Anyone who has advocated peace has been killed... why?

reply to post by LiveForever8


Agreed.

so the question really is, where do i start? what do i do? who can i get to help me with my endeavors?

That's great but it doesn't really answer my question -- it's just more questions in return. So yes, becoming an advocate of peace involves a "where do I start?" question, and the answer to that is taking personal initiative in our circle, as small as we think it is. "Who can i get to help me with my endeavors?" will come as soon as you start acting - people sharing the same vision will definitely come your way. And then, the exchange of ideas and the joining of forces can actually lead to something big. One may argue about the bullying -- well, let me put it this way: if you climb on the Empire State building advocating for peace, you will create controversy and attract attention at a large scale, but attracting attention like that may not the solution. Attracting attention by making a difference is the key.

Of course, we can't change the world in a day (maybe never!) because there is always going to be government (or personal) interests involved but, ok, let's just think of a simple example. The majority of young men joining the US forces do it because they are poor - they want to get through college but don't have the funds, they want a bright future (or at least any future) and they see joining the army as the only chance they've got. What if we could find a way to create other chances for them? Do you really think they would join the army? I think not. This may not seem like a direct blow against war, but believe me, it is.

I don't believe that the "government" killed most of those people; I'm not even convinced they killed *any* of them. As for Bob Marley, died of melanoma, a particularly aggressive form of skin cancer. As far as I can see, Marley was a victim of illness, not assassination. As for the others, well, Princess Diana may have died as a result of her driver having alcohol in his bloodstream. Not saying this wasn't a setup, but sometimes people die from things other than murders.

But yes, many people who supported peace have been assassinated. I think peace is not a very popular cause in this world, despite what people say. When they say they want "peace", they want it on their terms, not willing to accept other cultures and ethnicities and religions as having a right to exist and act freely. They want their peace. Anyone who comes along and talks about plain old peace interferes with that.

I think maybe another reason peace people get killed so often is that they are easier targets. They're not as likely to have armed guards or militant supporters surrounding them and protecting them. They (usually) practice what they preach, are open, and thus easier to kill. I mean, JFK and RLK had bodyguards and such, but they also went among the people and were exposed to more possibility of violence. MLK, I believe, was not protected.

I think that being a peaceful person in a violent world means you are at a greater risk of being killed. The more people who hear your voice, the more likely it is someone will try to silence it.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by calihan_12

 

Remember the post not long ago that talked about the guy that lived in a cave and lived off the land? I have thought a lot about that post. The guy has no economic delusions anymore. How hard he works determines his survival. It is not easy but it is pure.

No bill collectors, no job to report to, living by his wits peacefully. Isn't that what we all really want? It can bring bliss to a few or to millions. But we give up security, or at least what we view as security. I like technology as much as the next guy, but where has it gotten us. Has anything been made that has not killed someone? The social view is, What can we do?. I say if you do not fight for freedom, then you fight for oppression.....

well, you are right. and i want to fight for freedom, as im sure most people do. i think most people just dont know how to go about doing it. they say they want change but arent willing to put in the effort.

and all this talk from everyone about not fighting and walking away crap... its just funny because life doesnt work that way. im sorry but its doesnt! you have to stand up to the people who tower over you.

I couldn't explain everything i have been doing because it would violate ATS T&C, but i have started a 'think tank', a secret society of sorts.
We discuss these exact topics and take part in activities to promote our cause. Nothing major (yet) but with our numbers growing we will become more prominent.

I started by letting society know there is a problem.

Afterall, how can we begin to change things for the better if people don't even realise there is a problem.

Posters.
Leaflets.
Banners.
Signs.

It all adds up.

reply to post by calihan_12


The reason is quite simple, and two words can answer this question :

Divide and Conquer is a primary resource of the ruling elite, whoever they be at the particular time you want to dignify by speaking about.

John Lennon was assassinated, because he preached peace, not war.

Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated, because he preached peace, not war among the races, this would be unifying the masses outside of Governmental control.

John F Kennedy was assassinated, because he was unifying the people, standing up for civil rights, trying to stop the war in Vietnam, and wholeheartedly against, war.

Robert Kennedy was assassinated, because he wanted peace like his brother, and had both through his brother and his own declared war on the Mafia, as well as the controlling politicians who wanted conflict, or war.

A Governmental equation, divide, or cause infighting, which distracts people from what the politicians are up to, and you can make the masses control themselves through their ignorances and bigotry, and make the job that much easier, to conquer.

War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier

Amazon Review :

Originally printed in 1935, War Is a Racket is General Smedley Butler's frank speech describing his role as a soldier as nothing more than serving as a puppet for big-business interests.

In addition to photos from the notorious 1932 anti-war book The Horror of It by Frederick A. Barber, this book includes two never-before-published anti-interventionist essays by General Butler.

The introduction discusses why General Butler went against the corporate war machine and how he exposed a fascist coup d'etat plot against President Franklin Roosevelt.

Widely appreciated and referenced by left- and right-wingers alike, this is an extraordinary argument against war - more relevant now than ever.

A man divide against himself will can be conquered far easier from someone outside because he has already done half the work himself.

Right and Left : A Control Mechanism of the Skull and Bones Society, the Order of Chaos

[edit on 20-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

blunatic, that is a good point. i know personally, my brother just joined the navy because he just got divorced... was depressed.. out of a job, a house, and most of his money, and the navy pays EXCELLENT and you get to travel and have housing and food paid for. (he is not in the army thank god and is only involved with putting together parachutes)

I feel like if jobs were easier to come by and housing and food and all of that was more affordable, maybe not so many people would join the army. I mean a lot of those people arent there because they want to kill a bunch of people. most of them are just like you or me, and who want a quick solution to their financial and living issues.

Because they had the power to change the world in good ways, for the right reasons. And people followed them.

War is profitable. How many -declared and not- have we had since the sixties?
War on drugs, war on poverty, war on hunger, war on terrorism, war against communism.

reply to post by blunatic


Not sure about that. I joined the military for the experience, which for me was a good experience. Meet people, make friends. Make no doubt in this world today a military is needed, but yeah for all the wrong reasons. The answer i think is to extend the message that was given to us. Peace. There are many different ways to practice it, you choose. The new millenia peace movement. As for how to start it. Your answer is as good as any.

i know all of those people died because they were against war... and they were relatively defensless because they practiced what they preached and didnt promote violence. I know all of this.

But they died... so in order for something to change us people with a head on our shoulders and a viewpoint of what life COULD be... should join the fight and do what you can. Being peaceful isnt always the only answer. Youve gotta do more than that.

I just wrote a letter to congress the other day about how they need to legalize hemp. I dont buy anything from big corporations, nor do i own a car. i am doing my part to boycott the system,... but no one else is!!

ive gotta figure out a way to encourage others to take part, give up some posessions in order to have a better life in the future

[edit on 20-8-2009 by calihan_12]

reply to post by LiveForever8


Very good plan.

Originally posted by orderedchaos
Because they had the power to change the world in good ways, for the right reasons. And people followed them.

War is profitable. How many -declared and not- have we had since the sixties?
War on drugs, war on poverty, war on hunger, war on terrorism, war against communism.

speaking of which, the war on drugs is ABSURD and i just needed to say that

reply to post by calihan_12


Agreed, but only on certain drugs. Like the ones that do not kill ya.

reply to post by calihan_12


so, there you go. Start with finding your brother another job! Then go on with finding ways so that people won't have to join the army! It doesn't look big but it is!

reply to post by Conclusion


Ok. What we are looking for is solutions right. LiveForever8 posted good ideas. How about each poster create a list of ideas that could help. Anyone up for it.

reply to post by calihan_12

You asked :
Anyone who has advocated peace has been killed... why?

In my view the answer is as simple as it is obvious - divide and conquer.

When 'management' keeps us all fighting and competing with each other, on whatever scale you'd like to consider, then there is no possibility for the development of a sustainable alternative initiative ( read : unified alternative ).

This why anyone who becomes a sufficiently influential leader of alternative thought is viewed by the establishment as a threat, or a deadly disease ( like a cancer ) which must be eliminated.

So individual persons, political and religious blocks, all the way up to nation-states are to be kept in a condition of perpetual competition, conflict and mutual paranoia - the 'status quo' must be maintained at all cost.

Trust and cooperation amongst the masses ( read : we the people ) is the enemy - like a deadly poison to the establishment of the controllers.

This is why 'alternative leaders', people like Merton for instance, who become sufficiently influential as to materially threaten that status quo must be eliminated.

It's just the way 'management' chooses to maintain control.

It's not rocket science ...

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Conclusion

 

Ok. What we are looking for is solutions right. LiveForever8 posted good ideas. How about each poster create a list of ideas that could help. Anyone up for it.

this is what i would like. i want to hear imput from different people on steps to take to reach our goals. what youve done... what you think WOULD be a good idea.. anything, just some ideas! thats all i ask.

Ive done all i could think of for the time being. So i need more ideas. Ive done the flyers and this and that, and I need something better.

If you think taking out our government is the answer then you have to decide if you will act peacefully or violently. For the sake of arguement I'm going to assume we all seek a peaceful change. To act in any other way would be counter productive. Lead by example. Our leaders know what is coming. The Dark Forces are baiting us into a fury over their corrupt, indecent, manipulative ways. Maybe a violent uprising is inevitable, I just don't see it being effective or widespread enough to work right now. You might see rioting in the streets here some day but remember your talking about the US Military. You don't want to go up against them. Can't win unless you get them on your side.

The fact is laws have been broken. Our Constitution is being torn and tattered. What have we done about it. Our country that is supposed to stand for liberty and justice for all has been reduced to some liberty and some justice for some people.

well i dont think anyone would say rioting in the streets is a good plan...

i think getting people to see your point of view and possibly persuading them to change their minds if they see things the other way, is more important.

but when people start realizing whats been going on all these years, trust me they will be angry, and they are not going to want to sit back. they are gonna want to fight. its inevitable

reply to post by calihan_12


I started a thread for a possible solution, but I guess ATS'ers are just too lazy for this to work.

How To Overthrow Your Own Government, Legally and Without Violence, In Order To Survive