Jon Stewart NAILS Betsy McCaughey on "Death Panel" Rumors

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Sorry, I'm not buying the politics of fear. Obama rammed through the stimulus bill because we were supposedly "on the brink of catastrophe" and it needed to be passed right now or we would all perish.

Big fat lot of good it did us, eh?

GM and others needed to be socialized because "they were too big to fail".

Obama can go sell crazy somewhere else. People are starting to wake up.

"Death Panels" aren't in the bill...because it's not called death panels, they're called accountants. There is no need to rush any healthcare reform bill because it doesn't go into effect until 2012 in any form...that is one thing that is highly suspicious.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by yellowcard]

Originally posted by Wimbly
The guy is yet another part of the DNC propaganda network we call the media. Democrats control everything, have a dozen networks shilling for them 24/7 and he still cant bring himself to do anything but rip in to the "right".

Sure, the Dems do things differently from GOP. They don't form a dark cabal to start a criminal war overseas and then call executive privilege when you know what hits the fan. They don't reveal identity of a CIA agent to punish her dissenting husband. Yep, they typically don't try to really ram things down the public's collective throat -- that's the province of GOP, I give you that.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jsobecky
To accept and endorse the fact that the gov't thinks
a) That end of life decisions are in such a state that it requires their omniscience to determine what the questions and procedures should be
b) That they should have the power to incent or penalize doctors to follow their 'script'
is patently a socialist outlook.

The the GOP is "Socialist". LOL
Multiple Republican Leaders Voted In 2003 For Measure Similar To Current “Government Euthanasia” Bill

GOP officials John Boehner, Thaddeus McCotter, Johnny Isakson, and Chuck Grassley all voted in 2003 for a measure very similar to the one in the current House health care bill they now suggest in various ways could lead to government-encouraged euthanasia.

As Time’s Amy Sullivan reported late last night, Grassley voted for the 2003 Medicare prescription drug bill, which — ready? — provided coverage for “counseling the beneficiary with respect to end-of-life issues and care options, and advising the beneficiary regarding advanced care planning.”

Yeah, that's real journalism for ya.

I had heard the ridiculous notion that some think Jon Stewart is a "journalist". I didn't think you'd be one of them, though... He gives a hell of an interview, though!

Originally posted by cranberrydork

I'd love to be able to take this "resignation" at face value. I really would. But how many upper level executives are given the choice of "resign" or "be fired"?

Yeah, I don't think she "resigned". She thought she did a great job on The Daily Show. [edit on 22-8-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Sadly, I don't believe anyone who is against health care will listen to the truth. They have their minds locked into an erroneous belief, and nothing will ever change that.

Originally posted by jsobecky
And there is no need to rush a bill into law in 30 days on such a complex issue that has been discussed for decades.

Right, let's just go even further, and say let's break it down into all these many many different parts, and each part we have to spend decades working on. That way in the meantime a lot of people will die because of lack of good health care. And republicans can then over the next "decades" pat themselves on the back for "doing good". Look, we saved the world from all these "leeches".

You stated yourself, it has been discussed for decades. The time is past for "breaking it into small portions over time". Decades, is way long enough for this country to have dealt with this issue. Unless you are a no we can't person.

reply to post by SeanU


I agree with you. Actually, I think everyone over the age of 18 should sit down with a knowledgeable person ie physician etc., and create a living will/advanced care planning directive.

In the past 15ish+ 20ish years I have had 3 horrible medical situations happen that took away those I love. Two of them did not have an advanced care planning directive, and the horror of those situations, should not ever have to take place in this country. One of them did have an advanced care planning directive, and her wishes were to be at home with those who loved her.

First, my dad did not have health insurance. He could not afford it on his income, and the worse his condition became, the less he could afford health insurance. But still, never qualified for government insurance. Just over that poverty line, but not quite enough to afford to pay for health care himself.

He kept having heart issues, we would rush him to the ER, where he would be stabilized so he did not die on their doorsteps, and then he would be sent home. In the end, a horror story of incompetent heartless dr's refusing to help him as he did not have health insurance, a constant back and forth to the ER where he received minimal crappy care and then being sent home.

He in the end, became comatose and on life support. He did not have an advanced care planning directive. It was hell, two weeks in the hospital on life support after months of trying to get the care he deserved as a human being.

We had to make a decision, take him off life support, or leave him on life support for what we were told would be years and years. They finally fixed his heart, but let his brain die from lack of oxygen. After a week of the family being heart broken, and fighting between everyone, we finally made the decision to remove life support. We were THEN told by the hospital, that he would probably live for 3-5 days, as his heart was now in great condition, but he had no brain activity other than what it took to keep him breathing and his heart beating. So we then had to make another decision, give him food and water through a tube put into his stomach, or just give him a lot of pain medication until his body gave out.

I cannot even put into words the horror of all of this. To this day, many many many years later, I still wake up with nightmares. ALL BECAUSE OF LACK OF HEALTH INSURANCE! If he had health insurance available to him, he would have been given the care he needed by the appropriate physicians, and would still be with us, barring any accidents etc.

My mom, after all of this, received a bill from the hospital which was over $500,000. Eat that.

Situation 2. My brother was in a car accident, which left him in a vegetative state. He lived this way for 13+ years. He did not have an advanced care planning directive. So? He lived on life support. He was on a breathing machine, feedings everything. He had to have 100% care, as he could not even turn himself over.

We brought him home and took care of him for all of these years. No dignity what so ever. Can you imagine your sibling washing and cleaning every part of you everyday? Rolling you every 30 minutes? Feeding you. Cleaning your trachea constantly? Dressing you?

Imagine all the surgeries to keep him alive, the pneumonia he fought, the broken bones he constantly had the last few years as the longer he lived this way the softer his bones became. The strokes he started having, the seizures, an unending daily fight over something going wrong in his body. All the meds he was on to keep him alive that we had to give him every two hours, even through out the night. Remember, people in this condition need care 24 hours a day, not just when it is convenient for you.

In the end, we STILL had to make a choice, to keep fighting for him to live, or take him off life support. Sure, he could have lived another 6 months maybe on life support MAYBE. But what kind of life did he have in a vegetative (comatose) state? He was in his 30's when he had his accident. If he had an advanced care planning directive, those who loved him, would NEVER have gone through all we did.

I can tell you, his insurance dropped him like a hot potato pretty darn quick. Government insurance took over. I would guesstimate that his care over all of these years was somewhere in the MULTI MILLIONS. Have fun with that republicans.

My mother in law was diagnosed with lung cancer, having never smoked. She, with the help of her physicians and Hospice, created an advanced care planning directive. Because of this, she was able to be at home with us her last few months. We took care of her, laughed and cried with her, and with dignity, she passed quietly in the early morning in the loving care of her family. Without this directive, she would have been forced to go into a hospital, possibly being put on life support.

I, have an advanced care planning directive. My family will NEVER have to make these choices for me.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by jsobecky
To accept and endorse the fact that the gov't thinks

a) That end of life decisions are in such a state that it requires their omniscience to determine what the questions and procedures should be

I think it is highly appropriate that there should be end of life consultations well before you are too senile. And considering that this is a legal issue more than a medical one, I think its highly appropriate that a group of lawyers (aka Congress) weigh in. It's probably the only part of the whole bill they do understand well.

b) That they should have the power to incent or penalize doctors to follow their 'script'

is patently a socialist outlook.

What interview were you watching? I saw nowhere in that video her showing any penalties for doctors that don't. They just won't get a five star rating. Wooooooo! Scary. At least the rating scale is regulated unlike Internet reviews.

And to conclude that Stewart 'nailed' her is an incredibly naive way to look at it. How did he 'nail' her? By quacking like a duck while she tried to dig out the info to answer his question? Yeah, that's real journalism for ya.

Um, again, what interview were you watching? I thought he was extraordinarily patient with her when he asked her to read the passage and instead she kept "explaining" the passage and never really reading it until she was pinned down and couldn't wiggle anymore and then she STILL had to explain how the passage was deceptive when it seemed very straight-forward to me.

I hate this whole: you're so stupid and can't form your own opinions without my help thing. She should have just read the passage.

Look, I'm against the bill as it stands, but I am equally offended by this right wing push to make it sound worse than it actually is.

I would like to see fair, non-propogandized debate on this, and instead we get more right-left polarization crap.

I'm tired of the Keith Olbermans, the Janeane Garafalos, the Sean Hannity's, the Sarah Palins. They are the biggest bunch of partisan, smarmy nutjobs on the planet!

She not only was well prepared and able to answer his silly questions, she pretty much showed him up for the buffoon he really is.

Um, no.

Notwithstanding her inability to show him where a half-trillion dollar cut in Medicare would "take away grandpa's artificial hips" in the current bill.

I wish all of you would be honest about what's in it. The bill does NOT give people less than what they are currently getting. Very few of us can afford PPOs, anymore. Look at the BS packages out there, you want to talk regulating medicine. Insurance companies have been doing that for years with their denial of claims, their pre-existing condition BS. I have had a PPO for years and I've never had ONE single blood test that didn't result in a medical bill because my insurance refused to pay at first.

The anti-healthcare mob act like insurance companies are filled with porch-sitting, cookie baking, knitting grandma types that wouldn't refuse you a thing instead of the overly contesting, convoluted greedy b******S they really are.

The fact is the bill has a lot of problems without all the lies. If they wanted to save us money, pump more back into the economy it would go towards the voucher side, or provide incentives for non-profit healthcare. This is still about making money for their friends. I'm not happy with it, but I'm also not happy about the lies being spread about it.

reply to post by amazed

Right, let's just go even further, and say let's break it down into all these many many different parts, and each part we have to spend decades working on. That way in the meantime a lot of people will die because of lack of good health care. And republicans can then over the next "decades" pat themselves on the back for "doing good". Look, we saved the world from all these "leeches".

Why are you so afraid of taking the time to explain and discuss what is in the proposed bill? I can understand why Obama would be against it - it would expose the bill for what it really is. But you?

Unless you're a "yes we can!" person.

You remind me of a used car salesman that tries to rush someone into buying a lemon without test driving it or having it inspected by an independent mechanic.

And it has nothing to do with Republicans, as much as you, Obama, and MSNBC try to paint it that color. Many, many of what you call 'astroturf mobs' are actually Democrats and Independents.

reply to post by A Fortiori

I think it is highly appropriate that there should be end of life consultations well before you are too senile.

So do I. Between concerned parties. i.e., the patient, family, and doctors.

You want Joe Biden sticking his nose up your butt at a time like that? Be my guest.

And considering that this is a legal issue more than a medical one, I think its highly appropriate that a group of lawyers (aka Congress) weigh in. It's probably the only part of the whole bill they do understand well.

Ohmigod. Congress is so inept and corrupt that they can't even tie their own shoes. And you want them to run your end of life?

If I need a lawyer, I'll hire a lawyer. I don't have to elect one to Congress.

And btw... there is no 'anti-healthcare mob'. There are, however, a lot of thinking people who want to understand and have a voice in healthcare reform. Stop with the exaggerations, please.:shk:

Originally posted by jsobecky
So do I. Between concerned parties. i.e., the patient, family, and doctors.

This bill doesn't suggest anything else. The consultation WILL be between the patient and his Dr.

And you want them to run your end of life?

That's sensationalism (as is Joe Biden with his nose up someone's butt). They aren't going to "run" the people's end of life. They are going to cover consultations. That's it.

Well, they're not now, because people like you complained about it so much, it will probably be taken out of the final bill. So now, if an elderly person wants to consult on end-of-life issues, they'll just have to pay for it themselves.

If I need a lawyer, I'll hire a lawyer.

And this is exactly the mindset... If a person can't afford health care, what makes you think they can afford to hire a lawyer?!?! This is the kind of oblivious statement that shows where the anti-health care people are coming from. You can afford a lawyer. Fine. But for those who can't? Forget about them!

Well, some of us don't want to just forget about them.

And btw... there is no 'anti-healthcare mob'. There are, however, a lot of thinking people who want to understand and have a voice in healthcare reform.

If this is really true, then you have read the health care bill and you KNOW the government is not going to have ANY say in the choices a person makes about their own end of life. And you're just sensationalizing for effect.


[edit on 22-8-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Sorry, I'm not buying the politics of fear. Obama rammed through the stimulus bill because we were supposedly "on the brink of catastrophe" and it needed to be passed right now or we would all perish.

Big fat lot of good it did us, eh?

GM and others needed to be socialized because "they were too big to fail".

Obama can go sell crazy somewhere else. People are starting to wake up.

OBAMA RAMMED THROUGH THE STIMULUS BILL???????

Which one? The first one that happened last fall under the Bush administration or the one that hasn't even been doled out yet?

There have been two, not one, stimulus bills, so let's be fair.

And, it goes without saying, they both sucked. If they really wanted to stimulate long-term growth they would have given every American citizen $50K and the economy would have not only bounced back as people paid off bills (thus giving money to failing banks) or spent it (thus giving money to corporate America) and resulted in the creation of jobs.

reply to post by jsobecky

And btw... there is no 'anti-healthcare mob'. There are, however, a lot of thinking people who want to understand and have a voice in healthcare reform. Stop with the exaggerations, please.

There IS an anti-healthcare mob, and then there are rational anti-healthcare people that are made to look like nutjobs because the mob (mostly agent provocateurs) have created a false perception about who is the sort of person against the bill.

I am against the current bill but I think bringing a gun to a townhall meeting with the President there is completely irresponsible and sends the wrong message. Why can't their be intelligent debate on the subject? As long as people lie about what's in it there will never be a better bill or reform that makes real sense.

Democrats and Republicans have ruined this nation with their partisan dirty tricks and lies. When you lie about what's in the bill, or when you ignore the truth and keep on arguing about how many angels fit on the head of a pin you make all of the rest of us look like we agree with you because you yell the loudest and say the most inflammatory things.

Well, I'm sorry. I don't agree with you. I'm against the current bill, but I am against it for very real reasons that have nothing to do with this ridiculous fear mongering.

I find it disheartening that she continued to perpetuate the death panel "lie" when called out on it. Gotta give her an A+ for creativity though. Not many can open up a 1000 page piece of legislation and interpret a fairytale (or a nightmare in this case) from it. How will we ever get any version of this bill to pass when we have stubborn, ignorant, partisan politicians like her in office?

Just my 2-cents

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Wimbly
The guy is yet another part of the DNC propaganda network we call the media. Democrats control everything, have a dozen networks shilling for them 24/7 and he still cant bring himself to do anything but rip in to the "right".

Sure, the Dems do things differently from GOP. They don't form a dark cabal to start a criminal war overseas and then call executive privilege when you know what hits the fan. They don't reveal identity of a CIA agent to punish her dissenting husband. Yep, they typically don't try to really ram things down the public's collective throat -- that's the province of GOP, I give you that.

Apparent you forgot Vietnam which was started and escalated by a Democrat, or Clinton bombing Serbia was it? You could say those people were being slaughtered...well what about the Kurds in Iraq? You really can't have a double standard there. Then we have the latest administration ramming bills down our throats, and I don't really have a comparable scenario for the CIA leaks aside from Kennedy having sex with a Russian spy and Hoover blackmailing him for it...

Unless you were being sarcastic...then forgive me.

Originally posted by A FortioriOBAMA RAMMED THROUGH THE STIMULUS BILL???????

Which one? The first one that happened last fall under the Bush administration or the one that hasn't even been doled out yet?

There have been two, not one, stimulus bills, so let's be fair.

And, it goes without saying, they both sucked. If they really wanted to stimulate long-term growth they would have given every American citizen $50K and the economy would have not only bounced back as people paid off bills (thus giving money to failing banks) or spent it (thus giving money to corporate America) and resulted in the creation of jobs.

I'm tired of people justifying a current administrations mistakes just because of the past administrations mistakes. Bush rammed down a stimulus bill...yes, he certainly did. Does that instantly now give Obama that same right? The right said "it's our turn now" and Democrats complained of the lack of bipartisanship...now the Democrats are toting "it's our turn now"....and use the GOP's use of that as justification. If you think about it, it's childish and irresponsible...and people wonder how we got to this point.

Originally posted by yellowcard

Originally posted by A FortioriOBAMA RAMMED THROUGH THE STIMULUS BILL???????

Which one? The first one that happened last fall under the Bush administration or the one that hasn't even been doled out yet?

There have been two, not one, stimulus bills, so let's be fair.

And, it goes without saying, they both sucked. If they really wanted to stimulate long-term growth they would have given every American citizen $50K and the economy would have not only bounced back as people paid off bills (thus giving money to failing banks) or spent it (thus giving money to corporate America) and resulted in the creation of jobs.

I'm tired of people justifying a current administrations mistakes just because of the past administrations mistakes. Bush rammed down a stimulus bill...yes, he certainly did. Does that instantly now give Obama that same right? The right said "it's our turn now" and Democrats complained of the lack of bipartisanship...now the Democrats are toting "it's our turn now"....and use the GOP's use of that as justification. If you think about it, it's childish and irresponsible...and people wonder how we got to this point.

And how did I do that? I was responding to another poster who said that the stimulus/bailout is all on Obama. There have been two bailouts. And, if you read correctly, I said they both sucked.

I didn't like Bush. I don't like Obama. I do, however, feel we get the president we deserve instead of who we need, so it reflects poorly on us as well as them.

reply to post by amazed


Thank you for sharing your story. I think people forget that at the heart of this whole issue is a very real need for catastrophic health insurance, and equal care. It isn't fair that your pocketbook be the determining factor in who gets to live and die. Talk about death panels...

reply to post by jsobecky


And that stimulus bill he rammed through kept us from absolute catastrophe, such as 25% unemployment and total collapse.

Economists are coming out and saying, that if he AND Bush did not spend the money as they did, when they did, it would of been far, far worse.



[edit on 22-8-2009 by nixie_nox]

reply to post by nixie_nox


And there are far more economists who would agree that if the money had been divided among those at the bottom they would have gotten more "bang" for their buck.

reply to post by jsobecky


JSO we could have rigorous debate if the debate was not based upon "DEATH PANELS"
and the like. That is the point of "DEATH PANELS" JSO, we are aware of the tactics and
general strategy. I liver thru the IRAQ war, Terror Color codes, UNAMERICANS, TERRORIST LOVERS, BIRTH CERTIFICATES and the like.

It is genius GOP marketing - "DEATH PANEL", it implies 1 thing... But what it implies and
the practical implication are not the same.

1.One will not face a firing squad or a syringe -

2.But, one might get a procedure denied because of federal guidelines...

What JED BUSH said relates to this JSO, why not push the last point which is valid???

Unfortunately DEATH PANELS is not something YOU and CONSERVATIVES can base a platform upon because it is NUTTY and DISINGENUOUS.

The second point is based on a true possibility and stands to the test of reason, beyond the fervor of the hyper partisanship.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

This bill doesn't suggest anything else. The consultation WILL be between the patient and his Dr.

...reading from an Obamacare-prepared script.

And this is exactly the mindset... If a person can't afford health care, what makes you think they can afford to hire a lawyer?!?! This is the kind of oblivious statement that shows where the anti-health care people are coming from. You can afford a lawyer. Fine. But for those who can't? Forget about them!

Did you just wake up from nap or something? *He* was the one suggesting that end of life consultations were the purview of lawyers, and he suggested the US Congress. I was only responding to that idiocy.

And before you state that Biden isn't a Senator anymore.... have some coffee.


reply to post by A Fortiori

OBAMA RAMMED THROUGH THE STIMULUS BILL???????

Which one? The first one that happened last fall under the Bush administration or the one that hasn't even been doled out yet?

It would be kinda hard for Obama to ram through a Bush stimulus bill, now wouldn't it? Or are you just trying to impress us with your 'depth of knowledge'?

Btw, you forgot the Omnibus spending bill that Obama signed. You know, the one that contained over 8,500 earmarks that Obama promised he would not allow "when I am president"??

There IS an anti-healthcare mob, and then there are rational anti-healthcare people that are made to look like nutjobs because the mob (mostly agent provocateurs) have created a false perception about who is the sort of person against the bill.

No there isn't, not even the private insurance companies who stand to be driven out of business by a public option.

I am against the current bill but I think bringing a gun to a townhall meeting with the President there is completely irresponsible and sends the wrong message. Why can't their be intelligent debate on the subject? As long as people lie about what's in it there will never be a better bill or reform that makes real sense.

And I think it is wrong to wield nightsticks at polling precincts. Besides, which side of the debate was that guy on? Do you know?

reply to post by Aggie Man

I find it disheartening that she continued to perpetuate the death panel "lie" when called out on it.

The ultimate result of socialized medicine is rationed care, with Obama's czars deciding who gets the care. That is what Palin was getting at.

reply to post by nixie_nox

And that stimulus bill he rammed through kept us from absolute catastrophe, such as 25% unemployment and total collapse.

Prove it. Most of the money hasn't even been released yet; it's due to be released in 2010. You know, just in time to buy votes for the Democrats.

I didn't see Lil' Stewie 'nail' her on anything. Anyone can do that to someone that's unprepared. Looked more like he was slapping around a defenseless kitten.

She shamed herself by proclaiming that she had the answers when she has jelly for a spine, so she resigned.

Bad move, but she did it to herself. And chose (or more likely was forced) to resign because of her national failed appearance.

She could probably take Al Franken's Senate seat with little effort.