If we remove Christanity from society, what fills in the void?

good luck 'removing' Christianity from the scene. its funny beliefs are a bit like cockroaches, once you have them they are really hard to get rid of.

besides, to be PC or not to be PC, honestly I don't care. i also don't think it has that much of an impact on society as a whole either.

if, by some miracle (pun intended) Christianity were to vanish from the scene the vacuum would be quickly filled by a host of other religions. i imagine with very little harm done as well.

I have to say I am a little surprised with the number of Christian believers and followers here on ATS. I applaud you for having the belief and faith in Him. Maybe as more time passes (but not too much ) I will find Him again. For now, I'm not that confident or high on faith.

I still have no problem with what Ben Stein said and don't think it should be an issue to have Christian or Jewish faiths represented in our public buildings or offices.

Perhaps I am forgetting much of my history (wouldn't surprise me) but wasn't our country founded on Christian beliefs and values?

Also, thank you for the stars and flags.



[edit on 21-8-2009 by Roadblockx]

reply to post by Roadblockx


I would like to say firstly that Ben Stein is awesome...love him.

There are some good points made in this post. But I would like to address one point made concerning 'God' in our government and schools and what not...

She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'

I believe there is a simple answer to this debate of whether or not 'God' should be included in our schools and government.

If they wish to acknowledge God in school or the government...as an agnostic, I have no qualms with such recognitions.
The simple answer to this is God should not be defined by a belief system.

I say to any athiest, what harm does it do to you if there is a moment of silence for those who wish to express their beliefs in a non intrusive way such as prayer?

What harm does it do to you if the word God appears on money? It appears in the constitution. But again it is not defined. It does not say God of the Bible. nor does it say God of the Jews or God(s) of the pagans.

These are harmles acts and anyone to be outraged over such acts are foolish for wishing to impose your beliefs on everyone else.

From the words of Thomas Jefferson:

It neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket for my neighbor to believe in twenty Gods or one God

In accordance to my beliefs, the government has no right to recognize one religion over another, and therefore the word God should remain undefined (as I mentioned earlier).

Once they recognize God is a certain entity in the likeness of a certain religions beliefs is the day the government has gone to far, and will be the day I stand up and say: No Deal...



One last thing I would like to say regarding why God did not intervene in Katrina or any other human affair for that matter is 1) It is moot for me because I do not believe in "Divine Intervention"..

2) Just because people have pushed for God to be out of these elements of society ploays no part in the personal relationships betwen "God" and His followers.

What would God care if he plays a role in government and other man made institutions?

From everything I know and understand about religion, and according to many Christians beliefs the only place God cares about living is in your heart...And developing the personal relationship between Him and His follower. All the rest is unimportant tangents.


And ones personl relationship with God has nothing to do with government, schools or any other man made institution for that matter...

So the religious people have to ask themselves: what matters? Are they going to follow their teachings and work on their persoanl relationship with their 'God' or are they going to worry about whether or not everyone else believs as they do?

I would say stick with the teachings you are meant to follow and let the other stuff fall into place on their own or through the workings of 'God'.

There has to be some give and take with this situation...Just as the way the authors of the constitution intended there to be...

edit for typos


[edit on 21-8-2009 by open_eyeballs]

reply to post by open_eyeballs


You may have become one of my top 5 posters on here. Very good explanation and your understanding of those wanting to practice their religion is impressive. I never saw that quote from Jefferson either. Guess there really is no place that says which "God" is being referrenced on our currency or elsewhere (or is there)?

Great post!

reply to post by Roadblockx

Are we being too politically correct by removing Christ and Christanity from our everyday life and the result is the collapse of our society?

My absolute honest heart-of-heart answer as unpopular as it may be is 'Yes.'

I 100% support religion (ALL religion) not being taught in public school. However, the recent news story of two educators facing jail time for hosting a prayer over a meal at a luncheon is insane.

I 100% support having a separation of church and state but the fiasco over the ten commandments in government buildings is insane.

Renaming Christmas break as winter break is another unnecessary act. Relegating someone who has morals or engages in self discipline as a an old fashioned fuddy duddy is void of common sense to me.

So yes. I do believe we should not force our beliefs on others but we also shouldn't be so scared of offending someone that we 'hide our light under a bushel.' For some reason, Christians feel obligated to do this more and more.

So, without fearing an all powerfull God people are just going to murder, rape and plunder?

If you need to fear an invisible force in order to treat your fellow human and your planet with respect it is you who should be feared. I highly recommend the book "The God Delusion".

Also, if God is a being of Unconditional Love, then it is exactly that: Unconditional. Perceived sins should not bring about hurricanes and bombings. That mentality baffles me, and it is inconsistent with Christian theology: if God is sovereign and in total control, then God's will is always accomplished. So, if God doesn't want a hurricane to destroy a city, then it will not. Likewise, if a hurricane does destroy a city, then it must have been God's will. Human free will cannot trump the Allmighty's infinite will, can it? Christian's like to have it both ways.

I am not an atheist, I just don't accept any organized religion's claims. They are all methods of control. I see religion throughout history as a social evolution. The Old Testament laws were established at a time when humanity was little better than barbarians- some kind of control was necessary. Buddha and Christ came about later preaching love and tolerance, treat people the way you would want to be treated. Humanity had progressed beyond the need for the old totalitarian laws. We are now under Grace instead. Unfortunately, there are still greedy elements among humans and they organized good teachings into dogmatic religions.
In this modern day, many people realize the level of manipulation within religion ( its in gov't, too, not just religion: both are merely methods of control ), and no longer feel the need to believe in the Christian God ( or Jewish or Muslim, for that matter ) in order to behave themselves. We realize more and more that we're all in this together and that what we do to others we are doing to ourselves. The idea that superstitious ideas are necessary to prevent the majority of us from acting like savages is simply not true.

I am not a Christian, but for better or worse, Christanity can never completely be replaced because it makes up such an important part of our society's intellectual, spritual, and social fabric. In the event another religion or belief system supplants Christianity, it will not replace Christianity, but rather absorb it.

We should keep in mind that Christianity never completely replaced the older religious communities it absorbed. Christianity, as it has been practiced around the world, has incorporated many pagan elements. For example, many Roman Catholic festivals in Latin America are based on American Indian religious ceremonies. Christmas itself is based on a pagan Roman holiday comemorating the Winter Equinox.

Originally posted by JustG

Originally posted by N3krostatic
We do not need the training wheels and indoctrination of religion to care for each other and live peacefully. Believe me it is NOT necessary. The void would be filled with truth, logic, rational thought, love, tolerance, experience and understanding. No more hate, no more intolerance, no more killing for religious beliefs, no more spite, no more brainwash.

I long for that day...

[edit on 20-8-2009 by N3krostatic]

I am also quite happy to leave you alone to not believe as you see fit. If you believe it would be appropriate to remove others freedoms I'll suggest you take a good hard look at where you live and why you think it appropriate to impose your own beliefs on those of others.

Then do so. I am not claiming to remove any freedoms and as ridiculous and as illogical as it is to believe in religion, I know why it is done. I know the lack of logic behind it and the deep denied reasoning that is irrefutably ignored. I use to be part of such until I made the decision to face myself and face the truth I was pushing down.

I know why it is not appropriate to force opinions and I don't, but believe me, you start preaching to me and pointing out my fallacies, I will point out all of yours. I agree to disagree.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by N3krostatic]

reply to post by Roadblockx


Well thanks partna! I appreciate your far too kind words...I believe there is always two sides to every story, and I like to present my thoughts in that way...

I can tell you one thing though mate...Being the perpetual fence-sitter, as someone like me is, gets you no where in terms of having "friends" on a website like ATS that is dominated with strong beliefs (be it the NWO, hating the gov, or religious beliefs). And I can tell you I find myself in constant battle with those who wish to make no concessions in their set ways...but hey, it makes for cheap entertainment, and helps me to learn..Isnt that what it is ultimately about anyway?

I see that society is already rejecting Christianity and replacing it with secularization. For example:
Cross of Nero

reply to post by Roadblockx

If we remove Christanity from society, what fills in the void?

Hell?

I think those who believe the absence of christianity will bring logic, science et al, are dreaming.

I think part of the point Ben was making was that the removal of faith from places or schools in particular has removed moralistic law. While we like to think that parents are ultimately responsible for the upbringing of our children, the reality is, children spend half of their waking hours in these institutions(5 days a week, 9/10 months a year).

Our schools leave impressions on our children, just like parents do. But as time goes by each generation leaves a little more behind.

Children these days are different than 10 years ago, then 10 years before that and 10 years before that etc etc.

Today, the "fear of god" has been removed. Along with the fear of parents or anyone for that matter. We cannot discipline our children the same as we used to. A good spanking or just the sight of a belt no longer works.

This generation of children has got to be the most disrespectful bunch of kids I have ever seen. It used to be shocking and rare to see kids "talk back" to their parents, now it is common and almost expected. While this may not be spread through out it is speading more each day.

This generation also has this unmatched need for instant gratification. I suppose technology(internet etc.) and the credit balloon over the last 20 years can be blamed to a degree. We don't save up for anything anymore we just charge it, nor do we appreciate the things we have anymore or even appreciate life as its wasted(killed) everyday in the streets by kids shooting each other over some bling.

Hence biblical terms like greed, gluttony, depravity come into play. We have already replaced our love for god with the love for material possessions and self indulgence. The more we remove god from our daily life the more we will fill that void with the sins of the bible.


Organized religion will likely disppear, but I think some will hold onto their faith as it was intended.