Weird Sunday School Teachings

I'm in a high school choir of 40 kids, and we were pretty good. In fact, we were the best in the state, and last April we went on tour, where we basicly pick a destination (our destination was New Brunswick) and sing at 4 school, and a church each night while we are on our way. Its a 5 day trip, there and back, and we are singing pretty much all day. Its fun. We were up north, I think a day away from New Brunswick, and we had a concert at this massive church. It was like a normal church on the top floor, but on in the basement was where they had there sunday school classes. It looked like an actual school wing, with class rooms and a game room with air hockey (we played it before the concert, it was fun) The guy's dressing room and the ladie's dressing room were in classrooms, and the guys were in the younger class room, I would guess around 7 years old. It was pretty normal, except the writing on the white board. In huge, red letters there were 6 words:

"BLOOD
LOTUS
REPENTANCE
GOD
FLOWERS
DEATH"

It freaked me out. I dunno what kind of church would teach that to it's kids, it seems too scary and dramatic to be in a children's classroom...what do you think? Is it sinister, or run of the mill?

[edit on 17-8-2009 by summerdreary]

I tried to google it.

No dice.

Maybe some weird "resurrectionistic" thing they have?

the symbology is there but i would only say for a VERY esoteric type of christianity.

Maybe good? Getting away from the crap the "church" did to the Nazerene's teachings? Maybe a "gnostic" slant? What denomination were they?

Lets hope.

I have no idea what kind of church they were, but they seemed normal. THey had a nice game room, and I even stayed the night with a local family. Everything was very nice, nothing seemed very Westborough Baptist like, I was just freaked out to all hell by the morbid writting on the whiteboard.

Originally posted by summerdreary
It was pretty normal, except the writing on the white board. In huge, red letters there were 6 words:

"BLOOD
LOTUS
REPENTANCE
GOD
FLOWERS
DEATH"

It freaked me out. I dunno what kind of church would teach that to it's kids, it seems too scary and dramatic to be in a children's classroom...what do you think? Is it sinister, or run of the mill?

I never heard of that before even though I spent many years in Sunday school myself.

I too googled it and I may have found at least a clue here:

www.lotus.noteworthymusic.org...

The LOTUS lessons are all in outline form, and were taught in Sunday School. Tried to quote Scriptures that could not be argued with.

The Lotus is the name of a flower referring to the biblical position, while other flowers refer to other positions:

Arminianism and Calvinism are for ease of remembering their major points, are in an acrostic form, resembling the name of flowers; Arminianism- ASTER
Calvinism- TULIP
The Biblical position- LOTUS

So that would explain perhaps LOTUS and FLOWERS, which were the ones that had me stumped.

BLOOD I'm guessing may be related to the Last Supper from 1Corinthians11 23-26:

In the same way, after supper he took the cup (called the Holy Grail), saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."

DEATH may be referring to this passage:

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

www.lotus.noteworthymusic.org...

The last 2, GOD and REPENTANCE pose no mystery right?

As for whether the teachings are evil, don't watch "The root of all evil" by Richard Dawkins or he will tell you what he thinks, and you probably don't want to hear it. I don't find these teachings more disturbing than any of the stuff I learned in Sunday school, but some of that was quite disturbing, especially the Old Testament stuff.



[edit on 17-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

I find Sunday School appalling. It's all false christain teachings. You should try some Sabbath services with true biblical doctrine. Hell is a lie. Heaven is not for mankind (John 3:13) and there is no separation from body and soul. Christmas and Easter are pagan holidays. Jesus died on Passover, not "good friday". Jesus resurrected on a Sabbath, not on sunday. Jesus never did away with the OT laws. These are true biblical teachings. Have fun researching them.

reply to post by Locoman8

It seems like you're not a Christian nor a Muslim so I'll use them as examples to be clear I'm not picking on you.

A Christian says "My religion is the true religion, the others are false"
A Muslim says "My religion is the true religion, the others are false"

A person not raised within either religion decides to look for truth, but can't find any objective evidence to say whether the Christian is right or wrong, or whether the Muslim is right or wrong.

Basically neither the Christian nor the Muslim can prove their religion is the right one, it's a matter of faith.

So while you're certainly entitled to your religious beliefs, I think you should recognize they are matter of faith and not something which can be objectively proven "true" or "false" just as the other person's religious beliefs can't be proven "true" or "false".

If you set faith aside for a moment and think about what kind of lessons we want to teach our children, most people would agree that teaching them moral values like love, compassion, sharing, self-sacrifice if the cause warrants it, etc are good values to convey.

Thomas Jefferson thought the teachings of Jesus conveyed such a message, but I don't think Jefferson believed the miracle tales about Jesus any more than you do. So he rewrote his own version of the Bible called The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth to teach the important part of Jesus's message but didn't include the walking on water stuff. His version of the bible never caught on but I'd rather teach my children that type of message of love than all the smiting, killing, mass extermination, "kill your own child because God asks you to" type of old testament messages. I thought that was the scariest thing I learned in Sunday school, that God could ask my own father to kill me. And I was afraid that in my case, God might not say "stop".

So I think the Jefferson Bible might be a good source of moral teachings even if you don't buy the part that Jesus was the Son of God. Jefferson's Bible is probably also a better teaching that what they were writing on the blackboard for Sunday school class.

Indoctrination of the young. If you wany your future "warriors" to be more militant than your own generation was raised, you have to spoon feed them more vitriol than you received in your sunday "school" days.

Darker days are ahead my friends.

Originally posted by uaocteaou
Indoctrination of the young. If you wany your future "warriors" to be more militant than your own generation was raised, you have to spoon feed them more vitriol than you received in your sunday "school" days.

Darker days are ahead my friends.

Hitler stated that if children were given to him their first seven years of life, that he would own them for the rest of their life.

Religion is the same.

Some, as I, get lucky and are able to get out while still young.

reply to post by Misfit
"Hitler stated that if children were given to him their first seven years of life, that he would own them for the rest of their life.

Religion is the same."

Not true in my case anyway. I had christian teaching shoved down my throat while living at the Cumberland Presbyterian Childrens Home in Denton Texas and I won't go to church today. I hear the outright hatred being preached today and It is frightning to say the least and I want no part of it what so ever.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I guess you know all about me don't you? I AM A CHRISTIAN. I am a Judeo-Christian. I believe what the bible teaches... that Jesus will usher in a millennium of peace on earth when He returns. I believe, as the bible states, that mankind was meant for the earth, not heaven. John 3:13 "No man has ascended into heaven except He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."

I don't believe in everlasting torment in hell fire because the bible associates unrepentant sinners as being "destroyed, abolished, dead" etc. The lake of fire in Revelation is even called the "Second Death."

Body and soul are not separate. God breathed the breath of life into Adam and he became a LIVING SOUL. What's the point of the two resurrections if you float up to heaven or sink down to hell when you die? The separation of body and soul comes from greek mythology.

Once again, I am christian.... just not the way you are. I take God's word seriously. Not saying that you don't but there are too many "fair-weather" christains out there who try to reason around a command or law in the bible.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

I guess you know all about me don't you? I AM A CHRISTIAN. I am a Judeo-Christian.

You said

Originally posted by Locoman8
I find Sunday School appalling. It's all false christain teachings. You should try some Sabbath services with true biblical doctrine.

To which I replied:

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by Locoman8

 

It seems like you're not a Christian ...

Well at least i used the word "seems" leaving the possibility open that maybe you are a Christian, I would have felt really stupid if I had said "obviously you're not a Christian" but you got me on that, so I apologize if I misidentified your religious beliefs, I'm not used to hearing Christians say that Sunday School is all "false Christian teachings" so I hope you can understand why I might have been confused by your revelation that you're a Christian, so hopefully you can accept my apology.

Once again, I am christian.... just not the way you are. I take God's word seriously.

I guess you've made the same error as me in assuming you know what the other person believes, as apparently you don't understand my beliefs either. Yes I was forced to attend Sunday school by my parents, and you may therefore have had a valid reason to assume I'm a Christian but you're assumption that I believe everything I was taught is not correct. In fact the Sunday School I went to was Catholic and some people have argued that Catholics aren't even Christians.

I'll have to google Judeo-Christian and research your beliefs then because I admit at this point I don't know much about that, so I hope you're right that teachings of your faith are less evil than Sunday school teachings, I guess I'll find out the answer to that question after I do my google research.

Up until this point I thought Judeo-Christian referred to a common belief that Christians and Jews share in the God of Abraham in the old testament, but in my overly-simplistic view I thought that the Christians believed Jesus was God and the Jews didn't, but obviously it's not that simple and I was wrong. Sorry.

reply to post by summerdreary


Gods Favorite Flower; the Lotus Flowers

The lotus is the foremost symbol of beauty, prosperity and fertility. According to Hinduism, within each human inhabiting the earth is the spirit of the sacred lotus. It represents eternity, purity and divinity and is widely used as a symbol of life, fertility, ever-renewing youth and to describe feminine beauty, especially the eyes.

One of the most common metaphysical analogies compares the lotus' perennial rise to faultless beauty from a miry environment to the evolution of man's consciousness--from instinctive impulses to spiritual liberation. In the Bhagavad Gita, man is adjured to be like the lotus--he should work without attachment, dedicating his actions to God--untouched by sin like water on a lotus leaf and the beautiful flower standing high above the mud and water. In the postures of hatha yoga, the lotus position, padmasana, is adopted by those striving to reach the highest level of consciousness, which itself is found in the thousand-petalled lotus chakra at the top of the head. For Buddhists, lotus symbolizes the most exalted state of man--his head held high, pure and undefiled in the sun, his feet rooted in the world of experience.

www.lotussculpture.com...

www.kingtutshop.com...

Gilgamesh and Enkidu

According to an ancient epic poem, the Sumerian king Gilgamesh –who was thought to have ruled in the 27th century BC– and the giant Enkidu developed an intimate friendship that lasted even after Enkidu’s death.

Gilgamesh could not accept his friend’s death and embarked in a dangerous adventure to find a legendary flower which was supposed to give eternal life, in order to bring back Enkidu from the Netherworld.

This story reflects the character of the Sumerians who gave more importance to art, culture and the development of writing than to warfare. The story of Gilgamesh and Enkidu showed Sumerians that loyalty and love are worth much more than power.

gaygenderissues.suite101.com...

As you can see, the Lotus Flower is God's favorite flower, and eating of the lotus plant supposedly transports one to the heavenly abode. I would say the church is into something akin to Egyptian Sun Worship, which, by the way, all or more religions are based on anyway.

Connotations are funny things.

• BLOOD - in modern culture, blood refers to evil and war, as in the spilling of another's blood (indicating the taking of life); in Christianity, the central theme revolves around blood, specifically that a man who was born without sin spilt his own blood to atone for the sins of others.
  
• LOTUS - I'm not sure of the significance of this, so I will accept Arbitrageur's explanation.
  
• REPENTANCE - another central theme of Christianity, based around the belief that if one is not sorry for their evils, they have not risen above said evils, and if one is sorry for their evils, they will wish to stop said evils, thus repenting. In modern society, it connotates a restriction on life.
  
• GOD = sort of self-explanatory.
  
• FLOWERS - again, I will accept Arbitrageur's explanation, as I am not familiar with the traditional significance.
  
• DEATH - again, in modern culture, death is reviled for obvious reasons. But in Christianity, death is something that is not to be feared, although it is also something not to be sought after. It simply is. Death can also refer to the death of Jesus, wherein the sacrifice of blood was made to allow true repentance for those who sought it.

This list contains many words that, when taken together, form connotations that do indeed seem ominous. However, when they are looked at in the sense they are used in the religion, these words become not only harmless, but singificant to one's betterment. The purpose of a sermon or a class is not to simply read the text of the Scriptures, but to make connections between different parts of those Scriptures and therefore bring out knowledge and wisdom that may not be apparent to a casual read.

The list you saw was probably just a group of words emphasized during such a class, and we simply don't know what ties were used to group these words together. To speculate without first investigating is a certain way to misinterpret something that was said.

TheRedneck

reply to post by autowrench


The egyptians used to put it in wine...gives a a more clear headed,floaty feeling when mixed with alcohol.

I agree. All sunday school teachings are wierd. But that's no different than a grown man believing in the Loch Ness monster.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I also apologize to you and accept your apology to me. Judeo-Christian has a dual meaning. As you said, it's the common belief between two religions, Christian and Jew. It's also considered to be a christain who believes in the Old Testament laws with the New Testament spirit in those laws. We believe in the Ten Commandments, clean and unclean meats, God's 7 Holy Day feasts, etc. We don't believe in celebrating pagan holidays such as Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Valentines Day, St. Patricks Day, etc.... and yes they all have pagan origins. Unlike the Jehovas Witnesses, we do celebrate national holidays like Independence Day, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and we recognize New Years. If you want a detailed look at what I believe, visit www.ucg.org and surf through that website. It's a site to one of the churches I follow.

You stated that you were raised Catholic and that many christians look a catholics as not being christian. Well, as I believe that catholicism is false christianity, protestantism is no different. They are splinter groups of the catholic church and have adopted some of the things originated by catholics such as sunday worship, pagan holiday celebrations, belief in everlasting torment in hell, belief that you'll go to heaven when you die, separation of christianity and judaism when in fact christianity was originally considered a "sect" of judaism. Also, the catholics are the ones that put the belief of Jesus being God. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament who reveals the Father to us in the New Testament. What does that mean? There is the Father and the Son in heaven. They are not the same. Anywho... God bless you.

Originally posted by Locoman8

Also, the catholics are the ones that put the belief of Jesus being God. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament who reveals the Father to us in the New Testament. What does that mean? There is the Father and the Son in heaven. They are not the same. Anywho... God bless you.

I'm confused here. By your above explanation God is a duality, in there being 2 Gods. One, being Jesus, a God of the "Old Testament" and then the Father, God of the New Testament.

May I ask your Scripture to support such a belief?

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo

Originally posted by Locoman8

Also, the catholics are the ones that put the belief of Jesus being God. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament who reveals the Father to us in the New Testament. What does that mean? There is the Father and the Son in heaven. They are not the same. Anywho... God bless you.

I'm confused here. By your above explanation God is a duality, in there being 2 Gods. One, being Jesus, a God of the "Old Testament" and then the Father, God of the New Testament.

May I ask your Scripture to support such a belief?

John 14:7
"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."

This states that He came to reveal the Father. 1 corinthians 10:4 shows that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

Originally posted by Locoman8

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo

Originally posted by Locoman8

Also, the catholics are the ones that put the belief of Jesus being God. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament who reveals the Father to us in the New Testament. What does that mean? There is the Father and the Son in heaven. They are not the same. Anywho... God bless you.

I'm confused here. By your above explanation God is a duality, in there being 2 Gods. One, being Jesus, a God of the "Old Testament" and then the Father, God of the New Testament.

May I ask your Scripture to support such a belief?

John 14:7
"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."

This states that He came to reveal the Father. 1 corinthians 10:4 shows that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

Thank you for the passages but those 2 passages do not state that Jesus and God are 2 separate and distinct gods which is what I got from your post.

It was not Catholics (especially not Roman Catholics) who put or placed into Scripture the idea that Jesus is God. A proper reading of Scripture reveals that the Holy Spirit is God and that Jesus is also God incarnate. That though, when looked at in a glance appears to say that we have 3 gods and not one and if those passages are isolated and read they say exactly that.

Scripture though is a book and is to be interpreted as a whole. It is to be read out of, not into so when taken with other passages we know that God is "one" who reveals Himself to us in 3 co-equal, co-eternal Persons, God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit. Early church fathers gave this a name, the Trinity.

Thank you

reply to post by TangoVooDoo


The early church fathers you are referring to are the early catholic fathers. The bible does not mention a real trinity of sorts. Jesus prays to the Father. If that's the case, He prays to Himself. Not right. Jesus is at the right hand of the Father. They are co-equal but not the same being. The Holy Spirit is the power of God, not God or a god. Jesus was the "Word" of God which shows how the prophets were able to see or hear God. It was Jesus revealing things to the prophets. The Father was working behind the scenes.

Notice one of the "trinity" passages in 1 John 5:7-8. The parts from "in heaven" (v.7) through "on earth" (v.8) are not part of the original text. This is one of the major "trinity passages. It was part of the Latin Vulgate and not part of the original greek manuscripts. The catholics added it.