Jon Stewart NAILS Betsy McCaughey on "Death Panel" Rumors

reply to post by Hal9000

Originally posted by Hal9000

Originally posted by jsobecky
Liberals like to portray themselves as the elite, the enlightened, the educated. But Sarah Palin has spoken above their education level with 'death panels'. There is no literal 'death panel' in the bill. There is, however, a metaphorical equivalent.

Sarah, please dumb down your rhetoric so that the libs can follow along.

ETA: This is why libs are afraid of, and try to discredit, Sarah Palin. She is twice as smart as them.

And the people know it.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by jsobecky]

The only people she is appealing to are people who listen to right-wing brainwashing and can't think for themselves. How is that above anyone with a forth grade education?

I think you meant fourth grade education, no?

You know as well as I do that the name death panels is completely hyperbolic and for Ma and Pa Kettle, it's just down right scary.

It was a metaphor, and a very effective one. It served several purposes:

*To bring people's awareness to the fact that the Obama administration intends to ration your health care:

"Your life, Our decision".

* To force the Obama administration to answer concerns that the American people have over this piece of trash bill.

After all, if there were no metaphorical death panels, why did the Dems feel it necessary to remove that section of the bill?

Now I know jsobecky that your just towing the party line, but I also know you are smart. Deep down don't you think that using terms like death panels is dishonest and makes people worried and scared when there is no reason to be?

First off, I'm an Indy, you know...that segment of the electorate that swung the election to Obama, but that are now disowning him in droves....

Second of all, the metaphor is accurate. Please research Obama's advisors on this issue, specifically Tom Daschle and Ezekiel Emanuel. If their opinions don't alarm you, then I fear for you.

Ah, don't bother answering, I already know you will not agree, but I think you know what I mean. If you have to scare people and make up rumors to get people to go along with the party, that my friend is a flawed platform and doomed to fail.

Obama's numbers continue to plummet, I'd say the tactic is very effective.

Even if it were true, any committee that would have to be put together to make decisions on health care would be no different than any board room meeting of any current insurance company right now, but you don't call them death panels. Why is that?

These are the types of issues that we should be addressing in health care reform. Not simply giving the gov't the OK to do it just because the inscos do it.

Btw, Sarah Palin is now a private citizen. That is a plus for the Dems, in one respect:

The Democrats are successful at destroying private American citizens, i.e., Joe the Plumber, Sarah Palin. But when it comes to an organized effort, they crumble, and must bring in their NBPP and union goons to try to intimidate the people. Even their 'leaders' such as Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and Frank have all been guilty of attacking the American public. They do it out of desperation and fear.

Now there is talk among the Dems to use scurrilous tactics to evade the 60 vote rule to get this passed. They are pathetic. They have a majority in the governance, but not for much longer. They are desperate.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Hal9000You know as well as I do that the name death panels is completely hyperbolic and for Ma and Pa Kettle, it's just down right scary.

It was a metaphor, and a very effective one. It served several purposes:

*To bring people's awareness to the fact that the Obama administration intends to ration your health care:

"Your life, Our decision".

* To force the Obama administration to answer concerns that the American people have over this piece of trash bill.

How is this different than any decisions being made by existing private insurance companies?

After all, if there were no metaphorical death panels, why did the Dems feel it necessary to remove that section of the bill?

As I pointed out in a previous post, the whole "end of life" provision was put in and later removed by a republican.

Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said in a statement Thursday that the provision had been dropped from consideration because it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly.

www.cbsnews.com...

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Hal9000Now I know jsobecky that your just towing the party line, but I also know you are smart. Deep down don't you think that using terms like death panels is dishonest and makes people worried and scared when there is no reason to be?

First off, I'm an Indy, you know...that segment of the electorate that swung the election to Obama, but that are now disowning him in droves....

Second of all, the metaphor is accurate. Please research Obama's advisors on this issue, specifically Tom Daschle and Ezekiel Emanuel. If their opinions don't alarm you, then I fear for you.

So either you think it's ok to be dishonest and lie to the American public or you are truly afraid. Something tells me that it is not because you are afraid.

Originally posted by jsobeckyThese are the types of issues that we should be addressing in health care reform. Not simply giving the gov't the OK to do it just because the inscos do it.

I agree, but we can't have a rational discussion when we are arguing about death panels.

I have no problem with discussing the proposals and think we should take the time to get it right. So why don't we do that?

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by amazed

 

Right, let's just go even further, and say let's break it down into all these many many different parts, and each part we have to spend decades working on. That way in the meantime a lot of people will die because of lack of good health care. And republicans can then over the next "decades" pat themselves on the back for "doing good". Look, we saved the world from all these "leeches".

Why are you so afraid of taking the time to explain and discuss what is in the proposed bill? I can understand why Obama would be against it - it would expose the bill for what it really is. But you?

Unless you're a "yes we can!" person.

You remind me of a used car salesman that tries to rush someone into buying a lemon without test driving it or having it inspected by an independent mechanic.

And it has nothing to do with Republicans, as much as you, Obama, and MSNBC try to paint it that color. Many, many of what you call 'astroturf mobs' are actually Democrats and Independents.

Did I ever say we should not read and understand the proposed bill? I said we should NOT take decades to deal with this. It has already been decades.

What are YOU afraid of?

What irritates me is the disinformation being spread around such as "death panels". No, I do not like what is being proposed. I actually want UNIVERSAL single payer health care. Unfortunately that was taken off the table from the very beginning.

EVERYONE, should be a "yes we can" person. Not because of Obama, but because we are thinking, and usually intelligent beings who CAN do many great things. The problem? We seem to get stuck in a greedy attitude while shoving those less fortunate to the ground and kicking them.

It has nothing to do with Obama for me. It has to do with the FACT that we need health care. I am middle income, and CANNOT afford health care for my children. Our employment does not provide the option for health care either as we work for a small business. I pay taxes, I pay lot's of taxes for things I don't agree with, I pay taxes for those who are low income to get insurance, BUT MY CHILDREN DO NOT!

You seem to be working for the health insurance companies with your propaganda. Hope you are getting a paycheck from them. And hope you don't have any "preexisting" conditions. Oh, and if you get really really sick, they will probably find any excuse they can to deny you services.

reply to post by jsobecky


Please show the exact place in the proposed bill where a "death panel" will be created?

Otherwise you are propagating fear mongering and stupidity.

bigdada5o1, I have been talking to people for many years about the fact that we need health care reform. You don't hear about it when republicans are in office, because they don't want health care reform. Why? I have no understanding of this. It is heartless.

Something to do with people not being able to think for themselves. I was just watching a town hall meeting with McCain, and one of his supporters was in tears saying "tell us what to do". Another words? Tell us what to think, how to act etc. No compromises was the phrase being chanted at this town hall. Talk about not thinking for yourselves.

So, to me, "no compromises" means "talking for decades", doing what your representatives tell you what to do when it is supposed to be the other way around, and then doing absolutely nothing.

This might show where I live, but here goes. I was personally at a town hall meeting where Obama spoke. Yeah, great for me, I got to be in the same room with the President and actually saw myself on television later. Won't tell you what I was wearing though.

He answered many questions from both sides of the table, and I felt everyone had reasonable questions that were important to understand. Not once, did anyone ever ask him to tell us what we should do or think. Neither did anyone ever say "no compromises". It was a great town hall meeting, without any of the sensationalism that I have seen on all the news channels. They are all just nuts.

And yes, it has really ticked me off, to see all the news channels taking things he said out of context to turn it into something it was not. BOTH sides have been doing this. Personally hearing what was said, and then seeing how both sides have reacted, has just been more of a rude awakening.

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If there is any chance to control costs, such as having the public option, it needs to be pursued. I've seen organizations having to fire people only because if the budget is flat, and the premiums grow (and do they ever), they are left with little choice.

The GOP has nothing, nothing at all to offer to the American public to rectify the situation with healthcare, and for very that reason they should shut up.

reply to post by amazed

reply to post by jsobecky
Please show the exact place in the proposed bill where a "death panel" will be created?

See what I mean, world?

I lay out a whole post on the use of metaphors. I even provide the dictionary definition of metaphor.

And *still* some people cannot follow along.

Did I ever say we should not read and understand the proposed bill? I said we should NOT take decades to deal with this. It has already been decades.

And how many times over these supposed 'decades' has there been a bill on paper for the public to discuss? Not until now there hasn't been.

So now you need to be patient and wait until the current bill is debated and vetted.

I was personally at a town hall meeting where Obama spoke. Yeah, great for me, I got to be in the same room with the President and actually saw myself on television later.

Doesn't surprise me, since the only people allowed in his town hall meetings are his brainwashed followers.

reply to post by buddhasystem

The GOP has nothing, nothing at all to offer to the American public to rectify the situation with healthcare, and for very that reason they should shut up.

Wrong. One example is Senator Jim DeMint:

Sen. DeMint’s Proposal for Patient Empowerment (Not Government Control)

And saying that the opposition should shut up is impolite and rude.

reply to post by jsobecky


JSO, lets be honest...

Would you like anything in the health care industry to change in regards further favoring consumers?

OR

Is it a case where you think a private business should be allowed to operate in any fashion as long as it is in accordance to law.

IF SO

Would changing laws which might impact the industries profitability a fair approach or not?


I just need some straight up truth from someone, I am on here to learn about people and my self and in this climate I can't seem to get a straight answer. I suspect that underneath all the layers of METAPHORS this is what remains. Am I on the right track?






[edit on 25-8-2009 by mental modulator]

Originally posted by jsobecky
And saying that the opposition should shut up is impolite and rude.

So is calling people "brainwashed followers" and accusing them of having "blind allegiance". Read over your posts in this thread. You have no room to accuse someone of being impolite and rude, sir.

Originally posted by jsobecky

I was personally at a town hall meeting where Obama spoke. Yeah, great for me, I got to be in the same room with the President and actually saw myself on television later.

Doesn't surprise me, since the only people allowed in his town hall meetings are his brainwashed followers.

Ok, you obviously completely missed the part where I stated "people from BOTH sides were asking questions."

I can guarantee that many people, Republicans, Independents (myself), and Democrats were at this town hall.

It is obvious, that you will only think what you are told to think, just like the "republican" at the McCain town hall meeting today who was in tears, asking him to tell her what to do instead of thinking for herself.

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