Chemtrailes don't exist

DID you read some of the comments that accompanied the article, in the online forum??

At least the FIRST PERSON that I read echoed my opinion, in comment, by saying it is a "no-no" to attempt to alter our environment.

This guy, "Dr. Wood", may have a heart in the right place, but his understanding of the daunting challenges to actually IMPLEMENT his ideas....well, his understanding is seriously lacking.

THIS is the sort of incredibly BAD "science" that perpetuates the "chemtrail" mythos.

I realize that these ideas are being spouted, mostly, only from a few, and from the also (mostly) younger set....but, I am begining to despair.

As I age, if THIS is the state of education that the future leaders, the "Movers and Shakers" of the World will evince....well, the movie "Idiocracy" comes to mind.................

Perhaps I should seek a more intelligent country, to retire in.
I'm thinking Sweden....I LOVE Stockholm!!
(??)

Insult, insult, disparage, insult. Typical If you can't win an argument and make people change what they can see with thier own eyes than just insult them and demean them. LOL This is called combatant style blogging and Whack and OZ are well versed in it. "oh yeah that's called weather" give me a break! When a person watch's what you call contrails at low altitudes grow instead of deminish and become a large 1/4 mile wide haze accompaied by many other, so called contrails that do the same then drift eastward to form clouds well thats weather alright. IT's Man altered weather. Spin spin and double spin the combat bloggers will persist you into thier way of thinking just like the MSM does and the Government does because they can't stand people with free thinkin and rational reasoning minds that do thier own research and can think on thier own. They will accuse by spin, of being abnormal tin foil hat wearing goofs. Get a life Man Why do you guys come into a forum for conspiracy oriented topic and try to push your so called normal thinking on folks? Well MR Expert pilot as good as John Lear and smarter than everyone else some of us see you for what you are. No thanks I'll listen to real experts and no matter how much you try to assult us we are used to your tactics so why don't you just give up. Get up and back away from the computer and go sit down with beautiful wives or better looking girlfriends and get out a book and enjoy the weekend in your knowlege that you are smarter than the world and know it all. good day

reply to post by Barkster


Wow!! Rant over?

Insult, insult, disparage, insult.

How is giving factual information, and explaining that what people THINK they are seeing is, in fact, a very normal phenomenom "insulting" and "disparaging"??

If a person thinks, believes, based on an observation of lightning,
that the lightning is caused by sky fairies, and someone who has the knowledge of HOW lightning actually is formed and behaves, tells this person the science behind it...is THAT 'insulting" or "disparaging"??

This is called combatant style blogging and Whack and OZ are well versed in it.

OH, besides beiing "insulting" and "disparaging", now we're "combative"??

Well, if staying on point, on topic and attempting to continue to dispel myths, and deny ignorance on a subject that people could well serve to learn about, then I guess we're guilty. But, I think you're confusing "combative" with "tenacious".

Seems to me the "believers", as in many illogical "beliefs", are more combative here. Burying their heads when science is presented, refusing to listen to reason and logic, and flailing out in attack instead.

...what you call contrails at low altitudes grow instead of deminish and become a large 1/4 mile wide haze...

"low altitudes"? How did you determine the altitudes? What mearusing devices did you use? You DO know that contrails are frozen water ice crystals, right? That means they are ABOVE the altitude, in the vicinity, where temperatures are low enough to freeze water.

NOW....a "1/4 mile wide haze"...again, how did you deternmine that size? Nevermind, it's so small as to be insignificant anyways. If the outboard engines on a B747 are about 150 feet apart, and 1/4 mile is just over 1,000 feet...well, the contrail, after formation, spread around a bit, likely because of atmospheric winds, and mixing of the airmasses.

IT's Man altered weather.

YES!! Finally, you're getting it. You are correct. Jet airplanes alter our environment. So do cars. Trucks. Lawnmowers. Factories spewing chemical filfth into the air. ALL pollution effects, and can alter, weather and our environment.

...the Government does because they can't stand people with free thinkin and rational reasoning minds...

PLEASE get out more, and step back and read that bit. I am trying to bring a rational, reasoning approach to this subject!!! The favorite canard of "Gubmint" as the big, bad evildoer is getting old.

Why do you guys come into a forum for conspiracy oriented topic and try to push your so called normal thinking on folks?

LOL!!! That is very funny, thank you. "Normal thinking"?

You see, it is a shame that this "chemtrail" notion even GETS any traction, because it doesn't really qualify as a valid "conspiracy theory". I happen to think that it mucks up the Forum, here. Sooner it can be shown to be a tempest in a teapot, sooner the real conspiracies can be examined.

No thanks I'll listen to real experts...

Apparently you won't.

@weedwhacker

Methinks, you doth protest to much.

Everytime I read one of your posts about chemtrails they just seem to be doublespeak with insults thrown in.

You in fact have proven nothing to prove that we are not seeing these planes or "contrails." I will now call the "contrails" since I can't prove whats in them, but know that if this was a normal contrail occurrence I would see them EVERYDAY, 7 days a week with the amount of air traffic there is.

What amazes me is the lack of acknowledgment that there COULD be a possibility that this is happening.

I know OZ is considered an expert in this field, even though he lives in a country that has nothing to do with the U.S. and the military history that makes Canada's look like a powerhouse. There is a good chance that this same spraying is not happening where he is.

Weedwhacker:

To disprove me, show me the flight information on the two planes I saw flying in a criss cross pattern(holding pattern was suggested) between 2:30pm-5:30pm above SEA.

Where are you located by the way?

reply to post by brocket99

Everytime I read one of your posts about chemtrails they just seem to be doublespeak with insults thrown in.

I have a problem, trying to explain technical information when speaking in layperson's terms. AND, I attempt to bring the level up (you may call it "doublespeak") but I prefer to call it information.

If you think my humor is insulting, well....writing humor is more difficult than speaking it.

What amazes me is the lack of acknowledgment that there COULD be a possibility that this is happening.

Problem is, to what end? In broad daylight, makes it not very "secret", eh?

"Chemtrails" don't pass the test of logic. The sheer VOLUME of air, and the incredible amount of material that would be needed to sufficiently "pollute" that air, to the degree that is claimed. AND, the "chemtrail" proponents can't seem to stick to one claim, either. That smacks of what it appears --- pure wild specualtion, with a hint of disinfo thrown in for good measure.

Weedwhacker:

To disprove me, show me the flight information on the two planes I saw flying in a criss cross pattern(holding pattern was suggested) between 2:30pm-5:30pm above SEA.

Ahhh....Seattle! ( I'm surprised it stops raining long enough for you to SEE contrails!! ). ---humor---

As I write this, it's approaching 1230 PDT, so perhaps you'll get a chance to see my link.

FlightAware link

This is a site designed for pilots, and other Aviation Professionals. It's more technical than "Flight Explorer", with better real-time information.

The site shows ALL airplanes in the FAA computer system on IFR flight plans, private AND commercial. NOT sure, yet, if it biases out Military, I've never looked for them.

To enter your area, choose the nearset airport (in your case, "KSEA", since it needs the four-letter ICAO code for the airport...or, it will find with the airport name as well.) Lot's of info, there. REAL info.

Where are you located by the way?

East Coast US. NorthEast. DC. Moving to the West Coast soon, though. LA.


[edit on 23 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by brocket99
Believe it or not, there were so many "Contrails" in the sky today that it has formed a huge cloudy haze over the entire city I live in.

You guys are bizarre for believing that this is a normal occurrence.

I totally believe it because it is a normal occurance. Well, it is in the UK anyway.

Originally posted by brocket99
The city I live in has ZERO smog issues, and if you can seen the 2 planes making these contrails in a grid pattern all morning. I truly don't give a care if you guys believe me, I'm simply stating whats going on.

These contrails are sooooo plentiful by these same two planes, that they expand over an hour or so to create a haze cover.

The same 2 aircraft?

I would like to see evidence of this. Here in the UK we get 7,000 aircraft fly over very day and I usually see several - a dozen or more - aircraft producing contrails at any one time.

I have never in my life seen just 2 aircraft responsible.

These aircraft typically produce sheets of cirrus. In accordance will well know meteorological processes. It would be quite bizarre if they didn't - indeed worthy of an ATS thread.


Anyway, can you provide evidence than only 2 aircraft produce your contrails as opposed to the hundreds every hour that are responsible in the UK?

Why are we not seeing contrails everyday by the hundreds if this is a normal occurrence?

It doesn't defy logic considering some of the choices many governments have made for the "greater good."

Are you denying the patents exist for the idea of weather modification using aluminum particles, or that the technology wasn't used in Beijing, or that suggestions of geoengineering using particulates in the atmosphere have been suggested by high levels of the government and scientific community?

History shows that the public usually becomes the last ones to know what is REALLY going on. Take a look at anything from the holocaust to our very own economic situation. Do you really believe we know everything going on behind the scenes?

If you do, why are you on this site? Simply to personally debunk and refute any alternate thought to what we are being fed?

reply to post by Essan


Essan,

In all honesty I do not run around with a video camera, as I do have a life, I work, have a great family and spend time away from computers. My goal yesterday morning was not to get up an prove that chemtrails exist, I am simply stating what I saw for much of the day I was outside...and it was noticeable enough for me to be in this posting.

I wish I had a vid camera yesterday, but I can assure you it was the same two planes as I watched them for over an hour straight...looking like a bit of a goof along the way, but I was following them.

reply to post by brocket99


It's 1430. Same as yesterday. You were watching the airplanes, you said, from that time until about 1730. Right?

Are they there today?
___________________________________________
adding: I see your weather is nice, today.

23-Aug 01:53PM VFR 310° 6kts Few 3200 10 19° 66° 8° 46° 48% 30.09

The wind is from 310 at 6 knots. There are a few (less than 10% coverage) scatterd clouds at 3,200 feet. Visibility is AT LEAST 10 Statute miles. Temperature is 19C/66F. Dewpoint is 8C/48F. RH is 48%. Altimeter setting: 30.09 in mg.

Conditions at 35,000 feet? Not indicated by the surface observation.

BUT, normal adiabatic lapse rate is about 2C/1,000 feet, so we can approximate the temperature aloft, at 35,000 at about -68C. OZweatherman may have access to balloon soundings....



[edit on 23 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


As of right now there are ZERO contrails in the sky, or remnants of contrail patterns. Just big beautiful clouds and a blue sky.

Thanks for looking up the info. SO did you only find info for one plane? As there were two.

reply to post by brocket99



SEE if this makes a picture for you, so you can see if any airplanes paths that match.

flightaware.com...

AND, if there are no contrails, then it's simply because the conditions alfot aren't suitable for their formation.

You can see, though, airplanes are flying by. Plenty of them.
___________________________________________
edit: tried another link. (fingers crossed)

Good....worked. Click on the upper right corner for the "Big Picture".



[edit on 23 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Weedwhacker:

Could you please do an analysis of todays weather and yesterdays weather at the 30k-40k feet level?

Also...can military planes be tracked?

Originally posted by brocket99
Why are we not seeing contrails everyday by the hundreds if this is a normal occurrence?

Because everyday (nor even every hour of every day) has the right weather conditions for the creation of normal contrails. On days that the weather is right, many persistent contrails can be visible. Other days when the weather isn't right, no contrails will be visible.

This is made obvious by the fact that you probably have seen airliners flying overhead that are not producing contrails.

Sometimes the atmospheric conditions are conducive to the production of contrails, and sometimes they are not. Sometimes the atmospheric conditions will allow long persistent contrails to be produced, and sometimes very short contrails.

Sometimes a plane could be producing a contrail, the fly into a patch of air that is NOT conducive to the creation of contrails, thus the contrail disappears.

So asking "Why are we not seeing contrails everyday by the hundreds if this is a normal occurrence?" is like asking "why don't we see lightning every time it rains if lightning is such a common occurrence?"


[edit on 8/24/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Sorry, I was being really negative.

Power to the people! We will prevail in the end!

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Aoxoa]