. I asked her if in fact the President had been watching the events of 9-11 unfold on TV before he went into that classroom and she told me "Absolutely not." There was no TV in the corridor or anywhere near that classroom (not to mention that the footage he allegedly saw didn't even exist at the time). She said that he knew from his people that the first plane had hit and was told by Andy Card during his time in the classroom about the second plane. After he left the classroom, he was whisked into another classroom (their green room if you will) where they had a TV. However, this was the first opportunity he had to see any footage. Why would he go to such great lengths to make up a story, complete with details about what he was feeling while watching this TV, not once but twice? And why did he sit there as long as he did, knowing that not one but two planes had just struck? It's sad that the picture that was plastered all over the programs and banners last night was of our Commander in Chief sitting on his ass reading children's books while our country suffered as it did. That is the picture I will always remember.

Thanks,

Steve Lemke
Digital Olive Productions
Sarasota, Florida

Source.........

whatreallyhappened.com...



A confusing point explained, when we see Andrew Card enter the classroom - HE IS TELLING BUSH ABOUT THE SECOND-SECOND-SECOND PLANE HITTING WTC2 THE SOUTH TOWER,in his own words... White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card was with President Bush during a children's reading event at a Sarasota, Fla., public school when word came that planes had hit the World Trade Centre. Card had to decide how to tell Bush without creating a national panic...



I usually ask myself this: If I were president, would I want to know? And the test was yes, I would want to know. So then I decided that I would tell the president. And I went over to the door, and I actually did give some thought as to what I would say to the president because it's not an easy thing to interrupt a president during an event.

First of all, you're watching, the cameras are on, and the audience is paying particular attention. And when it's a student audience, it's even a greater challenge.

So I was very uncomfortable about interrupting the president during one of his events ... so I wanted to think, how can I convey to the president the situation? And I made a conscious decision to state the facts and to offer editorial comment. And the facts, as I knew them, were --

since he knew about the first plane, I said, "a second plane hit the second tower." Those were the facts. And the editorial comment was, "America is under attack."

I said those things into the president's right ear, and I stepped back, because I did not want to invite a discussion from the classroom. But I tried to be succinct in what I told him so that he understood the enormity of the problem. He looked up -- it was only a matter of seconds, but it seemed like minutes -- and I thought that he was outstanding in his ability not to scare either the American people that were paying attention to the cameras or, more importantly, the students that were in the classroom.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bd0db3e44f85.jpg[/atsimg]

Source.. www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/09/11/MN911voice03.DTL
(add http:// to above link).

Okay everyone understand it so far?, what we have seen is BUSH BEING TOLD BY ANDREW CARD IN THE CLASSROOM ABOUT THE SECOND PLANE, Card states Bush at this time knew of the first plane, watch, look, listen...

www.youtube.com...

When describing this..

He clearly states...

1). He was outside of the classroom.

He clearly states...

2). Watching the plane hit the building.

He clearly states...

3). Stating what a terrible pilot.

He clearly states...

4). Must have been a terrible accident (self explanatory this wasn`t plane 2)

If he was explaining about impact two WTC2 The South Tower, it would read..

1). He was in the classroom.

2). Andrew Card entered and whispered to me.

3). I said absolutely nothing.


Now CAN WE SEE THE DIFFERENCES?.

So the President without any shadow of a doubt was explaining on that video about the first plane impact WTC1 The North Tower, in his own words stating he saw this and replied `What a terrible pilot`, not only did he see the first crash he remembered what he said, a case of bad memory?, I think not, to explicitly explained, but, in covering up putting his foot in it, and to disguise the fact he had watched the first impact somewhere which would give the game away, he mistakenly lied regarding where the T.V. was to cover the fact up. Completely overlooking the huge fatal mistake, it wasn`t where he watched it on T.V. that mattered, it was how?, and now the $64,000 question.....

Mr President how did you watch the first impact WTC1 The North Tower on T.V. the morning it happened, when the only video capture of the first impact was the Firemen`s video (the Naudet brothers) which was not released until 9/12/2001?.

Even though it matters not where he saw the 1st impact on T.V. the whole point here video footage of WTC1 North Tower did not exist for another 24 hours.

Debunk that.

[edit on 18/08/2009 by Seventh]

Bush couldn't have been that "clueless." He clearly intimated that the Plane (The First Plane) was a lousy pilot, a terrible accident. There is no way around that.


HE Saw the First Plane Hit the North Tower. We didn't. End of Story.

Originally posted by talisman
Bush couldn't have been that "clueless." He clearly intimated that the Plane (The First Plane) was a lousy pilot, a terrible accident. There is no way around that.


HE Saw the First Plane Hit the North Tower. We didn't. End of Story.

My sentiments entirely, `What a terrible accident`, is not a term anyone would use after watching a second plane crash, a few hundred feet away from the first - inside 20 minutes, on T.V. the morning it happened, when that was impossible.

Can`t really debunk their own idol, can they?.

Originally posted by Seventh
Mr President how did you watch the first impact WTC1 The North Tower on T.V. the morning it happened, when the only video capture of the first impact was the Firemen`s video (the Naudet brothers) which was not released until 9/12/2001?.

Even though it matters not where he saw the 1st impact on T.V. the whole point here video footage of WTC1 North Tower did not exist for another 24 hours.

Debunk that.

Easy- you are using a double standard in your citicisms. All up until the 9/11 attack Bush's critics were lambasting him for his poor mastery of grammar and his dull wittedness, and NOW, on 9/11, you develop spontaneous amnesia concerning your prior position and now consider him to be a master at the English language as well as some closet supergenius.

It's blatantly obvious Bush meant to say he that saw a plane HAD hit the building, as in past tense, and after the first impact everyone in the world was rivetted to the TV set watching what was going on in Manhattan, and that is NOT up for debate. In your zeal to support these conspiracies you likewise necessarily have to portray Bush as some closet even supergenius with the sheer perfection of a supernatural entity. Are you talking about the same guy who can't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane victims in New Orleans without slipping on banana peels?!?

I'm sorry, but there's no way I can go that route. Bush was (and is) a C student putz and there's no flipping way he could have pulled off any intricately convoluted plot in the manner you're describing. I'm frankly amazed he was even able to say "I saw the first plane hit the building" and not "I eyed dat sh*t on TV dat wuz whack!". You're giving him way, way, way, WAY too much credit.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
It's blatantly obvious Bush meant to say he that saw a plane HAD hit the building,

I believe this also, that he "had" saw that a plane hit the WTC. He's not that stupid to say he watched the first plane on closed-circuit government tv.

However, Dave, did you read the part where the Principal of the school said there was no tv in the corridor, contradicting that Bush said there was? Bush lied so that he could tell a story about how he felt when falsely seeing on a tv that wasn't really there, that a plane had struck the first tower.

Either way, he lied.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
It's blatantly obvious Bush meant to say he that saw a plane HAD hit the building,

I believe this also, that he "had" saw that a plane hit the WTC. He's not that stupid to say he watched the first plane on closed-circuit government tv.

However, Dave, did you read the part where the Principal of the school said there was no tv in the corridor, contradicting that Bush said there was? Bush lied so that he could tell a story about how he felt when falsely seeing on a tv that wasn't really there, that a plane had struck the first tower.

Either way, he lied.

Yes, that is true. Either way it is a lie. It would be really difficult to imagine someone getting all of that wrong. This isn't some 'slip up' this obviously goes way beyond this.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


No Dave this just will not work on this one, although there is very little happening here regarding what is said, it is completely false the whole statement is one huge lie.

As stated in many posts and something we all have experienced `What were you doing when?`, Syndrome.

911blimp.net...

He stated he saw the plane hit - Simple mistake up to the point he explained in great detail, Terrible accident, Terrible pilot, the former clearly indicating it is the first attack, the latter inspires him to tell us he used to be a pilot, this is not some `Awwww bless him, he has accidentally got confused again` Bush type scenario to be brushed aside.

He clearly states in explicit detail he watched the Plane hit and mentions terrible accident, there is no way on earth anyone, no matter what state of mind would describe the only impact possible to see on T.V. that early, that day, as an accident, which is of course WTC2 the South Tower, we all know how he learned of this, Card told him, there was absolutely no T.V. involved with his learning of impact two.

You do not think you saw something on T.V. if you did not see it, Bush is/was not this stupid.

I watched the plane hitting the tower and thought what a terrible /pilot/accident is his description of the WTC1 the North Tower impact.

Why is it easy to come to this conclusion?, Andrew Card proves it beyond doubt - he entered the classroom and whispered to Bush about WTC2 the South Tower, now does Bush`s explanation on the video resemble anything like what we plainly see in the video?.

There`s obviously 2 incidents that day when Bush became clear of what was happening we have all witnessed one of them, which did not involve Bush......

1). Watching T.V.

2). Speaking.

3). Not talking to Andrew Card.

4). Being outside the classroom.

Therefore the account he openly talks of in that video is obviously regarding the first impact, it`s impossible to be the second, as not one thing he said matches the classroom event.

Card said Bush already knew of impact one, no one was there when he was instructed of this, terrible accident = 1st impact like I said it`s self explanatory = T.V. Evidence as stated by him *I watched* = how?.

You cannot keep making excuses for Bush`s ineptness, all you are really proving is if he is stupid enough to make mistakes, then he is stupid enough to make mistakes, which he has, and imho a gigantic one.



[edit on 18/08/2009 by Seventh]

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I also forgot to add Dave - He clearly stated he watched the plane before entering the classroom, the video clearly shows that the only plane able to watch on video had not happened until he entered the classroom ie the one Card informed him off WTC2 the South Tower.

I think Bush would remember knowing if he had seen the plane hit before or after being in the classroom, it was after all only 3 months after he was telling his story on that video.

OMFG I just worked out how he could have watched an event 20 minutes before it happened on T.V. can you guys get B.B.C news over there?.

EDIT: P.S.

P.S.

He knew of impact one WTC1 the North Tower impact before entering the classroom, when stating in that video his reply irregardless of watching it on T.V. should have read `I was informed of a plane hitting WTC1 en route to the school`, also at this time and I could be wrong here was it vitally important to tell the President this?, at this time it was not deemed a terrorist attack and could quite easily have been misinformation arriving from the Norad war games.

[edit on 18/08/2009 by Seventh]

Originally posted by talisman
Bush couldn't have been that "clueless." He clearly intimated that the Plane (The First Plane) was a lousy pilot, a terrible accident. There is no way around that.


HE Saw the First Plane Hit the North Tower. We didn't. End of Story.

He didn't see the first plane hit the tower until the Naudet video came out later. Just like the rest of us.

Originally posted by Seventh
I also forgot to add Dave - He clearly stated he watched the plane before entering the classroom, the video clearly shows that the only plane able to watch on video had not happened until he entered the classroom ie the one Card informed him off WTC2 the South Tower.

First off, Limos can and do have television screens. Out of all the limos in the world, I can see how the presidential limo definitely would have a TV screen. It isn't outside reality for someone to notify his motorcade about the first impact, and then someone turn on the lomo's television to see the news coverage. Thus, his mispeaking he saw the plane HAD hit the building, and that he really did see it on TV, are both correct.

Then there's Bone'z theory that he didn't see it at all, and was just making the claim up to posture for the camera. That's certainly a credible scenario as well, knowing Bush's penchant for stretching the truth. Misspeaking and lying that he saw any coverage at all are *still* both correct.

Either way, there are more non-conspiracy reasons to explain what Bush did than there are conspiracy reasons. I'm not saying that you should stop discussing your conspiracies, far from it. I'm simply pointing out that there are better conspiracies out there to discuss, becuase THIS PARTICULAR conspiracy is a dead end for you.

Beverly EckertOriginally posted by GoodOlDave

First off, Limos can and do have television screens. Out of all the limos in the world, I can see how the presidential limo definitely would have a TV screen. It isn't outside reality for someone to notify his motorcade about the first impact, and then someone turn on the lomo's television to see the news coverage. Thus, his mispeaking he saw the plane HAD hit the building, and that he really did see it on TV, are both correct.

Okay so you`re saying that he saw the plane on a T.V. in his limo afterwards?, we`ll break down his time in the school... He arrives at school enters class room reads and then does a 20 minute photo shoot, then leaves the school, it would only be around now for the 1st chance for him to see it on T.V., and is no way associated with the school.

So even if he is lying why completely lie and mention he saw it at the school?, and his whole statement depicts the 1st plane hitting, so not only has he lied about the T.V. in a place at the school there wasn`t any, watching it in his limo also, he must have meant he saw it like the rest of the world the next day.

Then there's Bone'z theory that he didn't see it at all, and was just making the claim up to posture for the camera. That's certainly a credible scenario as well, knowing Bush's penchant for stretching the truth. Misspeaking and lying that he saw any coverage at all are *still* both correct.

So he deliberately lies before the commission etc, not a clever thing to do, and Dave, seriously, there is a whole lot more believable and evident explanation here, it might just be that it`s not a CT after all, why is this so hard for you guys to take in?.

I mean Jeeez look at how many unrealistic counter points are put across, what you really need to do is - Look at every single point that is on the table, be it air expulsion squibs, Jet fuel killing 3 buildings, Shanksville whole scenario, hijackers with articulate flying skills brought about by a manual/flying Cessnas/P.C. Simulator software, overthrowing passengers whilst heavily outnumbered using craft knives, President telling lies but only lies benefiting debunking, these are just scraping the top of the pile, look at the reasons/excuses for just those few points, honestly it is a joke.

Either way, there are more non-conspiracy reasons to explain what Bush did than there are conspiracy reasons. I'm not saying that you should stop discussing your conspiracies, far from it. I'm simply pointing out that there are better conspiracies out there to discuss, becuase THIS PARTICULAR conspiracy is a dead end for you.

Well that may well be true, but when you are involved in a very intricate act of deceivement it`s human nature that sometimes you forget what is safe and what is not to say, how can this be a dead end conspiracy when the only way it can be debunked is stating the President is lying to look cool, that alone proves different and to be blatantly honest - beggars belief.



Again I will emphasise.

what a terrible pilot, what a terrible accident

Are two statements that you would associate with impact one WTC1 The North Tower, and by the time you would see this appropriate video, you would 100% not state what a terrible accident, and neither would you state them both after watching the 2nd impact WTC2 The South Tower, the only event such statements would be attributed to is the 1st impact.

/cheers.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Seventh
Mr President how did you watch the first impact WTC1 The North Tower on T.V. the morning it happened, when the only video capture of the first impact was the Firemen`s video (the Naudet brothers) which was not released until 9/12/2001?.

Even though it matters not where he saw the 1st impact on T.V. the whole point here video footage of WTC1 North Tower did not exist for another 24 hours.

Debunk that.

Easy- you are using a double standard in your citicisms. All up until the 9/11 attack Bush's critics were lambasting him for his poor mastery of grammar and his dull wittedness, and NOW, on 9/11, you develop spontaneous amnesia concerning your prior position and now consider him to be a master at the English language as well as some closet supergenius.

It's blatantly obvious Bush meant to say he that saw a plane HAD hit the building, as in past tense, and after the first impact everyone in the world was rivetted to the TV set watching what was going on in Manhattan, and that is NOT up for debate. In your zeal to support these conspiracies you likewise necessarily have to portray Bush as some closet even supergenius with the sheer perfection of a supernatural entity. Are you talking about the same guy who can't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane victims in New Orleans without slipping on banana peels?!?

I'm sorry, but there's no way I can go that route. Bush was (and is) a C student putz and there's no flipping way he could have pulled off any intricately convoluted plot in the manner you're describing. I'm frankly amazed he was even able to say "I saw the first plane hit the building" and not "I eyed dat sh*t on TV dat wuz whack!". You're giving him way, way, way, WAY too much credit.

1) I don't think anyone thinks Bush Jr was the mastermind

2) Are you saying that he saw the plane footage after the fact and thought: what a terrible pilot? As though his aides had not yet informed him that it was a planned attack? They would have known already from the FAA that they had lost contact with the pilots of all those planes, and coming on the heels of a warning prior about planes being used in attacks I hardly think his first thought was: what a terrible pilot!

Moreover, let's just say that maybe he did...that's pretty callous considering the loss of lives to say something like that.

Okay, back to reality...you can tell from the look on his face that he wasn't told that an accident happened. If it was an accident (air crashes do happen in the world) they wouldn't have broken into his media event to tell him. This was an issue of national security. It was obvious. It is also obvious he lied about it later because someone *cough Cheney cough* told him to say something stupid.

Even IF the president himself came forward with the truth...


what? You think everyone would suddenly believe him?

There is no proof for a skeptic.


You could show everyone in the world the Ark of The Covenent (sp?)


But dont you think that they would dismiss it as a hoax? Or would all of the non-believers suddenly jump from their chairs and falls onto hands and knees?

Dont make me laugh.

Audio of Bush making the same mistake and slightly more detailed.....

911blimp.net...

reply to post by A Fortiori

The look on his face said it all about 9/11 right there;
Holy ****, they pulled it off! (sorry)

You sure didn't have to try very hard to catch that clue.
I bet most of the kids in the room wont forget it.
Um....oops, stay safe kids! Sorry, my bad again.
And especially dont go on any quail hunting trips with anyone!

Sorry mods, if this needs edited, thats fine.

[edit on 23-8-2009 by dodadoom]

Seems he made this verbal mistake many times.....

911blimp.net...

The plot thickens, following a hunch regarding the satellite system in the limo I done some more research and stumbled across this... D.I.S.A. which stands for.... Defence Information Systems Agency

The Defence Information Systems Agency is a combat support agency responsible for planning, engineering, acquiring, fielding, and supporting Global Net-Centric Solutions and operating the Defence Information System Network to serve the needs of the President, Vice President, the Secretary of Defence, and the other DoD Components, under all conditions of peace and war.

www.disa.mil...

To help determine whether President Bush had been vividly recalling a non-existent video or had inadvertently revealed the existence of a secret video of which we were otherwise unaware, following an investigative hunch, a Freedom Of Information Act request of DISA for records of visual information sent to the limo that morning, as well as for records of the network operations involved in acquiring and delivering to Bush before 9 o'clock that morning the otherwise-unknown 9/11 1st-impact video he'd publicly referred to.

Here is DISA's denial of the FOIA request for records of visual information delivered to the presidential limousine motorcade that morning........

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f05b42fc5145.gif[/atsimg]

But however, there are such records and the WH has them, so.......

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7968d7e39e0c.gif[/atsimg]

Trail is getting hot, very hot, the White House Office has them..

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d29690713d31.gif[/atsimg]

The items seeked are in possession of the White House Office, but cannot be found. Duh, didn`t see that coming.

But in denying a look at those records, DISA did confirm that they do exist!

Proof of the system being used between the hours of 07:00 - 09:00, A.M., the system includes live feed T.V. Bush was aware before he entered the class room of the first attack at 09:03, which he openly stated at least twice he saw on T.V.

So by all means the plane that Bush said he saw hit the 1st tower on T.V. that was obviously seen in his limo, but he stated was in the school, does have some pretty hot evidence to back it up, but, like all T.V. evidence (B.B.C.) it get`s mislaid, what we need here are some super duper evidence locating experts if only there were some associated with the American secret service agencies, that excel in finding items like videos, hijacker related evidence etc, etc.



Yet again a whole heap of evidence pointing to a cover up.

Hi everybody,

To Seventh, I think you are moving in the wrong direction with this OP.

My explanation and forgive if I missed it, would be President Bush has some sort of faulty memory slash wanting to please issue. He saw the events, and (fake or not) had empathy with the American people.

After all, do we not all have empathy with our fellow man (note Zen like exceptions to the rule). Also he wanted to please the crowd and might have said what he thought they wanted to hear. In this one instance I do not think he lied, merely got it wrong. Maybe all the 'drinking' messed with his brain

Never thought I would say it but Good Ol Dave raised some good counter points which is why I replied, to big up his first post, unfortunately 9/11 was some sort of inside job conspiracy and the mass media is slowly (perhaps even killing) crushing our spiritual and physical bodies.... yay! great job media!

Power and Equality




[edit on 23-8-2009 by yyyyyyyyyy]

reply to post by yyyyyyyyyy



Hi, and as per normal there is evidence leading right up to the point it should be handed over, read the DISA related post above.

Twice he has stated seeing a plane hit the tower that day, in one such occasion he mentions it was the 1st, there was live satellite feed sent to his limo between the times of 7-9 that morning.

And the debunking on all this is that he lied to look cool.


[edit on 18/08/2009 by Seventh]

Hey Seventh,

Only just checked the documents, this puts a different spin on things. In general I follow a Noam Chomsky position of believing in what people say while looking at the evidence. I don't think Bush lied to look cool on this one very specific issue, more his response is humanistic.

However great work on the documents, the information from the White House must not be denied (again with Zen like exceptions) to people who seek it. The plot thickens on this one. By denying the evidence the US government is only building itself a fortress made of cards.

A live video feed to a limo - strange guys working for the Israeli Defense Forces with camcorders near the towers quote to document it, but that is another thread maybe.

Power and Equality