GOP can't win so they cry foul; say dems need 80 votes

I would also like to add that with our current party system of government there will never be a bi-partisan bill to pass. If it were to pass, the party in power would get a leg up on the competition and the one not in power would never allow that, even if it means not giving the people something beneficial. Now I am not saying that this is what is happening because I do not believe that Obama's plan is beneficial to anyone. Let me also be clear that I am not a Republican nor a Democrat. I am just a citizen that wants to follow the Constitution.

John Mackey gives sound alternatives to a government option that will snuff out private options. I think trying to fix the current system that a majority of people are already content with is worth trying before a complete overhaul.

Well I think the GOP should get out of politics and get into a field requiring creative writing
and thinking.

They want to up the votes to 80 to indicate bi partisan so that we can have socialisms and death panels?

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

You mean like the way Sentaor Kennedy wants to change rules that he pushed to change for his benefit just a few years ago?

Yeah that one cracked me up didn't want a republican governor deciding who would be appointed to the senate and house if there was a vacancy so rams through a measure to stop it.But now that hes ill and they have a Democrat governor doesn't want the people to vote on it wants the governor to pick again. wow if that doesn't sum up politics huh.

reply to post by Credge


Your exactly right the republicans are doing nothing on this the battle is between liberal democrats and this group:

The fiscally conservative Democratic Blue Dog Coalition was formed in 1995 with the goal of representing the center of the House of Representatives and appealing to the mainstream values of the American public. The Blue Dogs are dedicated to a core set of beliefs that transcend partisan politics, including a deep commitment to the financial stability and national security of the United States. Currently there are 52 members of the Blue Dog Coalition.

This is why the democrats cant get the votes the blue dogs do not want a public option and the liberal democrats said they wont vote for a bill without public option.This leaves Obama with only 1 tactic left see if he can force republicans to back this bill by trying to make them look bad if they don't. After Obama all ready alienated the republicans ramming other bills through with no repub support i think he ha a snowballs chance in hell of shaming them into this.

Franklin D. Roosevelt passed Social Security with no votes from Republicans. Lyndon Johnson passed Medicare with barely any votes from Republicans.

Now they're so popular with the American people that any politician who tries to mess with them is "stepping on the third rail" politically.

I think bi-partisanship is fine in principle, but at best what Republicans want to do is water it down so that the big insurance companies and drug companies still get their huge profits and nothing essentially changes in our health care system. At worst, they want to water the bill down until it accomplishes nothing and then not vote for it anyway.

I say forget the Republicans and get the business of the country done.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Sestias]

reply to post by Sestias


100% with you.

I wanted bipartisanship, but seeing how the Republicans are dicking us around, we don't need their help with passing this.

It's time to fulfill the dream that so many families have been looking for.

Sorry, conservatives, but it's time to come out of the Dark Ages.

reply to post by Mak Manto



No conservatives are against healthcare reform. They are just against a government run option. The problem is that the government will have control of something its not consititutionally allowed to have. On top of that it would have ability to far undercut private industry and losing money would not be an issue as our tax dollars would just bail it out. The end result is one government run plan with no private alternatives.

Your avatar has some text that states, "Trading Your Liberty for Our Security" yet you want the government to have yet another way to control the masses? By controling thier healthcare? Once they sink all of the private options, whats to stop them from saying, ok, now we are doing the national ID card, and you have to show papers to get medical attention. Or any other number of things they would love to pass on the people. Imagine the leverage that an entity would have if it controlled the healthcare of the people.

reply to post by Aaron_Justin
I'll explain my avatar in a minute, but first to your post.

The GOP, yes, states that health care is screwed up. They say, "We need a new system. It's not doing anything at all."

Yet, at the same time, when they have these town hall meetings to stop health care reform, they're being paid for and set up by lobbyists and corporations that want this system to stay, seeing they're making money.

It's kind of dumb to see that this is happening.

As for my avatar:

My avatar represents the darker side of the government. That darker side, though, is rarely from the president.

The President is, in a way, a renter. The most he'll be in the White House is eight years. Though, there are many people who have worked in the government, such as the DOD, NSA, CIA, and many other organizations for decades, influencing what they need to.

I believe in a shadow government, or really, shadow governments. Groups of politicians, military officials, government workers who stay in the background and make their own projects work.

That's what my avatar stands for.

Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, all the way down are not the problems of this country. Yeah, do they make mistakes? Hell yeah, and some of them are big, but the majority of the evils of what happens in this country is done behind the scenes, as it has been for many decades.

Or, the Dems are trying to rush medical care reform through and the republicans see this as something that is not good for the country so they are choosing to stay out of the debate.

One set of facts, many ways to view those facts.

Newspapers have a slant and it's not pro Republican.

reply to post by Wildbob77


Absolutely not.

Virtually, all Republicans and conservatives have been against every policy and view Obama has talked about.

Health care, though, has always been the MAJOR topic in this country for decades, and so, now, when we're talking about reforming it, some people need to frighten others.

But, no, it's not being rushed. Obama allowed the Republicans to have their say in it, to see what they think should be changed, but it didn't work.

All they want is for it to be removed completely.

That will not work. We're not going to sit down when a bunch of bullies tell us to.

reply to post by jam321

Anyways, Reps aren't pushing no legislation to change the number of votes needed to pass. All the Dems have to get is 60.

Not if they decide to do what Congress did while Bush was in office. Reconciliation.....then only a slim majority is needed.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


As usual, your hateful bias is showing, BH.

What Republican representatives and senators want doesn't matter. What Democratic senators and reps. want doesn't matter, and yes Obama can bloody well pass what he wants with Congressional support.

BUT...

There are the voters to answer to, ultimately, not senators or representatives.

Right now, there are very strong objections to the current proposed health care reform, and if Obama and company pass it without answering those objections and changing more a few minds, he and those senators/reps who voted for this thing will likely find themselves voted out of office come next election cycle. For many reps and senators, that's next year.

And before you start to argue just how many people oppose it like I know you will, chew on this:

www.zogby.com...

Universal Plan A - "Do you agree or disagree with a universal healthcare plan that would require everyone in the U.S. to have health insurance with federal help for those who cannot pay the premiums?"

Agree:
Overall - 49%
Disagree - 48%
Not Sure - 1%

Universal Plan B - "Do you agree or disagree with a universal healthcare plan where the government would provide health insurance for everyone in the U.S. under a single-payer plan, similar to everyone having Medicare?"

Agree - 44%
Disagree - 52%
Undecided - 4%

and

www.gallup.com...

Would you advise your member of Congress to vote for or against a health care reform bill when they return to Washington in September or do you have an opinion?

Vote For - 35%

Vote Against - 36%

No Opinion - 29%

See also:

Seniors Most Skeptical of Health Care Reform (July 31, 2009)

Two in Three Doubt Congress' Grasp of Healthcare Issues (July 27, 2009)

Doctors ready to 'just say no'
Majority won't accept new patients under government plan

By Dr. Alfred Bonati | Tuesday, August 25, 2009

www.washingtontimes.com...

Will the federal employees who implement a government-run health care option begin to take the Hippocratic Oath in addition to their traditional oath of office?

Will federal bureaucrats pledge to keep in mind the human consequences of their decisions? Will they pledge, as doctors do, to "remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug"?

I suspect they will not. After all, the employees of the Department of Health and Human Services who implement Medicare and Medicaid currently do not. They simply agree to defend the U.S. Constitution (as well they should, however that might relate to their jobs).
a full 70 percent oppose the health care reform proposals under consideration by Congress. Sixty-six percent feel that a government-run health insurance plan would restrict doctors' ability to give the best advice and offer the best care possible to their patients. Perhaps most importantly, 60 percent said they would not accept new patients covered by a government insurance plan.

President Obama has said over and over that if you like your doctor you'll be able to keep your doctor. This is patently false. If a physician opts not to sign on to a government-run option, and the government-run plan is what you're stuck with, you will lose your doctor. It's as simple and as terrible as that.

The moral lines drawn by my oath are very clear to me. I know they cannot be honored when working with a government system. I will stand my ground and refuse to work with a plan run by people who do not share my oath. Research indicates I am not alone in this position -- but am, in fact, in the majority.

Well there you have it, Doctors are not going to sit by and let this happen and most people I know , can't find a doctor that accepts medicare or Medicaid, all ready.

reply to post by sos37


Uh no, if we do not get health care reform, I know many who voted for Obama, who have said they will not vote for him again. So just as long as he wants to assure he looses the next round, all he will need to do is wimp out to the republican fear mongering. Bipartisanship time is over and done with. The republicans have shown their colors on this one, and that is no we can't do anything that actually helps people and not corporations.

Watching the town hall meeting with McCain earlier today? The chant was "no compromise". You call that bipartisanship? Not in my book.

Not to mention one of his supporters in tears asking him to "tell us what to do". What happened to telling your representatives what to do? Learn to think for yourselves.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by Mak Manto
reply to post by Credge

 

I don't have a problem with changing a few areas they didn't like, but WE'RE NOT QUITTING THE REFORM.

And the only reason why the Republican party is not torn is that they don't have a plan!

Their whole argument right now is that Obama's plan is bad! But, no! They still say that health care needs to be reformed.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T EVEN HAVE A PLAN.

What a bunch of hypocrites...

Actually Ron Paul has had a plan for a long time but You don't know about it because You are still drunk on Kool-Aid... I think what YOU really want is not affordable healthcare but free healthcare for YOU while the likes of ME and the MIDDLE CLASS pay for it...

I find it so amazing that their are still those out there who think this healthcare bill is REFORM. It's not reform at all.

Reform=

Tighten up on Big Pharma so that med's are affordable
Tighten up on the Insurance Co. so that everybody can afford insurance
Prosicute those who commit Insurance Fruad
Fix and Reform the System they already have in place with Medicare and Medical.

Those would be a sign of reform but our government isn't willing to truly reform Healthcare and have people fighting amongst ourselves thinking they do.

If they can take over the Auto Industries, Banks and so on they they can make the Big Pharma and Insurance Co reduce the cost so that everybody can afford to be covered.

Those are the facts! This is not Reform! This is more Control!

Originally posted by jkm1864

Originally posted by Mak Manto
reply to post by Credge

 

I don't have a problem with changing a few areas they didn't like, but WE'RE NOT QUITTING THE REFORM.

And the only reason why the Republican party is not torn is that they don't have a plan!

Their whole argument right now is that Obama's plan is bad! But, no! They still say that health care needs to be reformed.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T EVEN HAVE A PLAN.

What a bunch of hypocrites...

Actually Ron Paul has had a plan for a long time but You don't know about it because You are still drunk on Kool-Aid... I think what YOU really want is not affordable healthcare but free healthcare for YOU while the likes of ME and the MIDDLE CLASS pay for it...

I'm middle class, and that's very ignorant thinking, JKM. I understand you're afraid of your money being used by of people who take advantage of the system, but you wouldn't want to help other people out?

Besides, that's not how it will work.

Though, Ron Paul's plan is BAD. He wants a free market health care system. That automatically states that not everyone will be getting health care.

Keeping the insurance companies and having them lower the costs so that consumers will be happy IS NOT PLAUSIBLE.

It'll only keep the problems. That means, if you have a disease, you'll be unable to get good health care from a company, seeing they will not take you onto their plan.

That also means millions of people will still be uninsured.

Originally posted by Mak Manto

Originally posted by jkm1864

Originally posted by Mak Manto
reply to post by Credge

 

I don't have a problem with changing a few areas they didn't like, but WE'RE NOT QUITTING THE REFORM.

And the only reason why the Republican party is not torn is that they don't have a plan!

Their whole argument right now is that Obama's plan is bad! But, no! They still say that health care needs to be reformed.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T EVEN HAVE A PLAN.

What a bunch of hypocrites...

Actually Ron Paul has had a plan for a long time but You don't know about it because You are still drunk on Kool-Aid... I think what YOU really want is not affordable healthcare but free healthcare for YOU while the likes of ME and the MIDDLE CLASS pay for it...

I'm middle class, and that's very ignorant thinking, JKM. I understand you're afraid of your money being used by of people who take advantage of the system, but you wouldn't want to help other people out?

Besides, that's not how it will work.

Though, Ron Paul's plan is BAD. He wants a free market health care system. That automatically states that not everyone will be getting health care.

Keeping the insurance companies and having them lower the costs so that consumers will be happy IS NOT PLAUSIBLE.

It'll only keep the problems. That means, if you have a disease, you'll be unable to get good health care from a company, seeing they will not take you onto their plan.

That also means millions of people will still be uninsured.

So what are You for a public option that is paid for by income taxes? I am so against that because I pay enough in income taxes which is 25% and 6% in state. Why on earth should I pay more in taxes so some lazy slob can get free healthcare. I already have to work 8 to 9 months a year on a boat with a third of that working for FREE. So You are saying I should work what an extra month for free so some fat lazy slob can have healthcare. Hey I tell You what lets jack the taxes up 100% so I will have to stay offshore 12 months a year. Isn't that called slavery? I guess the liberals are the party in favor of slavery because they want everyone to work for free so their voting block can keep voting them in.....


I would not have a problem if everyone had something invested into the plan. A good national sales tax would be ok for paying for this because then the people that want it would pay for it. We all know thats a pipe dream because the people whom would pay for it would be the middle class whom will more than likely be homeless in 2010 after all the new taxes forces them out of their homes...

And here is another point the problem did not begin in the first place until the government got involved in the medical field. They have been regulating the hell out of the medical industry thus driving costs through the roof. We have seen the numbers of doctors shrink due to the government putting caps on the amount of doctors thus causing the price to go through the roof. The government did all this SO the INSURANCE COMPANIES could make a killing and become mandatory....


Hmmmm Its kind of like when the insurance companies bribed the politicians in the state to make it mandatory to have car insurance. The officials claimed that our rates would go down then because the uninsured would be insured. So guess what happened when it passed? You guessed it the rates went through the roof because the insurance companies had no more competition or better yet they had the supply and the demand went through the roof...


You say the problem is free markets but a disagree whole heartedly. The government only cares for themselves and their corporate buddies and that is never going to change. If You wanted to really fix the system You would stand back and take all the government money out of the medical field...

I myself would rather see the government give out a million scholarships a year to deserving students so they could become doctors and nurses then see it blown in a government run system. The reason I want to see scholarships is because the more doctors and nurses You have causes competition amongst those people in the field. When businesses compete for Your dollar You always see the price go down and the quality go up. Now when the businesses decide its more profitable to work together You get rising costs such as You have today.

reply to post by jkm1864


Because our family works hard, we are middle income citizens who cannot afford the high cost of health care for our children in this economy. Our income is in the low 50 thousand a year, we pay taxes, we pay a lot of taxes. No, I do not have car payments blah blah blah. We do have a house payment and other bills. The cost of living these days is just really bad where we live, along with just about everywhere else in this country right now.

And no, we were not one of those families that bought a McMansion. We have a small home, which was far within our income limits at the time we bought our home. Actually, we qualified for 40 thousand (give or take a bit) more than we ended up using. We THOUGHT at the time, we were assuring that if anything happened in the future, that we would still be able to afford our house payments along with health care etc.

Because of the increasing cost of living within the past few years, with almost ZERO increase in our income, we now live with a deficit of around $400.00 a month, when previously we had enough to put a percentage of our income into our savings every paycheck. It will be very soon that we will have depleted our hard earned savings.

This, without health care for our family now.

My family pays our taxes, and pays for low income to have health care, but we do not get the benefits of this.

Get out of your greed. I am willing to pay more in taxes so EVERYONE can have health care, even so YOU can have health care.

You say the government only cares about themselves and their buddies.

Well who the *snip* do you think private insurance companies care about? Your health? If you think that you are really confused. They care about ONE thing, and one thing only. How much of a profit they can make. That means, if they can deny customers services in any way possible and still get people to buy insurance from them, they WILL.

Who do you think is fighting the hardest against health care reform along with a public option? The republicans? The people? The government? Those who actually think for themselves? (you know, like the lady at McCain's town hall meeting who was asking him to tell her what to do *sarcasm) Or those who have the biggest possible loss in profits ie the insurance companies? I vote the last.

Healthy children will be more likely to be able to go to school on those scholarships you are supporting. I support scholarships as well, I also support great health care for children so that they can be healthy and grow up and go to university. You think a child who grows up without health care will likely be healthy enough to take advantage of those scholarships you are supporting? Do your studies, children who have health care from birth, are healthier and more intelligent. Meaning children with lifelong health care will be able to go to school to become those dr's you are talking about. Children with health care are far more likely to grow up to be productive citizens.

What are you talking about you work a third of your time for free? I think you are still confused. Ohhhh you mean cause you pay taxes. Forgetting the things that those taxes pay for. Like the roads you use, the school system you use, the police, the fire etc. etc. etc. No, you don't work any time for "free", you work for the upkeep of this country. Oh, and let's not forget paying taxes for the war Bush got us involved in. Now that is a worthy tax contribution. (sarcasm if you did not pick up on that)

The tax system is a different thread topic all together, and I myself feel that we have better options for taxation than what we now use. BUT, that is not the topic of this thread. But, I think we should be taxed on what we choose to buy, not on what our income is.

So, you may not be willing to help my family out ie health care for everyone, but even so, my heart would be willing to help your greedy self out. Even IF you make MORE or less than I do. Even if you are a leech.

Oh, and by the way, what did republican Senator Coburn(republican) tell the crying woman begging for help at the town hall meeting yesterday? To ask her neighbors for assistance. So ATS NEIGHBORS, I need help paying for health care for my children. Please send donations to my home. Or send me your address, and I will send you my dr bills. (again, sarcasm) Oh wait, a cheaper way for everyone as well as more efficient just might be a PUBLIC OPTION!

Harm None
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