soon we will have to choose

Im sorry simon, that the totality of change as i percieved it was too large for you,

oh yeah i forgot, you are one of the still lucky, untouched ones...

i cant wait till your bubble gets burst.

May you get a first hand, personal look at terrorism,

Ive had enough, soo take a step back from a peeved, armed, and threatened American....
I didnt ask for a fight
but i damn sure know how im gonna finnish it!
TIME TO CHOOSE!

I wasn't untouched doodle.
My life was affected in quite a dramatic and personal way.
I just didn't see it as the end of the world, got back on my feet, and here I am.
Sounds a little like what you did except you came out of it thinking you now have to fight some bizarre "war against terror" that the world is now split between "them" and "us" whoever "they" and "we" are and I came out of it thinking, "well that was annoying"

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
First thing that should've happened when Saddam fell was local elections. That would have put everyone in the mood to cooperate.
What did the 10yr sanctions do to Saddam sitting in his palaces? Nothing. But they did kill a half a million Iraqi children.

It was impossible to set up local elections. Who were the electorate going to vote for? There was no opposition as Saddam had them all killed. It takes time for a political faction to formulate policies. Democratic states can't be formed over-night. To tell the truth, I even believe that the US is rushing the elections in Iraq. It's highly doubtful if the Iraqis themselves are able to take part in free and fair elections of any sort - let alone know what or whom they are voting for.

As for the sanctions? They didn't kill half a million Iraqi children. That's a total fallacy. Saddam was allowed as much food and medecine as he wanted. Instead, he embezzled the money that was given to him to pay for these items. Sure, the Oil for Food programme was as corrupt as hell from both sides but the fact is that he chose not to feed or treat his people. Saddam was solely responsible for the death of every Iraqi child - not the sanctions.

Ok, then we are back to who put Saddam in power to begin with. I'm not saying Saddam didn't need to go I'm saying he shouldn't have been there to begin with.

As for elections that is easy. With the billions we are giving to this "situation" I could have elections set up within a month or two.

I'm sure elections wouldn't work now but they would have. I could go into the details of how to set up a government and elections but it's rather long. The point is not how long it would take to set the stuff up. The point is that an effort is made to "win the hearts and minds". Isn't that supposed to be part of it? Isn't that what the Commander in Chief has stated multiple times?

[Edited on 5-15-2004 by ShadowHasNoSource]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
Fine. Go have your unholy war. This is still the same old tired war torn planet it has been since history recorded. New faces and new names but that's about it.

I'm not in a situation. I can get along in this silly society no matter what happens. Islamics taking over the world, come on.

Are we back to 9/11? The worst atrocity I've seen in my young life. I still feel the pain for those lost. Still wondering though, how 9 of the hijackers managed to escape certain doom and make it back to their homes with all flights being down in the U.S. I guess those were the 9 that went out for some lap dances. Allah couldn't let them get off that easy.

[Edited on 5-13-2004 by ShadowHasNoSource]

Unholy war? Did i or any Americans called for a "Jihad"?
I think you are a bit confused on who started this war and when.


This war has been raging for a very long time. Neither side is right. Jihad = holy war not unholy war. I was making a statement about the reality of any war, they are unholy.


BTW, your rethoric makes me think that you would rather let them attack us again, to you it doesn't seem to matter...


Is that just the default comeback when someone questions the official "conspiracy theory" of 19 Arab hijackers? No, it's not me that wants more people to die.


About Islamics taking the world.... First, that's what extremist islamics seem to want, wether they will achieve it or not has yet to be seen, but I believe we will take care of them if we keep true in the fight against terrorism. But the fact is that "they are willing to make more attacks like 9/11 and 3/11 to accomplish (or try to) their goals.


And Islamic extremists have the market cornered on wanting to take over the world if in fact that's what they want. Seems to be they are always calling for the U.S. and other countries to stop meddling in their affairs. But I'm sure that's just a cover for their plan to take over the world. And again, what does Iraq have to do with 9/11?


About 9 hijackers being able to escape you better provide reliable links, because i have heard and read so much crap and wild theories that i truly can't remember much about this.

Don't tell me what I better do. If you have been keeping up with reality you would know what's going on and wouldn't need someone to do the work for you. The wild theory is that 19 arab hijackers with crop duster experience and a few classes on 747s could pull this off. If you are trully interested in following the hijackers then you can start here.

I feel fully confidant that I could fly a 747 into a skyscraper if i had to.
you dont have to be a brain surgeon

just get a copy of microsoft flight simulator
keeping a plane flying is realativly simple, turning, banking, climbing...if you know what the gauges are telling you, youd have no trouble keeping the compass pointing the way you wanted and staying level until you could just fly visually into such a giant target.
its the takeoff and landing thats the tought part.
why do you think the terrorists wanted to skip those lessons?
(i can take the 747 off in the simulator, but landing is hard)

one could make a mock up of a cockpit from junk planes to train for the locations of knobs

how hard was it to look at flight schedules and figure out which 4 planes took off at similar times within your target area to know which planes to hijack?

Any 8th grader playing a good role playing game has probably hatched a more devious sceme.

If terrorism is really this simple (and it is in open societies) then expect another one soon enough.

Ready to choose yet?

time can not be turned back !
planet earth will without no doubt survive going trough changes but the occupants will get a ferm kick in the ass of all the effects due to the conflict and not the least h e a l t risques.
if one is too good and too nice to unwilling people who definetly want to stay in mid evil times theory and practise it is time to shut the books and leave them by therselve.
shut down every moneycrane that would have been used to bring them help because they do not want help,but abuse it against their mild donationers !

"why people cannot see through the lies of bush, blair, rumsfeld,bin laden,"

You say that these politicians lie thats not the point ,tell me the names of the any that don't ?

i checked something...
if pearl harbour was the signal to use the atomic bombs against japan...why now the usa is not using the atomic bombs against bin laden regime in irak ?
since the gulf wars are above the level of what happened at pearl harbour i think it is justified to put a "hard fist" against the enemy.
still the pentagon should revise their way of thinking how to get to war !
tanks,trucks and soldiers are nowadays a big nono !
airplanes and especially UAV's are the way to reach that goal:kick the hell out of your enemy without losing
one of your soldiers !

i look much different now on the colourslides of their newest stealth planes i obtained from lockheed by talking to ben rich !

still some ways of acting by the usaf are very strange because it is not forgotten yet that jack northrop had to cut up for scrap all of his flying wing aircraft because ...he did not wanted to pay for parcingfees to the usaf...unbelievable story...but hey we have now the B-2 spirit flying and operational..so let's bloody use
it for the purpose it was intentionally builded.

Im all for a "hard fist" for the enemy, but...

THE NUKE OPTION
In ww-2 we were fighting a nation, therefore, that enemy countries cities were legitimate targets for many reasons. (production of war goods, stroage of fuel/foods, demoralization of that countries will to fight...ect)

Fighting against terror requires a more up close, boots on the ground strategy to be effective....as terror has no "country" to target, we need to get dirty up close and personal instead of wildly indescriminate bombing...

This would go for air power too....it can only do so much tacticly. even the best smart bombs can only do so much.

We need to be on the ground as thats where the intelligence is...the stuff you cant just snap a pic of from orbit.

But wouldnt it be nice and conveniant if we could just quickly end it with a nuke?

Originally posted by Simon
or alternatively we can stop absorbing this whole "the world is now a very different place" "stay in your homes terrorists want to kill you" bull, continue opposing the war till our leaders see sense or we vote them out which we will, and then we can go back to our lives and forget about the whole stupid affair.

This isn't the only war going on the planet.

Bush and Blair want you to believe the world is a different place, that its us and them, that there is no hope unless we stand united against the enemy ( whoever the hell they are ) But its just spin.

ignore it, go live your life, there�s plenty of nice things out there to think about.

edit - looks like the clown beat me to it


[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Simon]

still plenty other things to do ??
right !
but i want to fly with an airplane or go to a restaurant or take a bus W I T H O U T the risque one idiot fool blows himself up in it !