Russia Holds US Humvees as Trophies

MOSCOW -- A top Russian general says Russia has no intention of returning U.S. Humvees that Russian soldiers seized during the brief war with Georgia a year ago.

Deputy chief of the General Staff Anatoly Nogovitsyn says Russia considers the four Humvees to be war trophies and thus has no obligation to give them back.

Nogovitsyn told reporters Wednesday that Russia considered the subject closed.

The U.S. vehicles were seized in western Georgia. They had been used in joint military exercises in which U.S. trainers were preparing Georgian troops for deployment in Iraq.

[source from www.military.com]
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so does this mean we could go to war with russia because they refuse to cooperate with the us government. id hate to see we try to go get humvees and then we end up taking over russia. that would be like going to iraq to get binladin and fighting a war thats not ours.

Meh, we have alot of Migs out in the Nevada desert flying around. If they want the HUMMVES that badly they could have simply looked for them on Craigslist rather than launch a war of agression.

War over four cars? This will be even sillier excuse then war over one duke. And a lot more would die. After this war next Humvee analog would not be made for a looooong time.
And as for Russia - it surely went down from country that kept half a Europe as a trophy to one that got 4 lousy cars (well and part of Georgia that had 30000 military total) and being proud about it..... How mighty fell.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by ZeroKnowledge]

you say the russians started a war of aggression. I think we read different news, cause I thought that Georgia started the war of aggression????

they can keep the humvees as trophies for all I care.

A war trophy!!! Hahahahahaha pathetic Russian's.

Last I looked Russia staged the war in Georgia. They gave Russian citizenship to a small group in two cities and then when the Georgians went to put town civil inserection in there own country Russia claimed it had been attacked because the inserectionists had dual citizenship. Even though the Georgian troops never entered Russia the fact that Russian "Citizens" had been attacked was the sole requirement Russia needed. Besides Russia was looking for an excuse to destroy the pipeline that runs through Georgia because it competes with there pipeline.


That would be like back in the Quebec/ Oca Indian problem back in the 90's if the when the Quebec provinical police moved against the natives if the US had invaded Quebec because a lot of the natives had dual citizenship.

The Russians should return them because they took them from US advisors (which was an act of war) not from Georgian troops.

Let russia have them, so what. There just humvees, and besides, there pretty much obsolete now.

The media lied, georgia started the war, theres a documentary somewhere on youtube, (ill try to find it and post a link)

-Traveler

Any one who thinks russia started the war with georgia is truly gullable,

Star, and Flag.

I agree with above post's regarding Georgia starting the aggression, and to the rest I'd recommend staying up with current events through other means than Fox Noise.

First off South Ossetia, and the other provinces around including the entire Caucuses were Russian, from the get go. They either tried the independent nation state after the USSR, or like South Ossetia were forced to become part of the Georgian Nation. They appealed this back in 1992; so this isn't anything new.

Since the Georgian aggression has been growing since then, Peacekeeper's were sent into South Ossetia.

They were a mix of Georgian, and Russian peacekeeper's.

The day of said attack 08-08-08 the Georgian peacekeeper's turned their "rifles of peace" on the Russian Peacekeeper's, and fired in cold blood; murdering 14.

The Georgian's then took a scene out of US History=Sherman's March, through South Ossetia, raping, killing, and burning everything.

Was Russia staged to attack after said aggression??? Absolutely!!! One of the reasons they were staged to attack was because of the massive naval armada resting in the Persian Gulf.

The USA, Britain, France, and Israel had amassed the largest naval fleet in the Persian Gulf ever.

Russia is Iran's 7th largest trading partner. The Russians knew in order for a successful attack to work against Iran that the US/Brits/French/Israelis would need to tie them up with another small war.

That's how Russia knew, and was ready.

Let them keep the G*d D*mn hummers.

If Russia hadn't been prepared, then we'd have been in WW3 Now.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]

Originally posted by exile1981
Last I looked Russia staged the war in Georgia.

If you consider Georgian soldiers killing friendly Russian peacekeepers without warning and bombing/shelling the crap out of Tskhinvali civilians as Russian staging, then you should probably go and do some more research instead of watching American news.

And big deal, four hummers. It's not like the Russian commander made a statement to the media in order to bloat a year later, he's just responding to a stupid question of if he's going to resupply a nation that killed his fellow countrymen with more weapons to kill more of his people in cowardice. If I were him, I'd stick a ballistic missile to each of the hummers and return to sender.

Originally posted by texasoutlaw
id hate to see we try to go get humvees and then we end up taking over russia. that would be like going to iraq to get binladin and fighting a war thats not ours.

"Invade" ?? Thats ridiculous!

Unlike Iraq or most any other nation bar the US, Russia has more nukes than Tanks and dozens of ways that they can send them over! Even the most hawkish crazy brave bureaucrat today wont think of "occupying" or "invading" when they think of options against Russia!

Originally posted by Lucifersjester
Any one who thinks russia started the war with georgia is truly gullable,

One could say if you believe the one-sided Russian story then you are gullible. Notice how Russia today has one-sided anecdotal, and no real proof to confirm that Georgia attacked before tanks were sent through the tunnel. Georgia has evidence that a 2nd group of tanks were coming thru' before attacking. The Georgian president made a rushed a decision that may have been the incorrect one. But he has to defend his country, and there's no knowing what would have happened if he hadn't.

Firstly, I do realise that Georgia killed a lot of civilians. So did Russia, and in war this happens, and you can't distinguish the instigators from that alone. And I would be willing to state that it's likely Russia killed more civilians than Georgia. Russia even attacked journalists in their fighter jets. Of course Russia Today would broadcast those who were in the cross-fire of Georgian mortars and rockets for propaganda use. Where do you think the Iranian regime gets its propaganda ideals from?? Russia, of course!

Secondly, Russia were claiming 1,500 people had been killed, when in fact that figure was much much lower (162 according to Russia on wikipedia). Not a genocide, and 228 Georgian civilians lost their lives as well. And what was the purpose of Russia's little excursion into Georgia proper all about eh??!! Why take over Poti, why go so far South into Georgia proper?? Why steal NATO equipment and US Humvees, that aren't theirs to take!! It doesn't help with Russia's credibility if they steal other people's hardware & equipment. Russian soldiers even nicked NATO standard boots because their own were sub-standard in comparison.

At the time the Russian foreign minister was one minute stating they didn't have troops in S.Ossetia, then saying yes they do, but not in Georgia proper, and then later admitting they were as far south as Poti!!! The Russian position now is even unclear when they state that Georgia is re-arming for another attack with a stronger army than before, and then claim that the Georgian army is too weak to attack. Obviously Georgia will not try and re-take S.Ossetia. they wouldn't fight a war they cannot win knowing they don't have NATO backing.

Does Russia have control over S.Ossetian's, as recent provocations may be linked to locals firing over the border, as well as accusations that Russia are extending the border posts. Are Georgia to blame if they are returning mortars when rockets have been fired from S.Ossetia last week? It's a relief that nobody was killed, and Russia have the responsibility to keep control of its army and S.Ossetian's who think its acceptable to provoke the Georgian army because the Russian's are there to protect them.

Georgia would have too much to lose if it attempted to retake the lost territory, but Russia still insists Georgia must not arm itself. Yet Russia maintains a strong military presence in S.Ossetia, and they don't think Georgia has the right to re-arm itself - hypocrisy!!... complete hypocrisy!!! Any country would want to arm themselves well when Russian soldiers are a few miles away!!!

And what's this all about when the Russian's won't allow EU monitors into S.Ossetia and Abkhazia. Nothing to hide I suppose you would say, but it doesn't look that way to me. Maybe the Russian's don't want us to talk to the locals because they will give a less-biased view that incriminates Russia. Rather, Russia would prefer us to accept their Russia Today propaganda based on those S.Ossetian's that agree with their side of the story.

It's funny how Russia Today uses American terminology to appeal to Americans, who are naive & gullible enough to believe their one-sided propaganda which is often a lie. They even recruit American's who were living there, and it's quite clear they have been brainwashed under the Russian doctrine in control. And the youngsters are too young to completely understand what was going on.

And since the majority of ethnic Georgian's left S.Ossetia last year, it's not surprising that the ethnic-Russian's living there will take Russia's side, as they even have Russian passports. Russia have even been handing out Russian passports in Crimea, Ukraine.

Did you know that S.Ossetia has traditionally been part of Georgia for over 1000 years?

Russia are building houses in S.Ossetia, which is a typical communist bribe to win over the people. The Kremlin officials are ex-Soviet officials, and they run things under the same communist doctrine. I hope they've realised they've picked a friend who would turn their backs on them should it suit the Russians, as they are doing what is in their interests, not S.Ossetians. This may be the same for now, but don't expect that to last 1000 years.

And handing out passports must cost money, and Russia aren't doing it for the kindness of their heart, and so it's all based entirely on an agenda that suits themselves only. And remember the fuel-depots that Russia put in place in Abkhazia months ahead of the war as preparations for invasion.

Although it does seem independence is the best way forward for them after the events of last year as we are where we are, and there's no way back. But this should have been done in cooperation & recognition with the EU, and Russia need to try harder to convince the EU that this is an independent country, and not just part of Russia. Unless that is not in Russia's best interests, then we won't see Russia doing that any time soon.

I could argue that it is in Russia's best interests to let the S.Ossetian's provoke the Georgian's into another conflict, which gives Russia the opportunity to invade the rest of Georgia. I don't think that will happen, but if it does I know it's likely Russia will have made it part of their agenda. Russia tried to set-up Georgia last time, but most people haven't been fooled.

Russia may have won militarily last year, but their propaganda has not, and if Russia is setting up Georgia again, then the same outcome will unfortunately prevail. But fortunately most will not be fooled by the Russian propaganda.

Have you watched Russia Today (RT) on TV, that is directed at the west and especially the US, as it's in english with a few versions in other languages??? All they show is S.Ossetia all day.... with their one-sided bias!! Not one other piece of news is broadcast. OK... last years war and the anniversary are important, but it's not the only news to broadcast. This is a key indication that this TV station is meant as propaganda purposes only towards gullible westerners.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by john124]

The nerve of those ballsy Russians! Four Hummers!

Yep, if we don't nuke 'em now, the next thing you know, they'll be stealing a deuce and a half, cutting in line, or talking while the movie is running.

This behavior cannot under any circumstance be tolerated.

We must save face!

We much attack immediately.

Originally posted by dooper
The nerve of those ballsy Russians! Four Hummers!

Yep, if we don't nuke 'em now, the next thing you know, they'll be stealing a deuce and a half, cutting in line, or talking while the movie is running.

This behavior cannot under any circumstance be tolerated.

We must save face!

We much attack immediately.

Nah, these kind of people just make themselves look silly by their actions. Best just to let them embarrass themselves. Obviously these Humvees are more advanced than their own, so they will refuse to give them back. OK, maybe not so bad to keep them, but to proclaim them as trophies is laughable for a country that used to be so powerful as part of the Soviet Union.

The communist doctrine that the Kremlim still operate under repeats its same mistakes over and over again, and will just lead to another collapse eventually. The Soviet Union collapsed, the Islamic regime in Iran is a 30 year experiment in Islamic-communism+fascism..... and is collapsing! it seems they never learn!

Yeah I know capitalism has ******* up as well before anybody goes on to say that the west is collapsing or collapsed as well.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by exile1981
Last I looked Russia staged the war in Georgia.

If you consider Georgian soldiers killing friendly Russian peacekeepers without warning and bombing/shelling the crap out of Tskhinvali civilians as Russian staging, then you should probably go and do some more research instead of watching American news.

And big deal, four hummers. It's not like the Russian commander made a statement to the media in order to bloat a year later, he's just responding to a stupid question of if he's going to resupply a nation that killed his fellow countrymen with more weapons to kill more of his people in cowardice. If I were him, I'd stick a ballistic missile to each of the hummers and return to sender.

Hmmm maybe you should research more than Russian news sources..... that can be extremely biased to a point that is completely ridiculous.

Russia had been arming S.Ossetian's for months, and the Georgian attack was only after a 2nd column of tanks were coming thru' the tunnel area. I do think the Georgian President may have made a rash decision, but he does state that he pleaded with certain western governments to listen to him, but never did! You could arguable associate as much blame on western leaders such as Bush for promising him NATO membership, and not listening when he needed somebody to talk to the Russian's to see what was going on. It's good to see that at least Obama has been discussing recent tensions with President Medvedev.

Also provocations came from within S.Ossetia from these armed rebels who fired at Georgian troops in Georgia proper. Russia set-up Georgia for the fall.

Anyway I'm not surprised people here and elsewhere are taken in with foreign propaganda from Russia, and often from Iran, as some people still believe that Apollo 11 Moon landing was hoaxed... so a good number of humans are clueless people. That figure is quite high!

I know you will probably end up replying with the same repeated worn out reply that US news is propaganda etc. But not all US news is Fox, and not all western news is American. And whatever weak argument you may have for such a claim, it would be utterly irrelevant as it does not change the fact that Russian propaganda does exist! And you can see it on Russia Today (RT) on freeview in the UK! RT on television consists of a constant barrage of false and/or exaggerated reports from S.Ossetia, and ironically no EU monitors as they're not allowed inside!

[edit on 9-8-2009 by john124]

reply to post by john124


So, in what light do you see the fact that Russia captured/killed US, and Israeli commando's who were leading the attack? They've got the bodies.

Also, your throwing around the word Propaganda a lot with Russia? Besides your intuition, or perception where's your proof?

To that what are these agencies, and propaganda divisions called?

The US openly has created new Commands for information 'distortion'.............see InfoCom CyberCom

www.globalspecialoperations.com...

[edit on 9-8-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
reply to post by john124

 

So, in what light do you see the fact that Russia captured/killed US, and Israeli commando's who were leading the attack? They've got the bodies.

Also, your throwing around the word Propaganda a lot with Russia? Besides your intuition, or perception where's your proof?

To that what are these agencies, and propaganda divisions called?

The US openly has created new Commands for information 'distortion'.............see InfoCom CyberCom

www.globalspecialoperations.com...

[edit on 9-8-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]

Where's the proof of those bodies & captured Israeli's and American soldiers?? Why doesn't Russia actually provide proof to the EU about this?

It's blindingly obvious that certain Russia sites and TV stations that devote all of their time and space to one issue - S.Ossetia are propaganda based. For two reasons: they talk of nothing else, and it's entirely one-sided.

It would also help if Russia allowed EU monitors into S.Ossetia, then I would take their claims a little more crediblity. As I said before, Russia have themselves to blame for not being taken seriously, presuming that there is even a tiny chance their story is accurate.

I have observed that recent provocations have shown that both sides in the media have simply gone insane. By that I mean Russian and Georgian sources that have been posted on the "Georgia & Russia updates" thread. Western media are ignoring these for now, and rightfully so.

I think you are deluding yourself with little stories based on Russian propaganda and shoddy websites. It doesn't really prove anything, and doesn't fit any observations. And to make a leap from there to here is far-fetched.

All Russia has to do to discredit the US is show the EU the captured soldiers, unless you think the US has some miraculous magical powers.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by john124]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


www.globalspecialoperations.com...

The broadcasts continued for weeks after the air campaign ended
in June of 1999, because NATO initially had no other means of
reActive Componenthing the populations in the area.

That article is a joke. It fails to connect some otherwise irrelevant real sources that has nothing to do with the original claims being made. And before this vast leaps of faith are required to make the assumptions made.

And what language is "componenthing". I googled it and this was the only source. Sorry, but this site is all garbage. Make you mind up from the facts and connect them using intuition. If you regurgitate somebody else's opinion then you aren't really thinking for yourself.

The assumptions of the "United States Army Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command" you are making is wild conjecture.

The real purpose of these are: en.wikipedia.org...

Civil Affairs is the commander’s sole link between the US Army and host nation authorities. The soldiers provide general support functional specialty teams which interface and provide expertise to the host nation government. The CAPOC soldiers are particularly suited for this mission since they are reservists with civilian occupations such as law enforcement, engineering, medicine, law, banking, public administration, etc.

Civil Affairs Special Operators have been responsible for “nation-building” in countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan. Its direct support tactical teams will go out and meet with local officials, conduct assessments, and determine the need for critical infrastructure projects such as roads, schools, power plants, clinics, sewer lines, etc., and check up on the status of the project after construction by a local company has begun.
CAPOC pamphlet disseminated in Iraq. The text translates as, "This is your future al-Zarqawi," and depicts al-Qaeda terrorist al-Zarqawi caught in a rat trap. The arm holding up the trap has the Iraqi flag on it.

Psychological Operations soldiers provide critical support to the commander by changing and influencing behavior of a local national target audience. The goal of this is to encourage the target audience to behave in a way that aids the commander in achieving his goals and objectives. These desired behavior changes range from supporting the local governments and not attacking military forces to reporting crime and participating in elections. 'PSYOP' is only used in the host nation country. It is not to be confused with Public Affairs, directed at the American Public.

Some proponents of CAPOC point to its success in humanitarian aid operations, and also in its ability to spread information to civilians. Its special operators are some of the most highly trained soldiers in the U.S. Army bringing civilian expertise not found among regular active duty soldiers, and the projects they complete comprise many of the 'Good News' stories run in the American media each day about Iraq and Afghanistan.

Civil Affairs is comprised primarily of civilian experts such as doctors, lawyers, engineers, police, firefighters, bankers, engineers, computer programmers, farmers, and others, CA special operators provide critical expertise to host-nation governments and are also able to assess need for critical infrastructure projects such as roads, clinics, schools, power plants, water treatment facilities, etc., and it is the job of Psychological Operations to keep the general populace in the host nation country informed. Recently, CAPOC has come under criticism as several Iraqi insurgent groups have been taking credit for projects completed by CAPOC.

As you can see 10,000 soldiers have themselves busy performing duties which aren't how you perceive them.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by john124]

reply to post by john124


Re: bodies of US/Israeli's, I don't have the link now, but there were pictures on the net from news agencies, but then again as you pointed out the credibility of said services.

Why would Russia show anything to the EU? The EU is NATO, or a huge chunk of it. European Union???? Do you mean the UN?

Either way, your saying Russia is biased, and Georgia news are biased because they've got a one sided view, and only report basically on one foreign topic??? To take that argument, and apply it to the US media, and Iran you'd end up at the same conclusion; as the US media ignores the UN inspectors who say Iran is complying to the NPT.

I mention Iran because there are serious ties between Iran, and Russia; there is more than speculation that a war against one is a war against the other; as in the above time frame of the US/Israeli/British/French Naval Armada at the same time of said conflict last year in South Ossetia.

This brings us back to the relevance of the RT tv reports constantly reporting on the situation between Georgia, South Ossetia, and Russia. I'd have to wonder if they are trying to show the world the entire issue; so as to keep another war off the table.

If Russia is tied up in a war, then it clears the US/Israeli forces to go into Iran; adversely should Russia stop the firing of a war in Georgia, then it allows them to be vigilant for a war started with Iran.

Oh, I'm not "deluded" in my concepts, or news articles I source. I look at them all, and make my own decision to what happens.

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
reply to post by john124

 

Re: bodies of US/Israeli's, I don't have the link now, but there were pictures on the net from news agencies, but then again as you pointed out the credibility of said services.

Why would Russia show anything to the EU? The EU is NATO, or a huge chunk of it. European Union???? Do you mean the UN?

Either way, your saying Russia is biased, and Georgia news are biased because they've got a one sided view, and only report basically on one foreign topic??? To take that argument, and apply it to the US media, and Iran you'd end up at the same conclusion; as the US media ignores the UN inspectors who say Iran is complying to the NPT.

I mention Iran because there are serious ties between Iran, and Russia; there is more than speculation that a war against one is a war against the other; as in the above time frame of the US/Israeli/British/French Naval Armada at the same time of said conflict last year in South Ossetia.

This brings us back to the relevance of the RT tv reports constantly reporting on the situation between Georgia, South Ossetia, and Russia. I'd have to wonder if they are trying to show the world the entire issue; so as to keep another war off the table.

If Russia is tied up in a war, then it clears the US/Israeli forces to go into Iran; adversely should Russia stop the firing of a war in Georgia, then it allows them to be vigilant for a war started with Iran.

Oh, I'm not "deluded" in my concepts, or news articles I source. I look at them all, and make my own decision to what happens.

I have no doubt that you read them all, but that doesn't mean you understand and differentiate the propaganda and opinions from actual facts.

I'll start with Iran as the UN inspectors were not allowed in every facility, and it's obvious that the regime would not allow them to.

Russia Today had the S.Ossetian president accusing Israel, US, Ukraine and some NATO countries including Britain of being responsible for the genocide of S.Ossetian's.

He said them in that order as well and kept repeating it after the Russian girl reporter said are you sure about this? It's blatent shove it in your face tactics. It would help if evidence was provided with the claims.

EU monitors or UN would be fine and either or both should be allowed into S.Ossetia.

Anyway as you said there may be bigger issues at hand connecting together, but supposing that's true, then one will have to give to prevent the other, and eventually make the whole situation worse.