Report Reveals CIA Conducted Mock Executions

reply to post by VinceP1974


I wasn't being sarcastic. I was stating that you are probably right, as we are ignoring the GC treaty. Yes we do need to return to 90's policy. I often ponder what we would have to give up if another attack occurred. Would we create a Worldwide Homeland Security Department so that we can share all of our information with one central agency? Would we round up anyone disagreeing with authority? Maybe patriot act 4 would follow? How much should we concede our identity as a free, moral country, in order to have the appearance of safety?

reply to post by jd140


I think the standard of "shocking the conscious" is one that is vague, but is saying if a majority of people are like WTF OMG that's Horrible, then it may meet that standard. Basically, under these guidelines the standard is met as reported by our own military that releasing photo's of the torture incurred would destroy our image around the globe. In my mind, they just admitted that their own standard of torture is met.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


I'm sure you'll be so pleased with yourself as you watch the mushroom clouds rise over the major population centers of the US.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by jd140

 

I think the standard of "shocking the conscious" is one that is vague, but is saying if a majority of people are like WTF OMG that's Horrible, then it may meet that standard. Basically, under these guidelines the standard is met as reported by our own military that releasing photo's of the torture incurred would destroy our image around the globe. In my mind, they just admitted that their own standard of torture is met.

If a majority of people decided that this brainless mush was finally unacceptable I think it would be ok to silence people like you , to curtail the spread of mental illness caused by those who have to suffer reading through it

Just kidding of course.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


So we are letting the american public dictate what is torture and what is not then.

To be honest, I haven't seen any pics of torture. I have seen pics of prisoner abuse, but none of torture.

We should just ignore Geneva Convention, who gives a crap about some internationalist organization piece of paper. We should decide what's best for our country. We probably added a get out clause like we do all our treaties anyway, saying that the treaty is invalid if it contravenes the constitution or our national security. If we didn't, then we can just use our lawyers to find loopholes, and if push comes to shove, we can just tell the world to stick it, we're in charge. We've got all the weapons, no-one can touch us. They can't do anything.

The Geneva Conventions is basically a "contract" between nations.

One side doesn't meet the full obligations, the contract is off. No use spotting the other side fifty points up front.

There are very specific, very precise determining criteria as to what constitutes a "protected" combatant. You have to meet these specific conditions to qualify for being treated as a prisoner of war, and being accorded the specified treatments as a prisoner of war.

Non-uniformed combatants have ZERO protections under the Geneva Conventions, and are in essence non-persons.

Thus, if you catch or take prisoner a non-uniformed combatant, even if you're a PFC and are the ranking soldier on the spot at the moment, you can make a determination in less than five seconds, and execute them on the spot, all legally, all within the framework of the Geneva Conventions.

Since this non-uniformed combant does not legally exist, you can torture, slice, dice, and skewer if you wish, and THEN execute him.

Every breath a non-uniformed combatant takes is at your convenience.

Our biggest mistake has been in taking non-uniformed combatants prisoner. They should be executed where found, and if you want to crush his doo-dads in a vice to get him to talk BEFORE you execute him, then let your conscience be your guide.

All legal.

All in strict accordance with international law and more specifically, the Geneva Conventions.

Originally posted by harpsounds
We should just ignore Geneva Convention, who gives a crap about some internationalist organization piece of paper. We should decide what's best for our country. .... We've got all the weapons, no-one can touch us. They can't do anything.

Strikes me that it's important that the US is committed to the rule of law, and takes the high ground so that it can expect the same treatment for its own troops. Your sons and daughters in the services are entitled to that much.

And no-one can touch you? You have all the weapons? Need I point out the obvious?

Originally posted by dooper

Our biggest mistake has been in taking non-uniformed combatants prisoner. They should be executed where found, and if you want to crush his doo-dads in a vice to get him to talk BEFORE you execute him, then let your conscience be your guide.

All legal.

All in strict accordance with international law and more specifically, the Geneva Conventions.

Totally agree with you. The ones in gitmo should be put on a plane and throw out on the ocean and then say "ooops.. dont know what happened to them"

Originally posted by VinceP1974

Originally posted by dooper

Our biggest mistake has been in taking non-uniformed combatants prisoner. They should be executed where found, and if you want to crush his doo-dads in a vice to get him to talk BEFORE you execute him, then let your conscience be your guide.

All legal.

All in strict accordance with international law and more specifically, the Geneva Conventions.

Totally agree with you. The ones in gitmo should be put on a plane and throw out on the ocean and then say "ooops.. dont know what happened to them"

Considering how much you LOVE a large and powerful centralized government
I think that is a great idea!!!

Originally posted by VinceP1974
The ones in gitmo should be put on a plane and throw out on the ocean and then say "ooops.. dont know what happened to them"

I am consistently amused how Keyboard Kommandoes get all Steven Seagal over activities that they'd whine about if it were being done to Americans. Jokeshop.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by harpsounds
We should just ignore Geneva Convention, who gives a crap about some internationalist organization piece of paper. We should decide what's best for our country. .... We've got all the weapons, no-one can touch us. They can't do anything.

Strikes me that it's important that the US is committed to the rule of law, and takes the high ground so that it can expect the same treatment for its own troops. Your sons and daughters in the services are entitled to that much.

And no-one can touch you? You have all the weapons? Need I point out the obvious?

What is the obvious? The few little attacks the scum have managed to pull off? Like 3000 lives in 2001? I think people learn once we kill a million or so in return.

Originally posted by harpsounds I think people learn once we kill a million or so in return.

So do you see that happening any time soon, or is that just a little daydream of yours? Personally, I don't think you're going to get your wish.

Originally posted by Wimbly
More distractions based on hypotheticals. The story put put by Newsweek no less. One of Obama's faithful.

Well, it has made it to the New York Times...does that make it any closer to being a possibility, or are we still holding out for Fox as the arbiter of Truthiness?

Justice Dept. Report Advises Pursuing C.I.A. Abuse Cases The Justice Department’s ethics office has recommended reversing the Bush administration and reopening nearly a dozen prisoner-abuse cases, potentially exposing Central Intelligence Agency employees and contractors to prosecution for brutal treatment of terrorism suspects, according to a person officially briefed on the matter. www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Well then, how would you go about extracting information from someone that may save American lives? You have a terrorist who knows what is going to go down but he isn't talking. What do you do? Be nice to him and hope he tells you? The people that carry out these interrogations are professionals, and they know all too well that if you live by the sword you die by the sword. They are committed to the circumstances that arise from their actions be it good or bad.

So what say you? Do you think you could get the information that is needed by being nice and following the rules? Do you think that if the information leaked to the press showed that we are ever so nice to these people that it would prevent further terrorist attacks? Be for real. This is the real world and it isn't all peaches and cream. I applaud the efforts of the interrogators but at the same time I am glad I am not the one responsible for gleaning the information from them.

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Well then, how would you go about extracting information from someone that may save American lives? You have a terrorist who knows what is going to go down but he isn't talking. What do you do? Be nice to him and hope he tells you?

A clear conscience doesn't destroy evidence and cover it's tracks. And if it is such an open and shut case, why is the government going after the CIA on the issue? Somebody important must think they were out of line. That means there are protocols in place that were ignored. The rule of law applies to the good guys, too, right?

Somebody has been watching too much '24'. (Yes, I know he's Canadian )

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Could be that they want that information out there to deter any wanna be terrorists. Or it could be that the current administration wants to portray itself as doing everything correctly, which will inevitability be its own destruction.

It is a toss up. My question still remains. How would you get the information you need to save American lives?

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

My question still remains. How would you get the information you need to save American lives?

Drugs? I donno. Not my line of work...couldn't say. Check the US Army Field Manual...isn't that the gold standard? Bottom line, if the Justice Department is going after the CIA...I'd call that a serious interpretation of the language. And a clear conscience doesn't hide its tracks and destroy evidence of its deeds...also against the law and being investigated.

Well, here ya go. A self edit to provide a little more info:

Official: White House sets up interrogation unit President Barack Obama has moved more forcefully than ever to abandon Bush administration interrogation policies, approving creation of a special White House unit for questioning terrorism suspects, as Attorney General Eric Holder weighs whether to reopen and pursue prisoner abuse cases.
...The new group and new directives to rely soley on the Army Field Manual when interrogating prisoners is an attempt by the administration to separate itself from allegation that the Bush administration tortured some prisoners. www.huffingtonpost.com...

[edit on 24-8-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

[edit on 24-8-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Well done JohnnyCanuck. Thanks for the link and the information you provided. I really didn't think you were going to answer. Again, thanks.

Quick! They're getting smart about the health reform! Find something else that happened under the Bush administration to distract the media for a while!

Mock executions?! YES. That will work perfectly!