The Overlooked and Neglected Evidence thread.

Nifty acronym - The O.N.E. thread, has a nice ring to it, anyway back to topic. There are many points that when brought to the table, are then quickly discarded and labelled not important enough and forgot about. However is it not the case that any point that is proved 100% is valuable no matter what?, okay every Truther here would like nothing more than proof of a CD , but un-refuted evidence especially blatant editing, incorrect time stamps, irregular material behavioural patterns, bending of science etc all adds up.

I`m going to set the wheels in motion with this........

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f659c94f2a60.jpg[/atsimg]

Okay, mistake number one is the obvious incorrect date stamp, number two look at the seconds in the 5 frames :19:19:21:22:23, this tells us one of two things the frame rate is under one second judging the 1st 2 frames okay let`s imagine it`s .9 of a second - 19.00-19.09-20.08-21.07-22.06., as we can see this is not the case, then it`s mathmatically impossible for these frames to be shown with these time stamps = editing.

Okay we have now a case of editing evidence, although it appears a trivial matter it is not, this is the only (apparently) evidence showing a plane hitting the Pentagon evidence there is. So are there any more signs of editing?, well I have noticed two - Firstly the box thing (ticket dispenser maybe?) dead right and central clearly shows that the edge of the frame has been cropped, but the frame size is still identical, just look at the red item with white writing on it this cannot be seen in frame 2, why they cropped that who knows, could be something to do with the brown cloud looking thing only visible in frame 2 and top right hand side.

Second evidence of editing - Contrast has been completely changed look anywhere and the colour shades are completely different, bingo I just got it, explains the brown bit also, they have put some type of circular lens or similar object over frame two, look at the top left hand corner also, or could the whole frame two anomalies be down to some form of minor EMP?.

EDIT: P.S.

P.S. How the hell could I miss this point i`m working on something related to combustion and colours atm, and that explosion is not grade A Jet fuel igniting, that is orange and white smoke, that explosion details are exactly like the rear side explosion of the WTC2 South Tower impact, but that`s another part coming soon.


[edit on 11/08/2009 by Seventh]

[edit on 11/08/2009 by Seventh]

[edit on 11/08/2009 by Seventh]

Once again an occurrence happens that shows something is wrong but can easily be brushed aside by, different conditions, environments, none identical circumstances etc, etc.

Okay here we have the 2nd impact, WTC2 South Tower, which as we all know accounted for 3 separate fireballs, but the rear explosion was completely different to the other two in every detail, what I do like about this instance is though, it was at the exact same time thus conditions were identical for all three explosions.

I cropped the back fireball and pasted it next to the front two, it is nothing like the normal kerosene explosions of orange flames and white smoke, a possibility is Napalm, it`s very similar to a Napalm explosion with red flames black smoke and overall flame structure...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4ce5e268b690.jpg[/atsimg]

Once again, a part of 9/11 anomalies widely overlooked, there is only one reason that explosion is not anything like a Jet fuel one, and that`s because it is not.

[edit on 11/08/2009 by Seventh]

[edit on 11/08/2009 by Seventh]

Originally posted by Seventh

A) The second photo does in fact look like it's cropped, but it was *not* by the gov't. Although the orange traffic cone to the right of the ticket dispenser had been clipped, the word "IMPACT" on the bottom right of the photo likewise has part of the letter T missing. This was cropped after it had already been released.

B) Likewise, becuase there even IS the word "IMPACT" on the frame, which obviously wasn't put there by the camera becuase the camera wouldn't know to ever put IMPACT on the image, it means the time and date as well as the wordIMPACT were manually put there,meaning it was to give it a time/date stamp for some other moment. Perhaps this is a date stamp of when they analyzed the footage (the next day, after 5:00 or so?

C) if this explosion looks to be the exact same kind of explosion as witnessed during the second impact...and it sounds like you concur on that...it necessarily means the two explosions were caused by a similar event- the impact of a passenger jet.

D) The camera was meant to watch who was coming into the parking lot. That's all. It was never meant to record what was going on in the background so attempting to use it as a precision instrument for that purpose (I.E. measuring the colors of the explosion) is stretching things, a tad.

All this of course doesn't deny there really could be some secret conspriacy afoot. My point is that it doesn't confirm it, either.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Don`t have much time atm Dave I will do a more in depth reply later, but for now look at this, I put some red lines in to 1). See if the frames were the same size, which they are. 2). You mentioned the letter *T* from frame 2 (impact) had been clipped, it hasn`t. 3). I put two other red lines in to see if certain bits of both frames were running parallel, they are not.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/03c54fded691.jpg[/atsimg]

Also from the 5 frames you didn`t mention the frame time difference nor the contrast shift in frame 2, something has been changed, and my money is on frame 2.

Back later maybe toodle pip .

reply to post by Seventh


Seventh, when you get a chance, would you review this video, and considering the poor quality, how do the colors compare to the WTC crash fireballs? It is a real plane crash, undoubtedly, with a jet fuel explosion.

Only difference, the B-52 uses JP8, not Jet-A. However, JP8 is essentially the same, just has additives for mil spec.



[edit on 14 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

i cant seam to remember who said something in the fasion of

: does the order still stand

and someone responding to it by saying

: has any other orders been given

and they repeted the same question a couple of times prompted with the same answer.


to me this is the biggest giveaway

reply to post by weedwhacker


Mmm orange flames and black smoke, oxygen lacking jet fuel explosion imo, and wtf was that pilot doing?, jeeez that was bad. Back to topic, i`m not sure if I made it clear with my picture of WTC2 South Tower, the layered bit I pasted in was the fireball from the rear of the tower, remember there were 3 explosions with that one, plus identical circumstances so for 1 of the explosions to be of a noticable difference to the other two grabbed my eye.

I`m no colour of explosions expert far from it, I do know however that certain changes in say oxygen, humidity, air pressure, etc, etc, can considerably alter the end affects, but again I will add - 3 fireballs simultaneously, all external, each in exact environments, and one being significantly different, could mean something.

Also this (bah the link I had for a small clip showing impact two has died) anyway just as Jet 2 hits there is some small spark just before entry, you can see this on any clip of the WTC2..... also if you look around this page you`ll see the anomalies of the fireballs.....

911review.com...

/cheers.

reply to post by Seventh

...anyway just as Jet 2 hits there is some small spark just before entry...

OK, I think we have a very good explanation for that, in another thread, thanks to waypastvne (another pilot). Something I completely forgot about, the flight deck crew's O2 tank!

It is installed below the cockpit floor, right-hand side.
__________________________________________________________
edit: Here's a link to a firefighter's diagram:

767 Series Flammable Material Locations












[edit on 15 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker

OK, I think we have a very good explanation for that, in another thread, thanks to waypastvne (another pilot). Something I completely forgot about, the flight deck crew's O2 tank! It is installed below the cockpit floor, right-hand side. __________________________________________________________ edit: Here's a link to a firefighter's diagram: 767 Series Flammable Material Locations

Good theory in fact great theory, but very poor logic. It would considerably lessen the pilots chance of survival having something of that nature, positioned in a place of high chances of impact, that by all means explodes when compacted, I have found a small clip which shows the small spark slightly before or at the very least upon impact, the O2 tank is off set and not at the forefront of the nose cone, plus come on WW, we`ve all seen this video the nose cone apparently exits the other side, i`m pretty sure that explosion if it were O2 igniting would have decimated the nose, you guys cannot have it both ways ....

img300.imageshack.us...











[edit on 15 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Seventh

It would considerably lessen the pilots chance of survival having something of that nature, positioned in a place of high chances of impact, that by all means explodes when compacted...

???

Why do you think the pilots would have a chance of survival?

Hitting a building at nearly 500MPH???

I am really confused at your logic, here.

Will you now discount facts, when they don't meet your "theory" of things?

reply to post by Seventh

...the O2 tank is off set and not at the forefront of the nose cone...

Yes. Your point?

...plus come on WW, we`ve all seen this video the nose cone apparently exits the other side...

False!!! That Bravo Sierra from Simon Shack's "September Clues" video has been already shown to be inaccurate. Don't buy into that junk!

...i`m pretty sure that explosion if it were O2 igniting would have decimated the nose...

Huh? And hitting the building didn't decimate the nose??? You are seeing things happening in split seconds!

Are you being funny, or when you wrote these sentences were you serious?

As Dave keeps telling me and imo is 100% correct, we cannot keep making allegations with no alternatives, so with this in mind, this is my thesis on why frame two has been clearly edited regarding my original post....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c702341ed20b.jpg[/atsimg]

So, what where they trying to hide on the right hand side, at identical time of the impact?.

I think we all know the answer here .

[edit on 11/08/2009 by Seventh]

Originally posted by weedwhacker

??? Why do you think the pilots would have a chance of survival? Hitting a building at nearly 500MPH??? I am really confused at your logic, here. Will you now discount facts, when they don't meet your "theory" of things?

I`m not discounting facts, and please let`s not start to drift away from the whole point in question...

1). Fact - Any cannister containing pressurised content can and will explode when subject to heat or compression.

2). When a plane crashes into something there`s a high chance it`s going to be nose 1st - fact.

3). There`s a very high chance anyone in the cock pit will die - fact.

4). Why decrease what little chance of survival the crew have by putting hazardous devices in prone to exposure pressure points?.

That is my opinion on that, why is it puzzling?.

reply to post by weedwhacker


WW, my whole point here is that spark was at the very latest timing - exact point of impact ie the point of the nose cone, the O2 cannister is further back, so it was not this causing the spark.

Now, why was the rear fire ball completely different in - 1). Smoke colours, 2). Flame Colours, 3). Flame constituency ie the rear was far more intense and dense.

reply to post by Seventh


Boeing has designed and installed the flt deck crew O2 tank in approximately the same location since the B707. In THOSE days there were twoO2 tanks in that general location, one for the passenger cabin. The invention of oxygen generators, and installing them near every seat reduced plumbing problems and extra weight.

ANY impact sufficiently intense enough to rupture, and possibly cause an O2 tank to explode is going to be so severe that the impact forces will be fatal to the pilots anyway. That is logical, at least to us.

Also, there are over-pressure relief valves built in to the O2 tank, we call it 'thermal' relief. In a fire situation, if the tank heats up, the valves will open and the O2 will vent out the side of the airplane, so the tank won't explode. Part of the preflight is to check the green plastic "blow out" circles, on the side, to check they're intact. (A hold-over from old days, of course there are pressure gauges inside the cockpit too...)

In the case of the videos, it is perfectly reasonable that the flash on the right is the O2 tank. Look again at the pdf I linked, the tank is positioned FWD of the FWD Entry door, AFT of the FWD Pressure bulkhead, below the cockpit floor, in the E/E compartment. (Boeing shorthand for Electronics and Electrics. Most electronic equipment and main electrical buses are there. Convenient for Maintenance, on the ground, through a hatch in the belly of the airplane).

Here, it's a B737, but look at the guy's legs.....

www.airliners.net...

Originally posted by Seventh

- exact point of impact ie the point of the nose cone, the O2 cannister is further back, so it was not this causing the spark.

Think of the time span involved, when moving at ~730-750 feet/per/second.

Initial contact, first flash appear to be simultaneous, because of the velocity of the airplane. How many feet AFT of the end of the nose do you suppose the O2 tank is?

Okay my next post is somewhat different in the context of - knowing your enemy, understanding their objectives their MO `s etc, etc. Clearly fitting in the circumstantial evidence dept. but important in the whole (if there is such a thing) warfare etiquette side of things, for every story there are two sides, we`ve more than heard a very bias side of our Christian depiction of events, let`s hear how Muslims do things from a none tainted and stereotypically purveyed MSM account.

So who better to start with than the man himself - Osama Bin Laden and the transcript from an interview with a well known and respected Pakistan news outlet company and very big in the media world of that area....

An interview with Osama bin Laden was published in a Karachi-based Pakistani daily newspaper, Ummat, on September 28, 2001.


In this interview, bin Laden says of the September 11 attacks in the US:

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.


"It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people... "

Everyone familiar with the content of the Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum knows bin Laden is telling the truth.

News of this Ummat interview was suppressed in the US. Between the time of its publication and October 7, the US apparently spent its time creating a fake "bin Laden" interview, using either a stand-in or morphing. Or was the fraud produced by the Brits, as a favor to the US? No, the Taliban Home Video was a ham-fisted effort. The Brits usually have more subtlety.

You can read about the US fraud, "The Taliban Home Video". Attached to "The Taliban Home Video" you will find a copy of a March, 1977 CNN interview with bin Laden, conducted by Peter Arnett. Compare the content and the style of bin Laden's remarks in the 1977 CNN interview with the content and style of bin Laden's remarks in the September 28, 2001 Ummat interview. Yes, it is the same man, all right. It appears to me that the Ummat interview is authentic.

Usama bin Laden Says Israeli Regime is Behind the 9-11 Attacks

KABUL, Afghanistan (Ummat):

Prominent Arab mojahed (freedom fighter) Usama bin Laden or the Al-Qaida group has nothing to do with the 11 September attacks on the Bush Administration, according to an Usama bin Laden interview with Ummat, the Karachi-based Pakistani daily newspaper. In his interview, Usama bin Laden pointed out that the Israeli regime is behind the 9-11 attacks.



He expressed gratitude and support for Pakistan, urging the Pakistani people to continue their jehad against dictators, tyrants, traitors, crooks, criminals, dictatorships and tyrannies. Following is the text of Usama Bin Laden's interview conducted by a "special correspondent" and published in the daily Ummat on Friday, 28 September 2001. [The place and date of the interview was not given by Ummat.]



Daily UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God ), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (saw) for our guidance. I am thankful to The Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.



It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia?



Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims.

The U.S. has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates.



However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of the United States, or the U.S. itself considers them as its enemies.

The countries which do not agree to become the U.S. slaves are China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria [Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia] and Russia. Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed.



According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive.



They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.

Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy.



So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example.



Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department (...Administration - DEA) are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget.



General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.



Daily UMMAT: A number of world countries have joined the call of the United States for launching attacks on Afghanistan. These also include a number of Muslim countries. Will Al-Qaida declare a jehad against these Islamic countries as well?

USAMA BIN LADEN: I must say that my duty is just to awaken the Muslims; to tell them as to what is good for them and what is not. What does Islam says and what the enemies of Islam want? Al-Qaida was set up to wage a jehad against infidelity, particularly to counter the onslaught of the infidel countries against the Islamic states. Jehad is the sixth undeclared pillar of Islam.



[The first five being the basic holy words of Islam (There is only one God in the entire universe and Muhammad is the last Prophet of God ), prayers, fast, pilgrimage to Mecca and giving alms (zakat).]



Every anti-Islamic person is afraid of jehad. Al-Qaida wants to keep jehad alive and active and make it a part of the daily life of the Muslims. It wants to give it the status of worship. We are not against any Islamic country. We do not consider a war against an Islamic country as jehad. We are in favor of armed jehad only against those infidel governments, which are killing innocent Muslim men, women and children just because they are Muslims.



Supporting the U.S. act is the need of some Muslim countries and the compulsion of others. However, they should think as to what will remain of their religious and moral position if they support the attack of the Christians and the Jews on a Muslim country like Afghanistan. The orders of Islamic Shariah [jurisprudence] for such individuals, organizations and countries are clear and all the scholars of the Muslim brotherhood are unanimous on them.



We will do the same, which is being ordered by the Ameer-ul-Momeneen [the commander of the faithful Afghans] Muhammad Omar and the Islamic scholars. The hearts of the people of Muslim countries are beating with the call of jehad. We are grateful to them.



Daily UMMAT: The losses caused in the attacks in New York and Washington have proved that giving an economic blow to the U.S. is not too difficult. U.S. experts admit that a few more such attacks can bring down the American economy. Why is Al-Qaida not targeting their economic pillars?

USAMA BIN LADEN: I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the [U.S. Government] system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom. This system is totally in control of the American-Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid by them. So, the punishment should reach Israel. In fact, it is Israel, which is giving a blood bath to innocent Muslims and the U.S. is not uttering a single word.



Daily UMMAT: Why is harm not caused to the enemies of Islam through other means, apart from the armed struggle? For instance, urging the Muslims to boycott Western products, banks, shipping lines and TV channels.

USAMA BIN LADEN: The first thing is that Western products could only be boycotted when the Muslim fraternity is fully awakened and organized. Secondly, the Muslim companies should become self-sufficient in producing goods equal to the products of Western companies. Economic boycott of the West is not possible unless economic self-sufficiency is attained and substitute products are brought out.

You see that wealth is scattered all across the Muslim World but not a single TV channel has been acquired which can preach Islamic injunctions according to modern requirements and attain an international influence. Muslim traders and philanthropists should make it a point that if the weapon of public opinion is to be used, it is to be kept in the hand. Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done.

Daily UMMAT: The entire propaganda about your struggle has so far been made by the Western media. But no information is being received from your sources about the network of Al-Qaida and its jehadi successes. Would you comment?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In fact, the Western media is left with nothing else. It has no other theme to survive for a long time. Then we have many other things to do. The struggle for jehad and the successes are for the sake of Allah and not to annoy His bondsmen. Our silence is our real propaganda. Rejections, explanations, or corrigendum only waste your time and through them, the enemy wants you to engage in things which are not of use to you.

These things are pulling you away from your cause. The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which makes us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people.

It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that. You can understand as to what will be the performance of the nation in a war, which suffers from fear and helplessness.

Daily UMMAT: What will be the impact of the freeze of Al-Qaida accounts by the U.S.?

USAMA BIN LADEN: God opens up ways for those who work for Him. Freezing of accounts will not make any difference for Al-Qaida or other jehad groups. With the grace of Allah, Al-Qaida has more than three alternative financial systems, which are all separate and totally independent from each other.

This system is operating under the patronage of those who love jehad. What to say of the United States, even the combined world cannot budge these people from their path. These people are not in hundreds but in thousands and millions.

Al-Qaida comprises of such modern educated youths who are aware of the cracks inside the Western financial system as they are aware of the lines in their hands. These are the very flaws of the Western fiscal system, which are becoming a noose for it and this system could not recuperate in spite of the passage of so many days.

Daily UMMAT: Are there other safe areas other than Afghanistan, where you can continue jehad?

USAMA BIN LADEN: There are areas in all parts of the world where strong jehadi forces are present, from Indonesia to Algeria, from Kabul to Chechnya, from Bosnia to Sudan, and from Burma to Kashmir. Then it is not the problem of my person. I am a helpless fellowman of God, constantly in the fear of my accountability before God. It is not the question of Usama but of Islam and, in Islam too, of jehad.

Thanks to God, those waging a jehad can walk today with their heads raised. Jehad was still present when there was no Usama and it will remain as such even when Usama is no longer there. Allah opens up ways and creates loves in the hearts of people for those who walk on the path of Allah with their lives, property and children. Believe it, through jehad, a man gets everything he desires. And the biggest desire of a Muslim is the life after death. Martyrdom is the shortest way of attaining an eternal life.

Daily UMMAT: What do you say about the Pakistan Government policy on Afghanistan attack?

USAMA BIN LADEN: We are thankful to the Momin and valiant people of Pakistan who erected a blockade in front of the evil forces and stood in the first file of battle. Pakistan is a great hope for the Islamic brotherhood. Its people are awakened, organized and rich in the spirit of faith. They backed Afghanistan in its war against the Soviet Union and extended every help to the mojahedeen (freedom fighters) and the Afghan people.

Then these are very Pakistanis who are standing shoulder by shoulder with the Taleban. If such people emerge in just two countries, the domination of the West will diminish in a matter of days. Our hearts beat with Pakistan and, God forbid, if a difficult time comes we will protect it with our blood. Pakistan is sacred for us like a place of worship. We are the people of jehad and fighting for the defense of Pakistan is the best of all jehads to us.

It does not matter for us as to who reforms Pakistan. The important thing is that the spirit of jehad is alive and stronger in the hearts of the Pakistani people.

reply to post by Seventh


In response to the above post, I could not add anything else as I ran out of space, but basically OBL and AQ, Taliban etc are nowhere near ruthless as depicted regarding terrorist attacks, I done a fair bit of research cross referencing terrorist bombings etc, and there are so many splinter groups it`s nigh on impossible to know which ones OBL has been involved in, but as far as I can deduce his ones are centred around military camps and government run buildings, more on this to follow.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Okay WW i`m going to concede for now and let you have this one, only because there does not appear to be any reason for the spark/flash, but after some more research and a case arises that some sort of ignition or starter blast was needed just upon impact, it is duly noted that there was one .

reply to post by Seventh



Apart from WW (although a somewhat irrelevant point atm), and some points made from Dave to which i`ve had no reply on my updates there`s not much debunking happening, also Truthers come on guys i`m putting a lot of effort in here, there must be some points you want to put in the pot.