Ground Zero photos released by exiled FEMA agent Kurt Sonnenfeld- 675 MB

Originally posted by conar

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by YankeeDefender
Exhaust gas temperature at full throttle: 1760+ deg F (960+ deg C)
Oil Temperature: 347 deg F (175 deg C)
The actual flame temperature within the combustor: 2500+ deg F

Now none of us can actually say what happened at the point of impact but with these kind of temperatures I think it is safe to say that it is melting structural steel is possible?!?

Cheers Yankee, that's what i assumed.

Are you telling me the engines survived the impact so they could heat the entire 500 million tonnes building for 2 hours, which led to the collapse?

Remember the whole 500 million tonnes steel building would have to get weakened for the collapse to fall at that speed.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by conar]

I don't want to speak for Conar, but what i'm suggesting isn't that the engines stayed intact and brought down the building.

I'm just suggesting that the at one point the high winds made the fire in one particular corner of the tower hot enough to melt some of the metal in that location, which we saw poor down the exterior of that corner.

Originally posted by Marrr
reply to post by open_eyeballs

 

An oxygen/acetelyne torch would cut that steel. I agree that the photo of multiple beams were cut by the workers.

I am a steel worker and Oxy/Acetylene would not cut that thick of steel. Carbon-arc rod was used. We use it sometimes for steel thicker than 2 inches or where there are multiple layers.

I think what the photo was to suggest is that thermite "cord" was used to rip through it. And yes, thermite cord would produce the same "looking" cut with the slag running down.

Either way it was still a job done by Black ops from the Mossad army that were cught in this country illegally. 170 of them unfortunately were alowed to return to Israel by the CIA, the FBI was pissed.

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by conar

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by YankeeDefender
Exhaust gas temperature at full throttle: 1760+ deg F (960+ deg C)
Oil Temperature: 347 deg F (175 deg C)
The actual flame temperature within the combustor: 2500+ deg F

Now none of us can actually say what happened at the point of impact but with these kind of temperatures I think it is safe to say that it is melting structural steel is possible?!?

Cheers Yankee, that's what i assumed.

Are you telling me the engines survived the impact so they could heat the entire 500 million tonnes building for 2 hours, which led to the collapse?

Remember the whole 500 million tonnes steel building would have to get weakened for the collapse to fall at that speed.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by conar]

I don't want to speak for Conar, but what i'm suggesting isn't that the engines stayed intact and brought down the building.

I'm just suggesting that the at one point the high winds made the fire in one particular corner of the tower hot enough to melt some of the metal in that location, which we saw poor down the exterior of that corner.

You obviously don't work with metals. There is no way that a regular fire with "jet Fuel" as an accelerant would burn hot enough to melt tempered steel. We have to use "Rosebud" torches, Oxy/Acetylene, to heat up steel when we weld it so that the weld will "normalize" and the steel won't fracture at the weld.

There is absolutely NO WAY wind blowing on the paper and carpet and furniture fire would EVER get that hot to melt steel into molten liquid. That is just an insane statement.

Well folks, it has been decided.... Some other pics that have not been in the public domain at all (or seen by only a hundred people or two) are getting ready to be uploaded, and these are more interesting, imo. They are from a first responder at ground zero, unrelated to these pics. Stay tuned...One thread coming up, and it will not be from me. But it will be ATS exclusive pretty much, if the person I talked to follows through- which I am sure he will.

reply to post by daddio


Thanks for the expertise daddio.

I'm now more convinced than not that the molten metal is a good counter to the official story.

I thought maybe the metal was other than that of the tough structure and that a fire fed from winds at that height could reach much higher than normal temperatures - enough margin for me to discount the molten metal as a solid anomaly. Or so i thought... As you say, you're the steel worker, not me, so on your expert opinion i'm pretty convinced.

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Thanks for the link, those photos help to show how things were after 9/11.

Whatever we may think about it, these are part of our (world) history.

I actually do work with metals! What I didn't say was that wind and office supplies made it hot enough to melt the metal. All I was giving were some facts from my knowledge of those jet engines that are on a Boeing 767. During engine operation there is a lot of fuel within the engines themselves, going through tubes and operating valves etc. When those engines made impact, all that fuel would have made contact with the already HOT metals of the engine.

Like I said, none of us, NO ONE, knows exactly what happened at the point of impact, all I was saying was that the pressurized fuel and the temperatures involved COULD have made it very hot, very quickly.

I have a degree in Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineering so I am very much aware of welding procedures. We just do not know exactly what happened, if the fuel came spilling out like a flood or if it was spraying out because it runs at a very high pressure, and I think we all know that pressurized fuel burns much hotter. I just wanted to clear up some questions that were being asked/discussed.

YankeeDefender

I also don't think the OP intended this thread to turn into ANOTHER 9/11 conspiracy thread that really eventually gets no where!

[edit on 17-8-2009 by YankeeDefender]

As promised, here is thread on the rare pics from Ground Zero:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That will be the thread to watch as more of these pics get uploaded. There are some real intriguing ones, and I have been through them all. There are many many.

Originally posted by YankeeDefender
I actually do work with metals! What I didn't say was that wind and office supplies made it hot enough to melt the metal. All I was giving were some facts from my knowledge of those jet engines that are on a Boeing 767. During engine operation there is a lot of fuel within the engines themselves, going through tubes and operating valves etc. When those engines made impact, all that fuel would have made contact with the already HOT metals of the engine.

Like I said, none of us, NO ONE, knows exactly what happened at the point of impact, all I was saying was that the pressurized fuel and the temperatures involved COULD have made it very hot, very quickly.

I have a degree in Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineering so I am very much aware of welding procedures. We just do not know exactly what happened, if the fuel came spilling out like a flood or if it was spraying out because it runs at a very high pressure, and I think we all know that pressurized fuel burns much hotter. I just wanted to clear up some questions that were being asked/discussed.

YankeeDefender

I also don't think the OP intended this thread to turn into ANOTHER 9/11 conspiracy thread that really eventually gets no where!

[edit on 17-8-2009 by YankeeDefender]

In FULL respect for decorum:

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE ANGLED/CLEAN CUTS?

I see no way of getting these at the moment, conventional download goes at 5kbs and bittorrent at 3 or less

[edit on 17-8-2009 by AR154]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Awesome SO!!!
I figure the photos would belong to the photographer since they weren't officially authorized by FEMA, and the photographer has apparently released them to the public without any notice of copyright attached to them. Fair Game in my opinion.

As to the angular cut steel beams, there were other pictures of these beams from the same set circulating that showed rescue operatives with dogs looking for survivors, so the photos had to be taken within just a few days as they were still looking for survivors at that point. Cleanup operations were contracted to CDI (same company contracted to clean up the Murrah Federal Building in OKC), but these are a fire and rescue guys, not clean up crews. That steel wasn't cut with a torch.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
As promised, here is thread on the rare pics from Ground Zero:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That will be the thread to watch as more of these pics get uploaded. There are some real intriguing ones, and I have been through them all. There are many many.

I just viewed the several he had up and they are exciting although they would be more exciting if I knew what I was looking at.....

I will dl the rest when I get home as I would rather not do so from my pc located on a state gov's network. Not sure what list that will put me on.

I do have a couple of questions that the experts may be able to provide answers on.

1) Is it possible that the thermite was used in a way so that after exploding, it would blend in or be confused with the metal that had a torch used on it?
2) How many floors, beams, etc., would thermite have to be used on to produce the building coming down?
3) If thermite wasn't used, what would help the temp become hot enough to melt the steel (which we saw in some of the other pictures)?
4) I admit that I haven't dug as deep as others on here but can anyone expand on the 170 terrorists that the CIA helped get to Israel? I hadn't heard much on that.

Thanks!

I'm not trying to explain the angled cuts. Someone mentioned pools of molten metal, someone mentioned the picture with the piece of engine was too small to be from a Boeing 767, I was just confirming that was an actual module from the engine used in the 767. I also was just answering some questions that were asked about the engines.

It does seem that no one really knows if those "cuts" were made before or after so I really don't think we will get anything that we could all jump on as the TRUE reason for those "cuts".

YankeeDefender

Do you guys know how to have a good time or what?

Why is there a message written in glowing yellow letters at the bottom of this webpage about this site being monitored due to the request by members??

Sh*t starters!

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


Oh yeah! But remember now, they found the passports of the actual terrorists laying out on the ground outside the building after the hit. So...either the government lied about your statement,,or,, some FBI agent was slingin' terrorist passports out of the trade center ;-D

I think it may have been a little both.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by DangrousDave20]

reply to post by DangrousDave20




I never heard about this either.... D@MN It.... I always miss the good stuff.

Originally posted by YankeeDefender
Someone mentioned pools of molten metal

Molten Steel. The someone who mentioned it first in any official capacity was Mark Loizeaux, and was confirmed by both FEMA and CDI. I'm not an expert, but keeping steel molten for months underground is quite a feat, probably explains the elevated tritium levels found later as the exit signs they attributed to this were supposedly removed long before 9-11.
(Frustrated Sigh)
I don't want to derail the thread, this is about this incredible collection of photos, I hope SO can get these up for all of us here to have a gander at. My thanks to the OP, and if he's out there reading this, the photographer.
Pro Bono Veritas.

Wow, there are some very uninformed people in this forum. A simple google and some good old fashioned research will answer most of your questions.

1. First of all, the wall sections left standing after the towers came down HAD TO BE REMOVED before anyone, other than cadaver teams and rescue teams, were allowed on site. The heavy equipment shown in the photo with the alleged thermite cuts on the heavy steel pilings were taken AFTER the standing sections of wall were removed. It is typical in any demo project with large steel sections, to sever the steel with an oxy-acetylene torch, a $400 torch can sever 6 inches of steel like butter, and that is what left the slag (molten metal slag) behind on the remaining pieces of steel that someone has so eagerly placed arrows around. Use common sense, any explosive uses it's physical traits to do the damage, in the case of explosive materials that physical trait is the expansion of hot gases anywhere from 2000-9000 feet per second, that is how they get charges to slice through anything. At those speeds, the steel is superheated in a matter of microseconds, the gas continues to expand, along with molten steel which adds to the destructive power of the blast, this molten steel is a spray, and moving way to fast to cause drips off the edge of the steel, as shown in the pictures, but a torch will leave a mark just like that!

2. Second, the section of engine you folks have claimed is too small to be an engine from one of the planes is only a small combustion section of the internal portion of the motor.

I think it is absolutely crazy that soooooo many of you think that 9/11 was some sort of conspiracy, the terrorists admit to doing it and we were caught with our pants down, we got OWNED! That is it! No X-Files conspiracy, just life in the real World.

Originally posted by Roadblockx

Do you guys know how to have a good time or what?

Why is there a message written in glowing yellow letters at the bottom of this webpage about this site being monitored due to the request by members??

Sh*t starters!

It's on every 911 thread I believe.
I think it's because things get a little.... erm, 'heated'.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I cropped and resized this one, again to fit. Notice signs:

"No cameras or video equipment permitted!"

"VIOLATORS will be prosecuted and equipment seized!"

Same sign on gate in background. I don't remember there being a sign like this on the Sheraton hotel at the Pentagon- but that didn't stop the FBI from taking those videos.

Well, seeing as there was not supposed to be any equipment there, obviously there were going to be things they did not want the public to see. Which we are seeing some of now, thanks to Kurt Sonnenfeld. Hats off to Kurt. Thanks.

Not permitting Videos and Photographs of a National Security related scene is quite common in nature. As a matter of fact, as of now, you are not even allowed to take photographs or videos anywhere on DOD installations, or within DOD facilities.