The end of religion. Is such a position logical?

I'm creating this thread mainly in response to another I read which takes the position that a majority of atheists seek the end of religion. While I disagree with 'majority', it is true that many atheists do actively seek this goal...
But is this goal logical?

Many people are religious because they choose to be religious.
Others are religious because of societal indoctrination.
For those who choose to be religious, if you take away religion, they will still choose to seek it out.
I'm reminded of a friend I had who was 'converted' into atheism...
At the time, I assumed he was ultimately satisfied with his own conversion.
In fact, he was a bit angry at the person who converted him. Religion brought a certain balance to his life. I would not be surprised if, in the future, he chooses religion again, most likely a different form of religion.

From what I've seen, there are three different 'types' of thinking (this is just one way of looking at it).
Philosophical, rational, and spiritual.
Though of course no one falls perfectly in one group or another, if you ask someone which of the three words best describes themselves, you're likely to learn a lot about that person.
For the most part, these different methods of thinking simply don't understand one another.
This is how (aside from ego), two people can argue with one another and both honestly believe the other is nuts.

You simply can't convince someone who is spiritual to form a conclusion solely based on materialism... Because the whole reasoning of spiritualism is that there must be more than materialism...

It's like rock, paper, scissors...

No side is truly going to win, because you simply can't change the way a certain percentage of humanity thinks.

Thoughts?

Religion is merely fact turned to myth, and is part of evolution. it will be outgrown, but only for a more broad, true understanding of the being.

Even though religion is my arch enemy I think the only way to end it is by mass bloodshed and control. However I do not favor that in any way but nonetheless people will believe what they want regardless of how false it is. The mind see's what it wants to and the "only" way I see religion disappearing is through some kind of global enlightenment with something to make up for religion, something to give people another purpose to live for.

IMHO...

People need to realize there is more ways than religion to spiritually educate and balance yourself. But since religion has been around forever most don't want to hear that because it means change. And we know how much people love to do that.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by N3krostatic]

Many people seek out and need dogma.

Many people seek out and need a purpose to their life.

Many people seek out and need a concept of what happens once they die.

Some people just cant accept the fact that we are specks of dirt, drifting around on our rock.

We are meaningless to a point and some people will always need more than that.

Personally, I don't and am happy with the fact that when I die that is it and I don't answer to anyone but my own conscience.

As a result, we will never see the end of religion, in my humble opinion.

I hate what religion does to people on many levels. I hate what religion does to societies, communities and families. I hate how religion - and religious intolerance is tearing this world apart.

It's a shame, but it will never go away. It will only be replaced by new religions - possibly more dangerous and more manipulative than the ones we have now.

Peace,

MGGG

reply to post by TruthParadox


I'm not sure you can be converted into atheism...it's like a not-belief or something. Everyone is born an atheist so you would basically just be going back to what is natural.

Some people cannot get through life themselves.

They need help from an invisable force that they have to have faith in.

Faith means trusting in something even though there is no evidence.

I believe religion was used as a tool by early leaders to keep the masses in control.

It makes people think they are a small part of their own life and have no free will, they have god's will.

Some people need that extra helping hand to get them through life, and I'm OK with that.

I'm not OK with the people in power using religion to get what they want.

In conclusion, I'm ok with religion, just not the fake religious corporations of today.

Religion exists in people's minds. The only way to get rid of it is to control people's minds. And while I'm not in favor of that, I would love to see some of the EFFECTS of organized religion go away.

I don't care if people believe in god or space ships and ray guns or the boogie man. But when their beliefs encroach on other people's lives and beliefs, that's when I have a problem.

So, I don't think it's logical to do away with religion, because it's a state of mind. But we could (and should, IMO) do more to do away with the effects of religions.

As long as people continue to contemplate their spirituality through reflection, there will certainly be a need for some type of expression. Whether it be meditation or prayer, religion will somehow always play a part.

I don't think logic and religion mix.

If religion had anything to with logic, we probably wouldn't have religion...or wouldn't have logic.

Hmm...can of worms here.

I think a lot of folks equate religion to myth, or superstition. I just can't see us, ever, as a race of people being free from either.

Sure atheists can end religion.

State they don't believe in it and not talk about it again. In their own little world religion would cease to exist.

Someone wants to try and talk about religion with them they just state that they don't believe it exists and moves on.

Simple really.

The same for those who are religous. Ignore the atheists and they go away and cease to exist.

reply to post by TruthParadox

The end of religion. Is such a position logical?

No... and it will never happen. Of all those things that people hold most sacred (no pun intended), is their belief in God... their faith. You can take their homes, their jobs, their money but when you start messing with their religion, you can expect all hell (again, no pun) to break loose.

Anyone who sets out on such a course, is acting upon a fool's errand, Just ask Soviet and Maoist communism how well it worked for them.

I do not think it is possible to remove religion from existence. Our entire existence revolves around the search for self meaning. If you look back at art history, some of the very first pieces were based upon the metaphysical. Civilizations depended upon religion as a means to unite people, and they used it to lay down the ground work for moral law. Religion has been both a curse and contribution to society. Atheists do not believe in nothing. Even though they are against certain religions, Atheists do search for the inner meaning of life. All they are missing is the ground work for their beliefs, so they can organize them into a comprehensive religion. Many anti-religious groups are based upon unorganized philosophies, which are driven by individuals who are still seeking meaning.

I can only laugh. Atheism is an actual organization? Of people who do not believe in "A" God or ManGod, scramble the letters around and you got Godamn!!!

Okay, that was funny. You see, religion as IT is labeled was formed in order to control the serfs. Kings, monarchs, chiefs and other "leaders" needed to know more, or to be able to communicate with a higher power to give them credibility as a leader. Once in this position there is no going back.

But, one must have an evil spirit to counter the good spirit, otherwise there is nothing to fear or to use to control the serfs. And there you have it, religion is born. Okay, that was the short form.

Deists and Atheists are relatively the same really, one just "questions" the existence of a God and the other just flat out denies the existence of ANY god. I find this funny. How were these people created? Do they not have a mother and father? Would not this mother and father BE the creators of this individual? Did this mother and father not "teach" this individual about life and try to steer them in the right direction?

How can one write off the Mother/Father creation? Would then not the mother/father BE the god of this individual. I sure know when I screwed up I got my arse handed to me but good, as far as I was concerned, my father WAS God!! After all HE was my creator...............

Think about that for a while.

I think that people have these discussions when they are comfortable, and prosperous, but if you take that all away, and put everybody in a fight for survival, you will see the most powerful explosion of religion ever concieved in mankind. Christianity grew by leaps and bounds through persecution and tribulation.

A persons morality will determine their theology, that is why the most imoral people on Earth have been the despots who kill multitudes of their people shortly after they have eliminated religion.

As many have said, the only way to eliminate religion is to take away a persons freedom. You can't have it both ways, it never works out that way. Freedom and freedom of religion go hand in hand, there can be no freedom without freedom of religion.

Originally posted by serenesupreme
I'm not sure you can be converted into atheism...it's like a not-belief or something. Everyone is born an atheist so you would basically just be going back to what is natural.

Yes, I agree 100%.
I just couldn't think of a better term than 'converted'...
Perhaps I should have said 'reverted'?

First, I'd like to say that if anything tries to tell you what to do and/or how to think and/or act or if it tries to control you it is something negative, at best anyone including myself can offer only advice/suggestions. Now, as i understand it aethism beleives in no god/creator. In my opinion, there is a creator and we seek that creator in our each and own way. Religion is a distortion of this persuance because it tells you how to get to the creator, but more importantly that they tell you will go to "hell" after committing certain acts. I read some material called The Law of One and The Wanderers Handbook and if you're looking for that balance and that ability to be the person you want to be while not having to follow anythings guidelines but your own its a good read. Also, this is just a short reply to the question if you want to ask more questions or comment don't hesitate to send something.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by agentofchaos]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So, I don't think it's logical to do away with religion, because it's a state of mind. But we could (and should, IMO) do more to do away with the effects of religions.

Don't kill the serpent, just remove it's fangs.
I agree 100%
This would mean fighting the problem - extremists.
Then again, I'm not altogether sure there's an efficient method of doing so...

reply to post by TruthParadox


Yet children tend to more readily believe in things that are considered impossible by adults.........

Religion is not the problem. People are.

reply to post by TruthParadox


My feeling is that if organized religion went, people would be much happier.

I believe that the churches are into the business of brainwashing - all churches.

People need something to believe in, whether it be Jesus (as I do) or anything else.

Once the churches have a hand in it, everything becomes about control - the opposite of what Jesus taught. And probably the opposite of everything spiritual.