"Brain wiring creates false memories"

There is an interesting - if flawed - short article (plus a link to the original study) about the brain's supposed ability to create false memories.

Brain wiring creates false memories

Be sure to read some of the comments!









[edit on 20-8-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas


The lure word , fit the schema created i guess.

Something akin to our ability to fill in the blanks , when we miss a chunk of something somebody says to us in a noisy environment .
We take the context ..... and make an educated guess , occasionally with hilarious consequences.


All we are really ... are our memories when you think about it . To acknowledge their corruptibility is an uneasy thought indeed.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by UmbraSumus]

Originally posted by UmbraSumus


All we are really ... are our memories when you think about it .

Absolutely.

And yet I can't help but wonder: considering the apparent perfect functionality of the brain (at least according to the darwinian perception of it) WHY would the brain create "false" memories in the first place?

I don't even believe in "glitches" (the standard explanation for apparent neurological processes, the mechanisms of which still escape science) - but here, by implication, we aren't even talking about an isolated phenomenon. Which makes the question about functionality even more relevant, in my opinion: if this phenomenon - "false memories" - is so wide spread as to warrant a study, no less... what is its function?

BTW, did you read the last (I think) comment, about dreams being perceived as reality AND "time-stamped" as if they had happened before the dream...?

Interesting, to say the very least.

But I am not sure that "white matter microstructures" are necessarily the only explanation.

Lure? All I can think of is fishing when I hear that word.

I'd like to know what other tests with FMRI and those with lucid dreams, OOBE etc. as well. What does this study say about schizophrenics who are dumbed down with anti-psychotic medications? Makes me think of engine parts falling off a car while driving down the street.

I don't really believe in FMS and or that my imagination also makes other people around me have missing time events either. Of course, many would say that's also another false memory.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems to me that there is a lot of potential here.

I mean, think of it this way... there are a lot of experiences I would like to have that I probably won't have, either because it's dangerous (space shuttle bungee jumping comes to mind), illegal ("if he asks me for those costing reports ONE more time...") or just plain never going to happen (Serena Williams - hot tub).

So selective false memories might not be all downside, if you see what I mean...

[edit on 20-8-2009 by metamagic]

I'd also wonder about different personality types with this. Negative thinking etc. Why is it that some people think seeing people suffering is funny? FMS?

The matrix and the glitches with changes in the timeline is interesting. I've had deja vu dream premonitions and supposedly went through some training as a young teenager with remote viewing? More delusions? Seriously, these clinical excuses are really annoying. My psychiatrist now says it's a psychosis. " Yes, you now have a psychosis" " It's in this book" and he holds it up as if to plug his book or whatever.

Originally posted by metamagic

So selective false memories might not be all downside, if you see what I mean...

Of course I do.
But the question is, ARE they really "false"?
They are false relatively, insofar no such event seems to have been recorded in the perceived past of the individual's current timeline - but are they absolutely "false"?
Or put another way: do those "false" memories create para-physical repercussions? Do they provide some sort of CONTEXT for themselves?
Or are they "bleed-throughs" from a very real but currently imperceptible other reality?
(After all, even respected physicists and other scientists are now admitting that "time" is not necessarily what it appears to be.)

And, again, it would help if they tried to explain WHY the brain would make up false memories at all. In science, as in criminology, you usually have to provide a plausible MOTIVE for any given act - or at least look for it.




[edit on 20-8-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by aleon1018



Psychiatrists, particularly those of the old school, will find a pathological label for everything that escapes the frame of what is currently perceived as "normal" - and the irony is, the criteria for said frame are not only much more arbitrary than they would concede (or even realise!), but often obscure even to themselves.

ANYTHING can be explained away as pathological.
But no label necessarily makes it so.

reply to post by Vanitas


It does seem to me that there's a very strong suggestion of the paranormal with much of this. PTSD OOBE etc. I've had some really bizarre memories.

These were memories that were suppressed or repressed, many of missing time events which is another thing he claimed they don't accept anymore.

DID or alternate personalities do appear to also be paranormal possessions. I was given a tape of myself speaking german in outpatient therapy. Another was I was said to have been speaking and old form of Chinese while in some type of verbal chat room. More delusions and false memories? The german tape was stolen by an alleged friend of mine.

Memories are not proof to most people with my diagnosis.

reply to post by aleon1018



The term "PARA-normal" says it all...

In itself it's a perfectly accurate term. The problem is the "normal" part to which it refers.

I suspect this study won't go any further than identifying the various strands of white matter, amino-acids and what-not that appear to be participating in the process of creating these so-called false memories.

But participating does not necessarily mean being the actual ORIGIN of any given phenomenon.

Originally posted by aleon1018


DID or alternate personalities do appear to also be paranormal possessions. I was given a tape of myself speaking german in outpatient therapy. Another was I was said to have been speaking and old form of Chinese while in some type of verbal chat room. More delusions and false memories? The german tape was stolen by an alleged friend of mine.

Personally I would tend to interpret this in light of theories about a common "pool" of consciousness and knowledge. I believe it is accessible - at least in principle - to everyone, at all times. (This, BTW, is also my favoured interpretation of the "evidence" for reincarnation.)

Whatever it is, it is fascinating.
What I find puzzling is the continual lack of whole-hearted research from this point of view. Not everything can - or should - be explained by neurone "malfunction" (especially where there is no other evidence of such malfunction).

I usually refrain from posting other people's comments, but in this case I'll make an exception because I am really hoping for more feedback on this fascinating possibility of "false memories" (although I must admit I remain unconvinced that nature does anything by "mistake", as implied by the notion of "faulty" brain wiring).

Here is a comment (on the original article) that caught my attention. I referred to it earlier in this thread, but I am not sure anyone else read it:

"One puzzling phenomenon that I have experienced several time is dreams being remembered as real memories, and somehow "timestamped" to before the dream itself, sometime to years previously. And no, they are not real memories surfacing as dreams."

(You can find it on the original website, under the article.)


Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

Interesting premise & study. I would be inclined to consider the size of the study group to not be entirely insignificant, but an indication that further studies would be necessary to confirm their findings. Even though the report of the study reflects a straightforward approach, the premise seems to be a set up for confirmation bias. Weeding out confirmation bias is an essential element in the ability to obtain accurate & reliable results in research.

A report earlier this summer highlighted the research indicating that memories don't function so much as a video recording of the event in question, but rather as a chain of memories leading from the first memory of the event, through all subsequent memories to the memory in question at any given point in time.

Originally posted by elfie
Even though the report of the study reflects a straightforward approach, the premise seems to be a set up for confirmation bias.

It does, doesn't it?
That' my impression, too.

A report earlier this summer highlighted the research indicating that memories don't function so much as a video recording of the event in question, but rather as a chain of memories leading from the first memory of the event, through all subsequent memories to the memory in question at any given point in time.

Do you have a link to the report?
Sounds highly interesting.


P.S. I thought you might be interested in this thread, too.
(If you are not, simply disregard it. )





[edit on 10-9-2009 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Vanitas


Do you have a link to the report?
Sounds highly interesting.

Will see if I have a link somewhere. Well, no, I didn't, but I found a similar article. The article also seems to fall within the time frame that I first heard about the study on the news (pretty sure it was a news program on the Science Channel).

Researchers Discover How Old Memories are Re-Saved and Changed

www.physorg.com...

P.S. I thought you might be interested in this thread, too.
(If you are not, simply disregard it.

)

[edit on 10-9-2009 by Vanitas]

Yes, very much so. Thanks.

reply to post by elfie


Fascinating - thanks!